An expansion giveaway does not equal a discovery elixir

[Oliphant]

If you throw a party and everything's free, but you segregate the guests into unequal tiers, that's still lame imo. Just a w.a.g. but if you complain or feign disbelief at people complaining about this free stuff, you're probably not one of the big spenders keeping the game alive. Better to give nothing at all than give your most loyal customers these 1-hour loot boosts of all things.

 

[Fizban]

This is just an example of there is no way to satisfy all of the people no matter what you do.

For OP and those that are in agreement with him, I disagree with you. Anything that is offered is appreciated from my viewpoint. Thank you SSG.

 

[erethizon1]

So?

Why should it?

Feeling entitled at all?

I'm quite happy having something of value rather than nothing because I already own, and have played with for years, all the expansions.

It's brilliant that an expansion is being given to those that need it. Like FREEQUESTS, it's a significant value add to folks behind the curve in terms of accessing top tier quests and loot, and potentially may allow more players in these quests - that's only a good thing in my book.

The gesture from SSG to provide something to those of us who don't need the giveaway, is welcome. They didn't have to do anything here.

Plenty to moan about elsewhere. If you don't like the pot, don't take it.

Carry on...

The free expansion, life the free quests coupon, is awesome. I am very, very pleased to see SSG doing things like this and I hope they do it a lot more. I just want to see them also toss in a freebie for the people that own everything that will make people glad they bought everything rather than thinking they should reconsider whether it is wise to buy things in the future.

There is plenty of content. It's not hard to go a couple of years without an expansion or two (I only bought Isle of Dread of few months ago and didn't miss its absence at all). While I may personally find Otto's boxes to be completely worthless and will probably never use any loot elixirs no matter how many they give us, if those prizes make people glad they bought the expansions that will keep them doing so in the future and that benefits everyone.

 

[Oliphant]

This is just an example of there is no way to satisfy all of the people no matter what you do.

For OP and those that are in agreement with him, I disagree with you. Anything that is offered is apprciated from my viewpoint. Thank you SSG.

If you were a scientist hoping to prove your hypothesis, would offering 1-hour loot boosts and recording reactions prove anything? Of course not, obviously no one would be pleased by 1-hour loot boost.

 

[SquireZed]

The problem is that by setting it up as an alternative to a truly good giveaway, the part of the player base who SSG stands to lose the most from alienating gets the clearly worse option.

I don't personally care. I buy expansion packs and VIP to support DDO. I don't even play as much as I used to, though I've been doing more recently, but I have nostalgia for DDO (even though objectively some of that nostalgia is misplaced because I was a dumb kid and didn't evaluate things critically, though fortunately I do think DDO is improving with each update so I'm happy to keep supporting the game) and I have a pile of random junk I'll never use. I'll claim the discovery elixir and add it to a stack that lives forever in my bank alongside all the other suboptimal boost elixirs and forever FOMO'ed short term bonuses.

But I can also objectively see why people are upset about the obvious discrepancy in value between the two. Discovery elixirs historically have been bundle-ons for other much more desirable purchases (expansion packs, Improved Otto's Boxes) or rare rewards from gold spins. In a grand total of none of those places do they offer, in my opinion, any significant value add beyond being a nice gesture that someone probably had to spend way too much time implementing to axe when they realized that people don't care about it much.

I guess what frustrates me is that the people who are "defending" the elixir aren't actually defending the elixir, they're just trashing on people who aren't happy with the elixir which is pretty toxic. I haven't seen anyone say "I'm so glad *I'm* getting a discovery elixir for my .5 named items it will help me get." But I've seen a bunch of people just absolutely dump on people who are legitimately looking at the difference between the two and saying "Wait a second..." If you truly believe that a discovery elixir is worth an expansion pack, you are entitled to that opinion, but I've seen no one hold that position honestly and that would still be a subjective opinion, just like thinking the two aren't of equivalent value is a subjective opinion.

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

This is just an example of there is no way to satisfy all of the people no matter what you do.

For OP and those that are in agreement with him, I disagree with you. Anything that is offered is appreciated from my viewpoint. Thank you SSG.

Anything offered is not useful or appreciated. You can open up a game trade window and offer me a bunch of 10 PRR potions for free and I'm just going to put them on a mule, or usually now when I roll it on the gold roll, throw them away. I'm not carrying 10, 12, and 15 potions of the same effect that take up an inventory slot. I have consistently said that VIPs want to feel like they are appreciated. People who have bought all the expansions want to feel appreciated by the company we have supported for years. Granting a token potion that many of us find worthless makes it feel like our loyalty and support are taken for granted. That's why people get first class tickets on planes and book penthouses in hotels. You want to be taken care of. That's why hotels, airlines, and credit card companies offer reward clubs. Why are you complaining about something for free? Because I don't want the breath mint from the jar, I want a comped meal because I've been booking your hotel for a decade.

 

[Randomdude1223]

If you throw a party and everything's free, but you segregate the guests into unequal tiers, that's still lame imo. Just a w.a.g. but if you complain or feign disbelief at people complaining about this free stuff, you're probably not one of the big spenders keeping the game alive. Better to give nothing at all than give your most loyal customers these 1-hour loot boosts of all things.

