Make unholy avatar(PM enchantment) dispel deathward neg immunity by the love of Myrkul. Or make it like energy protection.

ChaoticNecromancer

Well-known member
Epic level Sorcerers can burn Efreets to ashes, alchemists also can bypass every form of immunity but a mere tier 3 spell, which any low level nobody can cast with a scroll can make the caster immune to as much necrotic energy as there is in the negative energy plane. That is nonsensical and makes playing as an PM, a chore. Dispel, Disjunction and etc takes an eternity to cast and the enemy just rebuffs himself. That spell is much better than higher tier elemental immunities, absorbing infinite amount of necrotic damage, compared to a spell which only absorbs caster level*12 points of damage.

Or at least make it like energy protection spells. With a finite amount of protection.
 
Upvote 4

J1NG

I can do things others can't...
This suggestion won't really work. Because by the logic of what you wrote, if enemies are rebuffing the moment they lose Deathward, making Deathward from Immunity to an ablative effect like Protection from Elements, will only mean they spam them once it's down again. And enemies have unlimited SP so they can do this forever.

The change however, will also impact on players, where a few hits from Enervation would drain it very quickly. So I would say the suggestion proposed as is, is more detrimental for players than of benefit.

A (slightly) better change, would be a huge cooldown on the spell itself for enemies, as this prevents spamming by enemies at that point, and casters can work on removing the protection instead (if they have the means).

J1NG
 

ChaoticNecromancer

Well-known member
f enemies are rebuffing the moment they lose Deathward, making Deathward from Immunity to an ablative effect like Protection from Elements,

Nope because you can quickly cast another spell. For example, negative energy burst + Necrotic Blast can hit the enemy faster than they rebuff.
 

droid327

Well-known member
I think the only problem here is mobs spamming buffs. Wiz already has the tools to deal with DW, they just need to work as intended/reasonably expected

I'd say add a Silence debuff to Dispel spells, with higher tier ones lasting longer. You're disrupting the Weave around them, it makes sense that it wouldn't instantly snap back. This would give you a window to do your nuking, and would also make Mordys Disjunction actually worth taking at L9.
 

ChaoticNecromancer

Well-known member
Disjunction worth using against traps for extra XP in some quests. But yes, in therms of removing buffs is worthless. and in P&P D&D, it can remove magic from magical items and artifacts.

"and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item. An item in a creature’s possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor’s Will save bonus, whichever is higher." https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm
 

Smokewolf

Well-known member
A better idea would be to prevent non-caster NPC's from self casting immunities in the first place. However, every other mob is a Champion, that comes equipped with death / neg immunities. (Thanks Dev's !)
 

droid327

Well-known member
A better idea would be to prevent non-caster NPC's from self casting immunities in the first place. However, every other mob is a Champion, that comes equipped with death / neg immunities. (Thanks Dev's !)
Death immunity i get, you don't want people just IKing all the champs same as trash mobs, or else what's the point

Blanket Neg immunity seems arbitrary, like they just used the Deathblock code and called it a day
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
You are fighting against windmills. These devs have a very narrow and limited vision of design, and anything that falls outside of that vision is consigned to oblivion.

Their vision is that the wizard should be a DC caster IK/CCer and nothing more. All spell dps, including negative spells, for the wizard should be more about flavor than effectiveness. I wish I was wrong about this, but these devs have repeatedly shown that they don't care about wizard problems outside of DC casting. What does it matter that there are more and more immunities and obstacles to IK and CC.

Dispels should be effective, and npcs should have larger cooldowns on certain spells. But this will never happen. Debuff spells, which are absolutely useless currently, should be able to affect bosses. Why do the only useful debuffs have to come from sources outside the class like epic weapons?

Spells that the devs have stolen from the wizard list, such as weird, time stop, evard's tentacles, and confusion, should be entered into this list to which they rightfully belong, even if they continue independently in their current sources. But not. The devs don't care about the versatility of the class whose strong point should be versatility.

If they haven't even bothered to create arcane tempest scrolls. The perk for spontaneous VIP casters? It works for them. The perk for prepared spell casters? It doesn't work, of course.

The devs don't care. They won't do anything. They've had years to do something. We have begged them during the ED pass to introduce some changes for non-specialist casters without bypass. They have done? Of course not, they didn't even deign to reply that they didn't want to do it.

They don't worry. That’s the reality. Wizards do not fall into its stereotypical, constrained, squared-off design. Wizards need a different plastyle that they don't approve of or understand.


edit: upvoted, but it won't help. The devs will ignore this topic. They always do it.
 

