Mob behavior changes I'm not thrilled with

[Blametroi]

No, I'm not asking for reversion to the old mob behavior pre red alert changes, but some things do annoy and require changes in tactics.

• Spiders in Arachnophobia no longer chase me so I can line them up and shoot them in the main hall. Pre U60, pull the switch, run, and range.
• The hobgoblins in Yarkuch's War-Plans with the final order no longer run down through the traps, and if one does the traps do not fire. Ranging the casters from below used to pull them. I'm assuming I won't be able to pull Yarkuch and his entourage down to the traps by the shrine in Yarkuch's Last Stand.

I didn't notice a problem in Home Sweet Sewer but I was on a slower toon and didn't do my usual one lap to grab all the dogs and run to the door.

Mostly just grumbling. Grumble mumble grumble.

 

[Steeme]

I'm with you mate.

Madstone Crater is a completely different experience now. The mobs no longer remained focused on you which makes it more difficult to keep attention away from the giants. The third giant used to be the easiest, just grab aggro from the perched mobs then block the tunnel. Now they seem to "give up" on you once losing LOS, and switch focus to the giant. With the first giant, I drew the 4 mobs away and parked myself behind the crystals - then they just "gave up" and made a bee-line for the giant even though he was invisible and they were never in range of him to acquire aggro in the first place (no reapers, no champs).

In general, melee is much more frustrating. Before, caster/ranged mobs would have a more deterministic "avoidance" mechanism, where they pick a new spot and commit to it. Now, they keep running around as long as you keep chasing them, unable to make up their minds (never satisfied with where they arrive). It has turned melee combat into more of a "do-si-do".

 

[CBDunk]

The one that has been getting me is the bit where ranged mobs will supposedly no longer change position constantly when you try to melee them. To me this actually seems to have gotten noticeably WORSE since the update. Used to be that they would run a short distance, stop and fire, run a short distance, stop and fire, et cetera. Now I have been in many fights where they just don't seem to stop moving at all. It is the difference between being able to melee them down during the intervals where they are stopped, and having to continually chase a spinning top to try to get in an occasional melee hit on the run.

 

[somenewnoob]

The one that has been getting me is the bit where ranged mobs will supposedly no longer change position constantly when you try to melee them. To me this actually seems to have gotten noticeably WORSE since the update. Used to be that they would run a short distance, stop and fire, run a short distance, stop and fire, et cetera. Now I have been in many fights where they just don't seem to stop moving at all. It is the difference between being able to melee them down during the intervals where they are stopped, and having to continually chase a spinning top to try to get in an occasional melee hit on the run.

I agree that the archer moving has gotten noticeably worse when you melee them. They move WAY MORE now. They don't move, stop, shoot, move, they move, move move.....a lot of times just keeping moving while you chase them.

I've also noticed very weird mob aggro range. Example of that is heroic ADQ the other day, the hall with the mephits and the traps. Aggrod the first mephit, and every single one in the entire hallway came running. Lot of complaints on the unicorns in dryad also, they snap back way too much now. The changes are a mess, just like we all knew they would be.

 

[Wizard]

The issue with ranged mobs running away MORE often seems like a bug to me?

Patch notes said they should move less often now to lessen the server load (less movement scripts activating).

Haven't done Madstone after changes but that would make the quest even more of a pain to solo. Solo unfriendly mechanics should no longer be in the game. The times where you almost always had a party are long over.

Ranging mobs and they are not following you at all in Tangleroot makes no sense either.

 

[Fhrek]

Someone else noted that Famine Reapers are much more prone to engage in Melee rather than Spell/Ranged attacks?
Is really annoying because they keep teleporting to close combat instead of keeping distance.

 

[Rakehell]

Yeah, the archer (ranged) movements seem to be the opposite of what I thought was supposed to happen.

I haven't played any high population kobold caster quests recently to see if they are jumping around more of less than before, but I am curious.

 

[HoopleHead]

Something I find exceptionally irritating...
.
If I just shot something 6 times and did a ton of damage on something, but it's NOT quite dead yet.. it's not going to run at me just to run PAST without swinging, and then attack me from behind... that's just idiotic..
.
But I can have a mob in front of me, I hit a quickened Greater Color Spray, and the entire mob instantly side hops either left or right and completely evades the AOE..
.
... and then gathers back up and charges...
.
wait... wut?
.
have had it happen dozens of times...
.
Also... not being able to shoot something standing behind a stick or post... but it can stand there and unload on me...
.
Critters now using the terrain to evade being targeted... often travelling 5-6 times the needed distance just to stay out of LOS
.
But if it's in point blank range I can't target or hit it....
.

Tell me all these calcs aren't piling on the lag?

 

[paddymaxson]

The issue with ranged mobs running away MORE often seems like a bug to me?

Patch notes said they should move less often now to lessen the server load (less movement scripts activating).

Haven't done Madstone after changes but that would make the quest even more of a pain to solo. Solo unfriendly mechanics should no longer be in the game. The times where you almost always had a party are long over.

Ranging mobs and they are not following you at all in Tangleroot makes no sense either.

They seem to move more consistently on aggro now, which is super annoying when you first aggro them.

