Thunder-shock Weapon (Artificer Battle Engineer t5)

[Ungermax]

Bug Report Number:

347356

Howdy

So I've just noticed that the entry on the above ability states it Trips the target and the target can make a STR or DEX save to negate the Trip...

STR and DEX saves are 5e D&D saving throws and so we do not use those, we are still using Fortitude, Will and Reflex.

I've not yet been able to test after noticing this as I'm only level 8 at the mo, has anyone noticed whether or not the Trip actually works?

Hopefully the entry will be clarified soon, bug reported

 

[The Blonde]

How Trip actually works right now is a hotly debated absolute mess.

 

[J1NG]

Trip and Improved Trip were tested to be a check vs Reflex save in since the latest update on Wed. Prior to that, they were working against the highest of Strength or Dexterity + d20.

As for whether Thunder-Shock works as a normal Trip or not, I don't have someone I can go test that with at this time.

J1NG

 

[Ungermax]

How Trip actually works right now is a hotly debated absolute mess.

Indeed. The above attacks DC is 14 + Int mod + Half Artificer level + Sunder Bonus, so its kind of scaled like Improved Trip, but. If its a base Strength or Dex check that saves then great, although Trip itself states a Balance check. It's almost like each individual ability that uses either Trip or Sunder has its own recipe for the DC

 

[J1NG]

All the Balance checks that have been listed thus far for Trips and related attacks, have always been for it to get back up after being tripped. The only one I didn't check before the change in the recent update, was Fury of the Wild's (Core 4) burst trip effect. I've only tested that it does work after the update, so can't speak to how it worked before. But it too is Reflex Save based now and Balance to get back up if tripped.

Still trying to see if there's anyone with a spare slot I can fit in an Artificer to test that Thunder Shock, no luck just yet.

J1NG

:: edit ::
A family member had snuck an artififcer into their account roster and never told the rest of us. Anyway, just tested, it's vs Reflex save at this time. As this change was unannounced, we do not know if this was intentional or not. However, given the more reasonable limitations on the save vs the stat checks, this might be an intentional design choice. Since it lets players with Reflex (which may be super high and not heavy on Dex or Str) to be able to resist normally without giving immunities out to everyone. In higher Reaper difficulty runs and higher quest levels, this also would taper out quicker rather than basing vs the stats on enemies that were liekly into the hundreds (impossible to match).

Note, that with this change, you can roll a 1 and fail. I have not yet tested if No Fail on 1 would prevent a trip from happening however.

:: further edit ::
Just tried it on a No Fail on 1 Reflex character, and was able to confirm that if your Reflex is higher than the DC of the Trip attempt, you won't be Tripped when rolling a 1 with the No Fail ability.

 

[Ungermax]

All the Balance checks that have been listed thus far for Trips and related attacks, have always been for it to get back up after being tripped. The only one I didn't check before the change in the recent update, was Fury of the Wild's (Core 4) burst trip effect. I've only tested that it does work after the update, so can't speak to how it worked before. But it too is Reflex Save based now and Balance to get back up if tripped.

Still trying to see if there's anyone with a spare slot I can fit in an Artificer to test that Thunder Shock, no luck just yet.

J1NG

:: edit ::
A family member had snuck an artififcer into their account roster and never told the rest of us. Anyway, just tested, it's vs Reflex save at this time. As this change was unannounced, we do not know if this was intentional or not. However, given the more reasonable limitations on the save vs the stat checks, this might be an intentional design choice. Since it lets players with Reflex (which may be super high and not heavy on Dex or Str) to be able to resist normally without giving immunities out to everyone. In higher Reaper difficulty runs and higher quest levels, this also would taper out quicker rather than basing vs the stats on enemies that were liekly into the hundreds (impossible to match).

Note, that with this change, you can roll a 1 and fail. I have not yet tested if No Fail on 1 would prevent a trip from happening however.

:: further edit ::
Just tried it on a No Fail on 1 Reflex character, and was able to confirm that if your Reflex is higher than the DC of the Trip attempt, you won't be Tripped when rolling a 1 with the No Fail ability.

Thanks pal

 

[J1NG]

Currently it looks like any Trip appears to only trigger for a duration of 6 seconds, but you can make a Balance check and get up sooner. This particular point actually means it might be possible this change might not be intended.

Prior to the latest update, Trip could keep a target down so long as they failed their Balance checks constantly for a duration of 30 seconds.

J1NG

 

[Zvdegor]

Many times if I use Thunder-Shock or Shattered AOE shots while I moving, there is no additional trip/shatter effect at all.
If I am standing still it hapens.

 

[Ungermax]

To follow up. Im nearly 20, been using Thundershock a lot, and its been working fine for me. More often than not Im moving when I use it, but I tend to make sure I have hard targeted an enemy before I shoot as I think if the target moves or changes at the exact wrong time, it doesnt land, also bolts do sometimes disappear but I dont notice this anywhere near as much with a repeater as I did with Inquis.