Update 63 Preview 2: Deck of Many Curses

[Aldbar DDO]

The more I look at this I'm coming to realize just how much this new system is going to impact the game.
Unfortunately it is becoming obvious to me that the path that this feature is curranty on, will inevitably end up in a disaster.
While I believe that there is hope for this to be absolutely awesome, at the current rate this is moving ahead with the plan to release this in update 63, I don't feel it is possible to make any major changes and get it back on track.

I made a suggestion after preview 1 that was something like this:

- Collect 12 of etch card to form a Card Case that starts with only the option to add cards to it
- Add any card to the Card Case and unlock a new random effect that can now be selected when using the Card Case with an item
- Any effect that you have unlocked in your Card Case is permanently unlocked, properly named and can be freely selected to use with an item
- The more cards you add to the case, the more options you will be able to select from when using the Card Case
- Add a random card called 'The Blank Card' that once unlocked will allow you to remove effects from items.

I'm sure that this can be improved on to the point of satisfaction, but not under pressure.
With proper communication between the community and the devas wile not under pressure to get it out by update 63, I believe that this can be transformed into something awesome. The way it is going now, this is going to be a train reck.

 

[Mordenkainen]

Question 1: Do the Major and Minor effects stack? Like +2 Major Charisma and +1 Minor Charisma = +3 Charisma total?

Question+ suggestion 2: I heard there will be some "ultra rare" cards. If so, could they be a "direct application" card and could they have some truly awesome additions such as +5 fortune to a main stat (Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha) ? Also make them three times as rare as a nebula?

 

[CBDunk]

So, to summarize;
If cleansing cards are available in the store for a high price -> Pay to Win
If cleansing cards are cheap in the store or otherwise common -> Power Creep
If cleansing cards are not easily available -> Unacceptable Grind

No matter what, people have a 'reason' to complain. Win!

 

[Elfishski]

Just one more bit of feedback I haven't seen in terms of game incentives...

I haven't tried them but the new quests better be AMAZING because with these cards/"curses" being applicable to each and every single item we've ever accrued and ever will accrue in the future means that the power-incentive to players will be strongly to run these quests endlessly, with a brief break to acquire a few items from new content, then back these quests on repeat, forever.

Is that the objective? It sounds like a recipe for burnout and lost retention.

 

[HoopleHead]

Question 1: Do the Major and Minor effects stack? Like +2 Major Charisma and +1 Minor Charisma = +3 Charisma total?


The only boosts that I think stack regardless of being same type is Reaper... I think that's because it's 'untyped'.... these would likely be like most other boosts.. in being that the largest of same type would apply.

 

[Ahpuch]

So, to summarize;
If cleansing cards are available in the store for a high price -> Pay to Win
If cleansing cards are cheap in the store or otherwise common -> Power Creep
If cleansing cards are not easily available -> Unacceptable Grind

No matter what, people have a 'reason' to complain. Win!

That is the math the leads us to the conclusion that maybe this is a bad idea. If every solution leads to an bad outcome perhaps the idea should be rethunk?

 

[HoopleHead]

That is the math the leads us to the conclusion that maybe this is a bad idea. If every solution leads to an bad outcome perhaps the idea should be rethunk?

nah... can't even BEGIN to count the number of people who only live to complain about anything/everything.

This isn't about being a 'bad idea'... this is about an idea that started out with a very real potential of trashing a players personal fav characters gear load-out on the hopes they might eek out a slight improvement.... with the cleanser option available.. anyone still complaining is simply saying "you haven't given me sufficient reason for my buy-in"..
.
That's just it... an offered new option doesn't require anyones buy-in.... but when an overwhelming majority had a problem with permanent potential consequences.. they DID listen... that counts for a lot.
.
Like it or not.. the player base tends to be the beta test group.... SSG needs us.. and so when we actually unify on something... they tend to listen.

 

[Contessor]

I must be missing something. Considering these are typed bonuses, this is nowhere near what I would consider powercreep. What is the most benefit you coould gain in actuality? +3 DC? I mean seriously reaper/mythic bonuses are way more power creep than this system. Having a way to remove curses makes it at least halfway usable by most. Having permanent curses with no removal makes it usable by only a select few that would bother farming new items. These arguments are getting so ridiculous. I swear people fight just to fight and attempt themselves to look like an authority on the internet forums . I mean I would favor a temporary buff curse over anything, I think that makes the most sense.I would love to see a system with both negative and poistive consequences but more extreme and the duration not permanent, but random based on the effect. I think this would be so much cooler and everyone could really utilize it. And if you get a really unlucky bad effect, well maybe its time to TR or play an alt.

 

[Mordenkainen]

I must be missing something. Considering these are typed bonuses, this is nowhere near what I would consider powercreep. What is the most benefit you coould gain in actuality? +3 DC? I mean seriously reaper/mythic bonuses are way more power creep than this system. Having a way to remove curses makes it at least halfway usable by most. Having permanent curses with no removal makes it usable by only a select few that would bother farming new items. These arguments are getting so ridiculous. I swear people fight just to fight and attempt themselves to look like an authority on the internet forums . I mean I would favor a temporary buff curse over anything, I think that makes the most sense.I would love to see a system with both negative and poistive consequences but more extreme and the duration not permanent, but random based on the effect. I think this would be so much cooler and everyone could really utilize it. And if you get a really unlucky bad effect, well maybe its time to TR or play an alt.

If you add everything up and there isn't another 'ultra rare' stat category then it's looking like a +5 DC increase to a standard build.

+5 DC is MEGA HUGE. Like REALLY HUGE.