 

[Lyrin]

At first I thought it might just be me, but I can say with certainty mob ai is pretty janky and obnoxious.

Flame skulls have been the worst contenders. They pop off with a flame jet then bounce around constantly while I'm trying to hit them. They're almost as bad as bats.

 

[Thorntoe]

I have found that with archer mobs the best course is to not chase them.

They seem to have a directive to "get x distance away from target", but when you chase them they never achieve that and just keep running, often in zig zagging figure 8's.

I've also found that those same archers, if you don't chase them, will often run away, fire a shot, then run right back to you.

 

[somenewnoob]

I have found that with archer mobs the best course is to not chase them.

They seem to have a directive to "get x distance away from target", but when you chase them they never achieve that and just keep running, often in zig zagging figure 8's.

I've also found that those same archers, if you don't chase them, will often run away, fire a shot, then run right back to you.

Yeah but in high skull, waiting around for them to shoot at you and run back to you isn't really a very good option.

 

[vryxnr]

I haven't run Project Nemesis with these changes yet... but this does not bode well for getting Zulkis into position to laser him.

Normally there are 2 methods:

1: Pillars. You get his aggro and break line of sight with the room's pillars so he starts moving towards you to re-establish line of sight, and by doing so you can eventually finagle him onto the laser platform.

2: Invis-pull. This is traditionally much more reliable. You get his aggro, move to the platform and go stealth mode or cast invisibility on yourself, and he'll run directly to the spot you vanished from to investigate, bringing him into position right away.

Based on a few quick tests in various wilderness zones, it seems that invis pulling is no longer a reliable way to group up enemies. And if breaking line of sight causes them to de-aggro...

Given that Zulkis DDoors away instead of moving away to use his spells at range, it seems like these changes will make dealing with him much more frustrating and reliant on random pathing.

 

[somenewnoob]

I haven't run Project Nemesis with these changes yet... but this does not bode well for getting Zulkis into position to laser him.

Normally there are 2 methods:

1: Pillars. You get his aggro and break line of sight with the room's pillars so he starts moving towards you to re-establish line of sight, and by doing so you can eventually finagle him onto the laser platform.

2: Invis-pull. This is traditionally much more reliable. You get his aggro, move to the platform and go stealth mode or cast invisibility on yourself, and he'll run directly to the spot you vanished from to investigate, bringing him into position right away.

Based on a few quick tests in various wilderness zones, it seems that invis pulling is no longer a reliable way to group up enemies. And if breaking line of sight causes them to de-aggro...

Given that Zulkis DDoors away instead of moving away to use his spells at range, it seems like these changes will make dealing with him much more frustrating and reliant on random pathing.

Zulkis usually on DDs when meleed. Have run PN several times recently and no issues.

 

[Amorais]

Most annoying thing for me is mobs all seem to have been on intense physical training courses so can now run twice the speed they did before - which was already pretty fast. They can turn 180 degrees instantaneously and now constantly move around. Ranged mobs now run in circles at 50mph. Spectres are hilarious, they were already fast before, now they move around like a fast cranked silent movie villain.

 

[Fhrek]

now run twice the speed they did before

They now can run twice as fast and has the triple the reach.

Baffles me how all melee mobs can swing their weapons from 30ft away and yet make a successful hit. While players Ranged still missing or grazing

 

[Sophie The Cat Burglar]

Ranged adversaries are now very fast and mobile. Melee adversaries are faster and use the extra speed to rapidly flank. We get faster. They get faster. So on.

It may be time to create a speed spreadsheet and establish a speed ceiling for all adversaries and player character abilities rather than speeding things up every year because some guy wants to rush the dungeon 15 seconds faster than last year. I find current melee character combat speed crazy, exciting, and fun but the faster it gets, the less my hands can handle.

Ranged combat is still much easier than melee combat by a full magnitude. You developers should probably discuss that over some pizza and drinks.

 

[TedSandyman]

I think they're on crack.

 

[Col Kurtz]

The one that has been getting me is the bit where ranged mobs will supposedly no longer change position constantly when you try to melee them. To me this actually seems to have gotten noticeably WORSE since the update. Used to be that they would run a short distance, stop and fire, run a short distance, stop and fire, et cetera. Now I have been in many fights where they just don't seem to stop moving at all. It is the difference between being able to melee them down during the intervals where they are stopped, and having to continually chase a spinning top to try to get in an occasional melee hit on the run.

oh..this explains some of the reapers I've been having trouble with this week...some of them will circle you like they are playing musical chairs while hasted and cant find a chair to sit on....>makes them super hard to single target with ruin or ottos

 

[Dragnilar]

Just throwing my two cents in - monsters since U60 definitely run around MORE than before and as others have said, while playing melee, it is very annoying. It's like playing tag on the playground with weapons and/or claws (if you're playing a druid).

oh..this explains some of the reapers I've been having trouble with this week...some of them will circle you like they are playing musical chairs while hasted and cant find a chair to sit on....>makes them super hard to single target with ruin or ottos

Yeah, reapers have suddenly gone from spoopy hooded skellos that make vacuum cleaner/airplane noises to confused skellos.