Can we get just a lil' BAB progression in Legendaries? Please?

plantpower

plantpower

Member
Kessaran said:
Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger all will get 25 BAB if they are the dominant class. Cleric, FvS, Warlock, Wizard/Sorc (Eldritch Knight), Alchemist get it from their melee focused enhancement tree's as long as you meet the capstone requirement. There's really no reason you're not able to get max BAB with any melee build. If your build can't get there, that's the fault of your build and not the game.
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That's a lot of missing classes considering every class has at least one melee enhancement tree
 
Kessaran

Kessaran

Well-known member
FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted said:
so its my fault im not a pure class, eh?
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Kessaran said:
Dominant class meaning your primary focus of enhancements is that class. There's absolutely 0 logical reason your build would not take a T4/T5 or Core that would grant that class the missing BAB if split out. Even looking at something like pure FvS who'd land under 25 BAB, even as a Cha build it makes no sense not to take the Divine Power t5. And even if you chose not to do that your argument would STILL be invalid because .25 BAB would mean you'd need level 50 before you hit 25 BAB as a 20 FvS.


The point of those enhancements is to allow a wider variety of classes/splits/builds access to the max BAB. They encourage build diversity, and your point is moot because some of those split builds ARE the best melee builds. I will concede defeat on the capstone point, as the only class that requires a capstone to get max BAB is Warlock, the rest are either t5 or t4 enhancements. Apologies for the confusion.
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Reading is hard? I literally explained this already. This doesn't mean you need a pure class, it means your DOMINANT class needs to be one of the ones I listed.
plantpower said:
That's a lot of missing classes considering every class has at least one melee enhancement tree
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The only classes that don't get max BAB as pures or dominant classes are Artificer, Rogue, and Druid. Druid gets bonus stacking attack speed in wolf form. Rogue get's bonus stacking attack speed with quarterstaffs. Alchemist get's max BAB with core 3 of Vile Chemist. The other 2 classes I didn't mention are Monk and Bard. Monk get's it naturally with Flurry of Blows if using monk weapons. Bard get's it from Warchanter T4 core. Meaning effectively speaking the only class that loses out on the extra attack speed from 25 BAB is Artificer (because Wolf Druid/Rogue can get higher attack speed with their stacking attack speed bonuses). 1 class out of 15. I'm not entirely sure where the "lot of missing classes" are?
 
F

FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

Well-known member
Kessaran said:
Reading is hard? I literally explained this already. This doesn't mean you need a pure class, it means your DOMINANT class needs to be one of the ones I listed.
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in case you didnt know, people are entitled to their own opinions
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Drachmor

Well-known member
Kintaya said:
Fair. But with the requested .25 BAB per legendary level the most you can get is +1 bab if your current is .5 or .75.
But even if you get +1 per level - an additional 2 BAB won't really make that much of a difference to any build. I have over +100 to hit on a tank with 39 str, 20 bab and no accuracy gear right now. If I slot some str and accuracy, enter a quest and buff up - i can probably get past 150. Another +2 at those values is almost negligible. You don't need bab for feats at that point either. The only place I can see it making a difference is fusilades maybe.
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That's the thing - it really isn't for to-hit, it's for attack speed bonuses. An additional 2 BAB basically just pushes a lot more splits above that threshhold where they don't have to divert too much focus towards 25 BAB (like being pigeonholed into the DC mantle).
 
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Drachmor

Well-known member
Kessaran said:
But.. that wasn't an opinion? And the message you quoted and argued about is factually correct, and I proved it. Therefor how could your opinion differ from what is factually proven to be true and correct?
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Lol having a dominant class does not ensure you have max BAB. BAB is chosen on a per-class basis; if you are multiclass, your BAB may suffer.

Your claim "Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger all will get 25 BAB if they are the dominant class." is not factually proven to be true and correct.

Per the wiki: "Fractional BABs are rounded down to the nearest whole number. To calculate BAB of a multiclass character, first round down the total BAB for each class, then add numbers together." https://ddowiki.com/page/Base_Attack_Bonus
 
Kessaran

Kessaran

Well-known member
Drachmor said:
Lol having a dominant class does not ensure you have max BAB. BAB is chosen on a per-class basis; if you are multiclass, your BAB may suffer.

Your claim "Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger all will get 25 BAB if they are the dominant class." is not factually proven to be true and correct.

Per the wiki: "Fractional BABs are rounded down to the nearest whole number. To calculate BAB of a multiclass character, first round down the total BAB for each class, then add numbers together." https://ddowiki.com/page/Base_Attack_Bonus
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Ah, apologies. You found fault in my statement and I applaud you for that. But the overall argument remains the same. There are a total of 12 ways to get max BAB or a comparable Attack Speed bonus.There's 0 reason your build wouldn't incorporate the missing BAB in a split through some means. If your build wouldn't hit max BAB/Comparable Attack Speed, that's a fault of your build and not the availability of BAB in the game.
 
