Holy Presence

[Baahb3]

It has been 24 or so hours since my ask. No response from SSG, so let the Dufresne-ing begin.

Holy Presence is now: "While in your Exalted Angel Destiny Mantle, you gain 15% damage absorption to all Elemental (Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, Poison, Sonic) and Alignment (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic) damage."

Why was this changed? What is the reasoning why the healing aura was removed? We deserve a reason for this decision.

This post will continue and multiply until some response is given by SSG.

 

[Kyrr]

If you were to look around, you would be able to find the answer. It's not coming back, fortunately, as it provided TOO much passive healing. This was unbalanced from the start of the introduction of the revamp.

 

[JaynChar2019]

It has been 24 or so hours since my ask. No response from SSG, so let the Dufresne-ing begin.

Holy Presence is now: "While in your Exalted Angel Destiny Mantle, you gain 15% damage absorption to all Elemental (Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, Poison, Sonic) and Alignment (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic) damage."

Why was this changed? What is the reasoning why the healing aura was removed? We deserve a reason for this decision.

This post will continue and multiply until some response is given by SSG.

They made it exactly the same as the machrotechnic tree mantle.

 

[Baahb3]

I have been following Dev posts and I have not seen anything from them on why, only conjecture from the players. Please link your Dev post where they said this Kyrr.

 

[Kyrr]

20:00

 

[Baahb3]

Thank you for posting that Kyrr. I don't watch that stream, really ever. It would be nice if SSG actually said that here on the forums so it shows in Staff Tracker. If they had just posted the transcript of that in the Preview 1 thread, they could have avoided hundreds of posts.

 

[Baahb3]

I still don't agree with their reasoning. If they thought it was OP, why not change or tone down the aura instead of nuke it? They already moved it to T4, which makes it a 22 point investment (because they changed it to a 2 AP cost), much more difficult to justify than the 11 point cost that it is right now. That alone would get most of the dippers out of it, leaving it to the people that it was meant for.

 

[Baahb3]

I play a FvS that all she does is heal and buff. A little DoT damage from Divine Punishment here or there but no offensive casting. Is there a tree for this build? A basic, non niche build? Not anymore.

1d6 per level every 5 seconds is not going to get me to go into this tree with nothing else to look forward to.

The epic moment part for Cure spells is laughable, I don't even think I have a single target 'cure' spell anymore. Even more if I did, 20s every 5 minutes is not worth a 30+ point investment.

Would have to check Chain Cure's new usability but I already have enough AoE healing spells, and I don't think I could justify 30+ points for it.

 

[Lazuli]

Sentinel ED for more defenses.

 

[Tilomere]

They should nerf the BoH capstone to a standardized +1 max caster level total, causing heroic healing abilities to remain exactly that, and allowing epic healing abilities to fill the resulting void.

If that is still too much healing, we can cut spell power in half, and adjust the reaper penalty.

Saying you don't need epic healing abilities to heal in epic because your heroic abilities are overscaling and double counting epic levels is easily solved.

 

[JaynChar2019]

I still don't agree with their reasoning. If they thought it was OP, why not change or tone down the aura instead of nuke it? They already moved it to T4, which makes it a 22 point investment (because they changed it to a 2 AP cost), much more difficult to justify than the 11 point cost that it is right now. That alone would get most of the dippers out of it, leaving it to the people that it was meant for.

The real reason behind why they say it is over powered is because cake sales dropped because of EA and DB. This upset the CEO's as they don't make enough $$ already. SSG's new motto is "let them eat cake, figgy is the most expensive"

 

[Redoubt]

They have said:

"It was a little OP"

and

"The play patterns it created were not good."

In close to 150 pages of feedback, the devs have given no further explaination.

 

[Lazuli]

The real reason behind why they say it is over powered is because cake sales dropped because of EA and DB. This upset the CEO's as they don't make enough $$ already. SSG's new motto is "let them eat cake, figgy is the most expensive"

But how many pastels do people use? I have a lot accumulated because I almost never use them. In groups there is always someone who revives you. When alone, jibbers and a hireling parked at the entrance usually do the trick too. You retreat with jibbers out of the mobs' aggro, call the hire and tell him to resurrect you.

If the run really goes so wrong that you have repeated deaths that can't be solved by the hire, it's really worth restarting the quest than wasting time with cakes.

 

[JaynChar2019]

But how many pastels do people use? I have a lot accumulated because I almost never use them. In groups there is always someone who revives you. When alone, jibbers and a hireling parked at the entrance usually do the trick too. You retreat with jibbers out of the mobs' aggro, call the hire and tell him to resurrect you.

If the run really goes so wrong that you have repeated deaths that can't be solved by the hire, it's really worth restarting the quest than wasting time with cakes.

For peeps like you this may be the case, but for new players that solo with no hirelings and don't understand the game dynamics like more seasoned souls they are more likely to buy the cake when the pop up shows up. Also there is the dynamic of SEVERE lag. My husband, myself and all of our hirelings were way deep in strahd invitation to dinner tonight and all of sudden we and our hirelings (all clerics and FS's) are conveniently all killed at once due to said lag (new toons) that dont have jibbers or stones on yet. So there are many instances that cake sales happen for SSG. To say that I must be doing something wrong because I dont have jibbers and stones on every new toon is ludicrously elitest of you.