ChaoticNecromancer

Well-known member
Yep. Some people think that "but higher DC", well, damage works against every enemy. DC only against some.

And even if deathward immunity is changed to work like other immunities, Necromancers would't outdps sorc or alchemist.
 

Smokewolf

Well-known member
Death immunity i get, you don't want people just IKing all the champs same as trash mobs, or else what's the point

Blanket Neg immunity seems arbitrary, like they just used the Deathblock code and called it a day
That's why mobs have saves, and champs should have much better saves. Just not blanket immunities unless their "class" supports being able to self-buff. Even then, it should be dispellable, thus forcing the mob to choose between offense or recasting the immunities.

But like you said, the Dev's took the LAZY way out. Which is the same problem with gaming AI really, as good AI is too difficult for DDO. Rather, it's much easier to just have the NPC's cheat than to logicly engineer behaviors that are balanced vs. PVE. Which only leads to crazy min-maxing for players to be able to cope.

Hence, here we are today... With about a 1/4 to a 1/3 of all mobs in Epic (R5 +), content being immune to anything that isn't direct damage. Mind you, it wouldn't be nearly so bad if all the Epic DPS spells didn't have their max caster levels "Normalized" making them feel anything but Epic.

(Gets off soap box, and kicks it across the room while cursing loudly. Limps back to barstool to soak now swollen toe in whiskey. Later offering a "free" drink to a Dev who just wandered into the bar.)
 
Last edited:

Vish

Active member
necro is evil
therefore pale master is evil
evil isnt supposed to be in the game
therefore palemaster isnt supposed to be in the game

therefore
be happy you got anything
 

glass_jaws

Well-known member
The one that drives me the most nuts is enemies rebuffing Deathward while CCed. You finally get it off of them (thanks Magus mantle) and it immediately comes back up even though they are hard CCed. :-(
 

Xgya

Well-known member
Death immunity is OK. Neg immunity is nonsense.
Strangely enough, even after all these years, giants in Tor get the neg immunity but not the death immunity.
AFAIK, that's the only place in the game with mobs like that. (that and the bugged plant monsters in Thralls that heal from negative despite not being undead)
 

glass_jaws

Well-known member
I think the musk creepers in thralls are supposed to heal from negative actually. It seems to be based on the yellow musk creepers that turn stuff into zombies under the plants control.
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
I think the musk creepers in thralls are supposed to heal from negative actually. It seems to be based on the yellow musk creepers that turn stuff into zombies under the plants control.
Yes, It is not a bug. In pnp they heal with negative too. Not all mobs who heal with negative are undead. Nightmares, black unicorns, etc.
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
necro is evil
therefore pale master is evil
evil isnt supposed to be in the game
therefore palemaster isnt supposed to be in the game

therefore
be happy you got anything
necros we are not evil! We are the ultimate waste recyclers!

Jokes aside, the argument makes no sense. If necromancy had no meaning in the game, they would not have created the prestige, nor would they have created the DA. A necromancer can be neutral. And honestly in DDO the alignment is a mere decoration. Here there is no role playing or alignment impact beyond a few interactions at a numerical mechanical level
 

voenixa121

Well-known member
Would still be nice to be able to play a Wizard that's not a necromancer. But so would be playing a Sorcerer that's not an elemental blaster.
 

Smokewolf

Well-known member
Would still be nice to be able to play a Wizard that's not a necromancer. But so would be playing a Sorcerer that's not an elemental blaster.
Max Caster Levels (MCL) are set so pitifully low, that it makes playing a DPS Wizy in Epics (R5+) a non-starter. Sorcs share the same spells as Wizards and thus have similar issues. Though Sorcs can get above the MCL when they focus for it. While in a pinch, Sorcs can at least fall back on DC casting and, (in some ways) fare better, when geared for it. The signifigantly larger mana pool and faster casting make a huge difference in Reaper.

Side note: Virtually all heroic spells are garbage by Epics, really limiting viable builds. Which is the compounded result of past Sorcerer nerfs coming back to haunt us.
 

ChaoticNecromancer

Well-known member
evil isnt supposed to be in the game

I can play this game as a thiefling with a demoniac pact(warlock), I can play this game as a dark apostate, can literally become a demon with Fiendish Symbiosis(acolyte of the skin).
Would still be nice to be able to play a Wizard that's not a necromancer. But so would be playing a Sorcerer that's not an elemental blaster.

Well, you can also be a illusionist. I don't think that there is any R4+ viable Wiz builds that aren't Necro/Illusionist.
 
Top