Imagine a party where the punch is free, but the VIPs get an express lane to the bowl. It might seem unfair, but isn't it just smart hosting? The big spenders might keep the lights on, but even the wallflowers help fill the room. As for the loot boosts, think of them as party favors. Sure, they're not a five-course meal, but who says no to a free snack?

 

[Fizban]

If you were a scientist hoping to prove your hypothesis, would offering 1-hour loot boosts and recording reactions prove anything? Of course not, obviously no one would be pleased by 1-hour loot boost.

Overall, the point I'm making is that I pay to play DDO (i.e. VIP) and have been for 18 years. I could care less about a 1-hour discovery elixir or even a free give away of the lowest level of an expansion pact (I already have them all). If it were me DDO wouldn't be a free to play game anyway. I like for SSG to make money so that they can continue to enhance an MMO I like better than any other one.

 

[erethizon1]

Are you willing to wait months or even years to access the latest content? While it's true that some content is eventually given away for free to those who prefer not to spend money, this comes at the cost of a significant delay. Purchasing expansions not only grants immediate access but also additional perks. As for the discovery elixir pots, they may not be game-changing, but they're certainly not 100% useless as some suggest. They're free, after all. Comparing the benefits received by paying players to those who play for free seems unnecessary.

Am I personally willing to wait years for content? Yes. I have done it every time. It's only recently that I ever bought anything that wasn't on sale. I used to wait for content to not only make it into the store, but be on sale before I bought it. Waiting a couple of years for new content is nothing to me.

That said, my post was not about me. I am not the target market for this because I don't even consider buying expansions. I'm talking about the basic psychology of manipulating human behavior in the direction you want people to behave (which is a huge part of my profession). I want to make sure that people that actually pay for expansions are glad that they do and continue doing so without reservation. That is why I suggest the reward for people that own everything be good enough that people that pay for expansions are happy with it.

 

[Fizban]

Anything offered is not useful or appreciated. You can open up a game trade window and offer me a bunch of 10 PRR potions for free and I'm just going to put them on a mule, or usually now when I roll it on the gold roll, throw them away. I'm not carrying 10, 12, and 15 potions of the same effect that take up an inventory slot. I have consistently said that VIPs want to feel like they are appreciated. People who have bought all the expansions want to feel appreciated by the company we have supported for years. Granting a token potion that many of us find worthless makes it feel like our loyalty and support are taken for granted. That's why people get first class tickets on planes and book penthouses in hotels. You want to be taken care of. That's why hotels, airlines, and credit card companies offer reward clubs. Why are you complaining about something for free? Because I don't want the breath mint from the jar, I want a comped meal because I've been booking your hotel for a decade.

Are you confusing "The Year of the Dragon" with the upcoming VIP appreciation coming soon? I think that the VIP appreciation rollout proves that SSG values their paying customer/players.

 

[Randomdude1223]

Am I personally willing to wait years for content? Yes. I have done it every time. It's only recently that I ever bought anything that wasn't on sale. I used to wait for content to not only make it into the store, but be on sale before I bought it. Waiting a couple of years for new content is nothing to me.

That said, my post was not about me. I am not the target market for this because I don't even consider buying expansions. I'm talking about the basic psychology of manipulating human behavior in the direction you want people to behave (which is a huge part of my profession). I want to make sure that people that actually pay for expansions are glad that they do and continue doing so without reservation. That is why I suggest the reward for people that own everything be good enough that people that pay for expansions are happy with it.

You mentioned that SSG rewards patience, but I highlighted the immediate perks of purchasing an expansion. It seems you've sidestepped that point. While you discuss the nuances of influencing behavior—a commendable professional focus—this situation is straightforward. It's not about manipulation; it's a straightforward giveaway. When you purchase an expansion, you receive the promised content, and any additional giveaways are just a bonus, a token of goodwill from SSG. There's no need to overthink it; it's a simple act of appreciation.

 

[Dude]

Am I personally willing to wait years for content? Yes. I have done it every time. It's only recently that I ever bought anything that wasn't on sale. I used to wait for content to not only make it into the store, but be on sale before I bought it. Waiting a couple of years for new content is nothing to me.

That said, my post was not about me. I am not the target market for this because I don't even consider buying expansions. I'm talking about the basic psychology of manipulating human behavior in the direction you want people to behave (which is a huge part of my profession). I want to make sure that people that actually pay for expansions are glad that they do and continue doing so without reservation. That is why I suggest the reward for people that own everything be good enough that people that pay for expansions are happy with it.

I don't buy products for potential future rewards. I buy products to use them. If I happen to get something free down the line, that's just an added bonus.

 

[Nickodeamous]

I like to look at this mathematically. With no elixir, lets say I run 10 r1 quests in 60 minutes. I would have approximately 3.3 named items. Now, if I add a 10% elixir for that same timeframe, I would have 4.3, or 1 incremental item.

that 1 item is 300 sentient XP.