 

[Lazuli]

For peeps like you this may be the case, but for new players that solo with no hirelings and don't understand the game dynamics like more seasoned souls they are more likely to buy the cake when the pop up shows up. Also there is the dynamic of SEVERE lag. My husband, myself and all of our hirelings were way deep in strahd invitation to dinner tonight and all of sudden we and our hirelings (all clerics and FS's) are conveniently all killed at once due to said lag (new toons) that dont have jibbers or stones on yet. So there are many instances that cake sales happen for SSG. To say that I must be doing something wrong because I dont have jibbers and stones on every new toon is ludicrously elitest of you.

You have misunderstood. It wasn't a criticism of you or anyone in particular. If you need to use cakes that's okay, if someone chooses to buy them because they prefer it, that's okay too. I know whale-style veterans who choose to use them even though they have other alternatives because it is more comfortable for them and it means nothing to buy them. In that case it is also okay to buy them because it is their choice.

But what I don't believe is that globally the cake sale is so big that SSG needs to set up a conspiracy to protect it. I don't think the EA and DB nerfs are due to this, because to begin with I doubt that cake sales are that big globally. Many people have other options to spend cakes (you will have them later as you learn the tricks to resurrect without spending cakes, such as the hire parked at the entrance of the quest), but if you still decide to continue buying cakes it is ok, because it will be your choice. What I don't see is the conspiracy theory.

Deaths usually occur from spikes of damage or lag. These deaths are not prevented by an aura, not even that of the EA. DB, instead of avoiding deaths, rather encourages them, since on high difficulty approaching mobs is always risky, even if you use CC (it is enough for one or two to save for them to attack you).

No, I don't think these nerfs are due to the fact that cake sales have gone down, and as much as I think SSG handles the monetary aspect of this game terribly (there is a paywall on many things that shouldn't be there, there are things that could be selling in the store and they are not doing it), I do not see a conspiracy to sell more cakes. Or they wouldn't have created jibbers in the first place. The cakes are those types of items that will always have a sale in the store, so it is a good idea to have them there, but they are not the type of items that need to be incentivized either.

 

[Baahb3]

I don't think there is a cake conspiracy here. As Lazuli pointed out, I don't think on a global scale, they would drive the needle like this. At least I hope not.

What I do have a problem with is SSGs continued approach to correct 'certain elements of play' by wrecking every other avenue of play along with what needed correcting. (A bit of hyperbole, but you get my point)

I am not the first to say that their adjustments are like taking a sledgehammer after an ant. It just does not make sense.

Getting rid of the healing aspect WILL NOT make for a more fun game.
Getting rId of the healing aspect WILL NOT get more new players to play this game.
Getting rid of the healing aspect WILL NOT stop people from soloing LN/LH raids.

What it will do is piss off your player base because once again you show us that if we are not playing the game how you think we should, it is wrong.

This change to Holy Presence is a clear example why people don't proselytize your game. I find it hilarious that after many hundreds of posts about how the changes coming in U66 are bad, that SSG wanted to know if we would recommend their game to others. I truly hope that they got a resounding NO back from everyone that took that survey.

 

[Lazuli]

Yes, Baahb, I also think that these nerfs are because we are not playing how they think we should play.

In any case, in recent years their design has become totally inconsistent. What seems good to them one day is the devil to them the next year. I would like them to stop being so weather vanes. For me, it is extremely annoying that the health of my builds is at the mercy of their whims.

 

[Tilomere]

Mantle procs are generally 1d6+6 no-save single target damage applied on a timer, and less for healing (because players have amplification and less hp than monsters).

1d6+6 applied on a timer is essentially Melf's Acid Arrow, a level 2 sorc/wiz spell. So the target for an ED mantle is to apply a level 2 spell a few times over 5 seconds with spell casts.

EA mantle already applies fire/light a few times. In addition Holy presence fully heals all nearby targets, so applies Heal, a level 6 cleric spell to an unlimited number of nearby allies, so is essentially auto-casting Mass Heal, the most powerful cleric spell, a level 9 spell with extended cast time, automatically with no cast time or cost every 6 seconds.

The correct balance for Holy Presence would be for it to apply Close Wounds a level 2 cleric spell, randomly to one nearby ally, since it is already also already applying fire/light level 2 damage spells. For it to be passive, we make it the weaker level 2 cleric healing spell. Automatically applying close wounds when soloing would do 13 healing x 8 (spell power 700) * 3 (200 AMP) * 1.7 (crit) = 530 points of healing on tick would be fair and balanced.

I mean, think if all the other mantles had upgrades to cast the best matching level 9 spells automatically every 6 seconds, like mass hold, wail, meteor, multivial, mass regen, tactical detonation, etc. That would be overpowered, and that is what current EA mantle is. I'll take mantle upgrade of auto cast wail every six seconds for $200 Alex.

Ask for something balanced, like auto cast close wounds on a single target, and SSG will be more likely to give it to you.

 

[droid327]

20:00

"somewhat unpopular" LOL

Yeah they really have been obviously avoiding giving a real justification for it...which can only lead one to believe that they know its not really justifiable...

"Its a little OP" does not lead to the total nuking from orbit we see in U66, or the complete intransigence of the devs to compromise about it

 

[Scrag]

"somewhat unpopular" LOL

Yeah they really have been obviously avoiding giving a real justification for it...which can only lead one to believe that they know its not really justifiable...

"Its a little OP" does not lead to the total nuking from orbit we see in U66, or the complete intransigence of the devs to compromise about it

I think Til's explanation is thorough and self-evident.

I would also love to have a mass heal like that on a short timer! I will take wail on the same timer instead.