The Deck of Many Curses will be absolutely MANDATORY when it comes out especially for content coming out after it.( so for 32+ level content it'll be required). Further, with additional gear dropping from level 34 level 36 level 38 and finally level 40 (in the year 2038) it just means for every piece of gear on every preceding and succeeding content you will need to run this over and over again.

The Devs do have a twisted sense of humour. For you see this truly is a "Deck of Many Curses", the mere existence of these cards means we are ALL CURSED to FOREVER REPEAT this content ....

 

[Fhrek]

That is the math the leads us to the conclusion that maybe this is a bad idea. If every solution leads to an bad outcome perhaps the idea should be rethunk?

The idea is good, the implementation is real bad....

Like others gears system before the ideia is promising, but is doomed to fail or be irrelevant for a major part of the playerbase because:

To hard to grind - alienate casuals and players with limited time to play
To easy to buy - pay to win
To convoluted/gatted by RNG - catering for a minority of players with too much freetime or DDO is a mean of life (stre.... cough cough... being shoked by Darth Vader MEME)

 

[rabidfox]

If you add everything up and there isn't another 'ultra rare' stat category then it's looking like a +5 DC increase to a standard build.

+5 DC is MEGA HUGE. Like REALLY HUGE.

+2 to stat (effectively +1 DC)
+1 typed spell dc
So that's +2 DCs not +5. Where are you getting +5?

 

[Ahpuch]

nah... can't even BEGIN to count the number of people who only live to complain about anything/everything.

This isn't about being a 'bad idea'... this is about an idea that started out with a very real potential of trashing a players personal fav characters gear load-out on the hopes they might eek out a slight improvement.... with the cleanser option available.. anyone still complaining is simply saying "you haven't given me sufficient reason for my buy-in"..
.
That's just it... an offered new option doesn't require anyones buy-in.... but when an overwhelming majority had a problem with permanent potential consequences.. they DID listen... that counts for a lot.
.
Like it or not.. the player base tends to be the beta test group.... SSG needs us.. and so when we actually unify on something... they tend to listen.

I hear what you are saying but when people have grinded for dozen of cleansers and recursed repeatedly and still not got what they like they will complain. Just like they complained during preview 1 when they couldn't remove the curse and might get stuck with an item that was no worse than before. The only thing that made it worse was that their was no abbility to curse it in the hopes to make it better.

I think that as an idea the ability to get a nice bonus is fine if people are happy with that chance and willing to live with it. But they won't be. So what should be a nice small bonus is going to end up a point of contention. Every iteration of this idefa makes some sub group less happy it seems.

I hope I am wrong but experience here tells me that is unlikely...

 

[Mordenkainen]

+2 to stat (effectively +1 DC)
+1 typed spell dc
So that's +2 DCs not +5. Where are you getting +5?

It's +2 Spell DC, makes it +3 and the named "generalist DC" (if it's the same as attack/damage) that will be another +2 DC for grand total of +5 for certain categories. Cord talked about "ultra rare" cards... let's hope those don't exist.

 

[Tesrali (sam-u-r-eye)]

This is Dragontouched armor V2.0, repeating the same design mistakes 15 years later.

I still use my HAMP robes while leveling lol

 

[rabidfox]

It's +2 Spell DC, makes it +3 and the named "generalist DC" (if it's the same as attack/damage)

Got screenshots of both of these?

 

[CBDunk]

It's +2 Spell DC

No... it isn't.

There are +2 DC curses for rune arms, breath attacks, assassinate, et cetera... but for spells it is +1 DC.

, makes it +3 and the named "generalist DC" (if it's the same as attack/damage) that will be another +2 DC for grand total of +5 for certain categories.

I have no idea what you mean by 'generalist DC'.

Here is the list of known effects

I get 'Curse of Major Intelligence' + 'Curse of the Evoker' = +2 to int based evocation DCs maximum

 

[Tesrali (sam-u-r-eye)]

Dragontouched was a good system IMO.

 

[Fhrek]

Dragontouched was a good system IMO.

It became a good system after a bunch load of players feedback... initially it was hugely gatted by RNG, frustration and a great deal of hit and miss.

 

[seph1roth5]

So, to summarize;
If cleansing cards are available in the store for a high price -> Pay to Win
If cleansing cards are cheap in the store or otherwise common -> Power Creep
If cleansing cards are not easily available -> Unacceptable Grind

No matter what, people have a 'reason' to complain. Win!

No matter what it's going to be power creep. What changes is the amount of hours and luck it takes to get a small bonus. People grind jibbers and SoS and all sorts of stuff, we're used to that. But combining unrelenting grind (with nearly/impossible to get cleansers, if the drop rate is that low) with random just makes it exponentially more horrible. Imagine if all the named loot in two toed had the drop rate of Jibbers. So after hundreds of runs you FINALLY get...a coffin nail.

 

[CBDunk]

No matter what it's going to be power creep. What changes is the amount of hours and luck it takes to get a small bonus. People grind jibbers and SoS and all sorts of stuff, we're used to that. But combining unrelenting grind (with nearly/impossible to get cleansers, if the drop rate is that low) with random just makes it exponentially more horrible. Imagine if all the named loot in two toed had the drop rate of Jibbers. So after hundreds of runs you FINALLY get...a coffin nail.

In such case, I think it is clear that virtually everyone would conclude that... trying to get Coffin Nail is not worth it.

See, 'problem' solved.

Basically, yes they have made it virtually impossible to get the best curses on the best gear... to the point that it seems obviously not worth it. So... don't do that. Take whatever curses you can get on your best gear... maybe once in a blue moon use a cleansing card to try again... and then move on. Or apply curses to easy to acquire stuff like cannith blanks, which you can then sell if you don't like the curse or craft (and re-craft) once you get a curse you like.