You are telling me that an Xpack is worth 300 sentient XP? lol. Although I think its nice that there is something, this is actually nothing for all of us that own everything.

Sure, RL and Sharn were recently 99 DDO points a piece, but what if all 5 or 6 choices were all 99 DDO points a piece? Lets say the total DDO point value is 500-600 if all those Xpacks are 99 DDO points. That's at least one 6 hour sovereign pot isn't it? I don't get it.

	no elixir	60 min elixir
mins	60	60
r1 quests	10	10
Named %	33%	43%
Named Items	3.3	4.3

 

[Oliphant]

Imagine a party where the punch is free, but the VIPs get an express lane to the bowl. It might seem unfair, but isn't it just smart hosting? The big spenders might keep the lights on, but even the wallflowers help fill the room. As for the loot boosts, think of them as party favors. Sure, they're not a five-course meal, but who says no to a free snack?

Example seems backwards since it's the folks that bought every expansion getting the 2nd tier treatment here. In your example VIPs are getting special treatment. Another way to think of this: having VIP subscriptions is a totally different subject.

I'm talking about throwing a party and treatment of your guests. You don't get to throw a party and not face the consequences of multi-tier treatment of your guests. If you throw a party and don't make enough food, you blew it, that's parties 101. Someone could always come in and bemoan the entitlement, blah blah blah but that's not how throwing parties works.

As a symbol of non-appreciation nothing would be preferred over 1-hour loot boost. Ties into a general theme of disappointment where the paying customers always have to bear the brunt of "financial responsibility" with supposedly valuable virtual fluff. Just be honest and offer nothing.

 

[Randomdude1223]

Example seems backwards since it's the folks that bought every expansion getting the 2nd tier treatment here. In your example VIPs are getting special treatment. Another way to think of this: having VIP subscriptions is a totally different subject.

I'm talking about throwing a party and treatment of your guests. You don't get to throw a party and not face the consequences of multi-tier treatment of your guests. If you throw a party and don't make enough food, you blew it, that's parties 101. Someone could always come in and bemoan the entitlement, blah blah blah but that's not how throwing parties works.

As a symbol of non-appreciation nothing would be preferred over 1-hour loot boost. Ties into a general theme of disappointment where the paying customers always have to bear the brunt of "financial responsibility" with supposedly valuable virtual fluff. Just be honest and offer nothing.

VIPs receiving additional perks and monthly giveaways is a gesture of gratitude. It’s important to recognize that ‘free’ means just that—no strings attached. If the offerings don’t appeal to you, it’s okay to pass them by. Providing free expansions to free-to-play users is a strategy to expand the community, not a slight to paying customers. There’s no exclusion here; VIPs enjoy their exclusive benefits while others get a taste. If the complimentary gifts aren’t to your liking, there’s no obligation to accept them. It’s all about adding value, not subtracting from it.

 

[Ostwind-Cannith]

you paid for access to the punchbowl while other guest is getting to it for free. however, as a sign of gratitude for your payment we'll give you a chance to get a cup that's 10% bigger, but only for an hour. gee, thanks.

 

[Randomdude1223]

you paid for access to the punchbowl while other guest is getting to it for free. however, as a sign of gratitude for your payment we'll give you a chance to get a cup that's 10% bigger, but only for an hour. gee, thanks.

Gaining immediate access to content and additional benefits from purchasing an expansion is not quite the same as someone who has waited years for a free code to finally experience it. It's not a fair comparison—the two experiences are worlds apart. The immediate access is a premium path, while the long wait is a testament to patience. Both have their merits, but they're hardly equivalent. It's like comparing a fast-track pass at an amusement park to a standard ticket; both get you on the rides, but one gets you there much faster.

 

[axel15810]

My 2 cents -

The elixir is obviously not meant to be equal compensation. It shouldn't be looked at from that viewpoint. It's just a small thank you, it's not an attempt at equal compensation for a previous purchase. It's unreasonable to expect that.

Also - even if you want to view it that way, I'd point out that most had these expansions for years before others who are just now getting it for free so the money you spent let you play it all that time while others didn't. That playtime is worth something. I imagine it was very worth the money for that reason for the majority of people who likely spent dozens and dozens of hours into Isle of Dread or other expansions already. It isn't reasonable to expect full compensation for a product you already spent so much time enjoying.

I guess if you bought the expansions for points in the store very recently, I can understand your frustration. But the expansion giveaway has been hinted at since Februrary when the year of the dragon info dropped.

Also those getting it free now are only getting the quest/raid/wilderness content, not anything else included in the market bundles like races, hirelings, tomes, teleport clicky and such.

 

[goddeathlive]

posters idea for a *forum bonus, endless bottle of rage exclusive did make me laugh!

 

[Oliphant]

The elixir is obviously not meant to be equal compensation. It shouldn't be looked at from that viewpoint. It's just a small thank you, it's not an attempt at equal compensation for a previous purchase. It's unreasonable to expect that.

Why? Seems perfectly reasonable to provide equal appreciation.