plantpower

plantpower

Member
Kessaran said:
The only classes that don't get max BAB as pures or dominant classes are Artificer, Rogue, and Druid. Druid gets bonus stacking attack speed in wolf form. Rogue get's bonus stacking attack speed with quarterstaffs. Alchemist get's max BAB with core 3 of Vile Chemist. The other 2 classes I didn't mention are Monk and Bard. Monk get's it naturally with Flurry of Blows if using monk weapons. Bard get's it from Warchanter T4 core. Meaning effectively speaking the only class that loses out on the extra attack speed from 25 BAB is Artificer (because Wolf Druid/Rogue can get higher attack speed with their stacking attack speed bonuses). 1 class out of 15. I'm not entirely sure where the "lot of missing classes" are?
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Druid and rogue are still missing full BAB, just because a specific combat style gets an attack speed bonus doesn't change that. Like you get even higher attack speed if you can endure the annoyance of hitting a tenser's scroll every minute (well, not as an animal druid), or multiclass with a full BAB class. And if you build something else like an assassin, you don't even get an attack speed bonus either.
 
Kessaran

Kessaran

Well-known member
plantpower said:
Druid and rogue are still missing full BAB, just because a specific combat style gets an attack speed bonus doesn't change that. Like you get even higher attack speed if you can endure the annoyance of hitting a tenser's scroll every minute (well, not as an animal druid), or multiclass with a full BAB class. And if you build something else like an assassin, you don't even get an attack speed bonus either.
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As I said, "comparable attack speed" because both of their respective attack speed increases from enhancement stack with alacrity/haste. And an assassin wouldn't need an attack speed bonus, their entire build point is to one shot things. Yet again boiling down to builds.
 
K

Kintaya

Active member
Drachmor said:
That's the thing - it really isn't for to-hit, it's for attack speed bonuses. An additional 2 BAB basically just pushes a lot more splits above that threshhold where they don't have to divert too much focus towards 25 BAB (like being pigeonholed into the DC mantle).
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I mean.... that's the design of 3.5 ruleset. There are classes that are intended to be less martially inclined than others. Hence Full, 3/4 and 1/2 BAB progression. Same as spellcasting progression: 9 levels, 6 levels, 4 levels, no levels. Different classes also have different spell slots per level (prepared or known).
By your logic we should be advancing those as well, and not just spellcaster level?
When you multiclass - you make a tradeoff: you lose some class features/bab progression/spell progression/etc and gain other benefits. And these other benefits hopefully provide enough of a justification for multiclassing. Otherwise you're either sniffing flowers (in which case you wouldn't be asking for more BAB), or you're doing something wrong.

A rogue doesn't attack as often as a fighter, but compensates that weakness with sneak attacks. There's plenty of options, as mentioned in the thread, on how to close some of these gaps that certain classes/builds have.

If you want more BAB - build a full BAB class/build. Otherwise accept less BAB, or figure out how to include one of the multitude of options for pseudo-full BAB (full bab gained via buff/enhancement/destiny).
 
plantpower

plantpower

Member
Kessaran said:
As I said, "comparable attack speed" because both of their respective attack speed increases from enhancement stack with alacrity/haste. And an assassin wouldn't need an attack speed bonus, their entire build point is to one shot things. Yet again boiling down to builds.
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Okay, that still doesn't change that the attack speed could be higher with full BAB. Ultimately it takes no build or skill to get full BAB, just buy stacks of tenser or divine power scrolls/clickies and remember to hit 3 buttons every minute. It's more of an annoyance check than a build check. If you're not doing this as these classes, you lose attack speed compared to what you could have, even if the attack speed is still higher than someone else's. There's other effects besides attack speed too, like druid tanks don't get full PRR from their armor unless they buff their BAB which is even more annoying when scrolls require dropping bear form for a moment.

And lol at your idea of an assassin. Yeah they get 1 button they can click that one shots up to 2 pieces of trash. There's a reason why trash is called trash. And then the rest of the tree is focused around sneak attack damage, the poison imbue, etc.

But putting BAB in legendary levels isn't really about the pure classes, it's that most multiclass splits lose a point of BAB and getting a BAB point at level 32 would offset that. Particularly since the bonuses to attack speed are not continuous but jump up at 20 and 25 BAB, so getting even 1 point of BAB for advancing into legendary levels makes a disproportionate difference.
 
rabidfox

rabidfox

The People's Champion
iirc BAB was capped out at 25 because fighters/full BAB setups complained about having to pop tensors constantly and it was a QoL change for them. Many ranged will cap out via the t5 in shiradi but not all of them want that t5 and melee builds may not want to be stuck in DC's mantle (for those that can't cap via their heroic trees). There's obviously more QoL to be found for non-full BAB builds; either with legendary levels offering more to it, longer lasting tensor scrolls, or more EDs giving ways to cap it. Constantly recasting tensor scrolls is just painful for anyone so QoL suggestions are a good thing.
 
Fulchrum

Fulchrum

Member
danzig138 said:
Lol

No

Shouldn't be any BAB increase beyond 20th level.
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We already get +5 BAB from the 10 Epic levels from 20 to 30. Personally, I think generic Epic and Legendary levels should progress both the character's ability to land physical attacks and any spellcasting ability they have, up to the established cap.
 
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