Suggestion: improve warlock blast tracking

[rabidfox]

I've been knocking out a bunch of past lives, making notes of things I like/dislike with various builds, and what I think could use improvements. I find single target warlock blast shapes have poor speed/tracking where if a mob moves sideways slightly that it's easy for the blast to just fly past them (including the blast shape that's supposed to actively seek out a target). Meanwhile, the bounces on the chain shape feel really nice and are good at hitting the correct target (chain shape's initial attack before bouncing suffers the same slow movement speed and tracking issues as other blasts). It gets aggravating to me when the blasts just don't do anything with these shapes because they miss a bunch. If EB: focused, enervating shadow, and EB: chain could all use the same blast movement speed and tracking that the bounces from EB: chain use then it would it would feel a lot nicer to me, be more fun, and would remove the frustration of the blasts missing a bunch.

(This is similar to the issue I pointed out to Tonquin on the ED thread about chain healing not hitting targets)

edit: stunning blast too (this ability also takes a very long time to activate even with quicken turned on)

 

[Smokewolf]

Warlock Blasts were nerfed to be deliberately slower several years back. (Check the old forums) I'm doubtful that a rollback of this would be entertained, considering their justifications for doing it.

 

[rabidfox]

Warlock Blasts were nerfed to be deliberately slower several years back. (Check the old forums) I'm doubtful that a rollback of this would be entertained, considering their justifications for doing it.

I'm sure they had reasons at the time but unless it's because of performance issues for the servers then I just don't care much why given the current meta and game play. It's annoying when the blasts misses when solo. It's completely frustrating if someone is a kiting a mob and I can't hit them at all, I'll sometimes just stop attacking if using any of these shapes as there's little to zero point in trying. The devs recently revamped the damage scaling on the various blast shapes to try and make them more appealing to swap around; I hope they're equally open to making them feel nice on the tracking/landing of the blasts.

 

[Smokewolf]

If i recall correctly, making players miss was the point of the Nerf. Cause up to that point, Warlocks were all about Edritch spam.

Thought, I do agree that maybe it was taken a bit too far as I've seen mobs outrun the Blasts regularly. I'm sure you can figure out when this changed, by looking through the patch notes going back 5 + years. Thus narrow down the Dev's stated justification, so you can properly propose a strong counter argument.

-Smoke

 

[rabidfox]

With ranged/throwing/spells, I could easily hit these slow moving Kobolds. But these blasts move so slow it's meme worthy watching them all miss.

https://imgur.com/a/aAA0qx3

 

[DBZ]

And possible dc issues with the upcoming level cap and myth drannor saga they have problems

 

[Lazuli]

I agree, but I would say that Warlocks need a lot of changes.

One of the things I hate the most when playing warlocks is that blast makes it difficult to cast spells. I can't interrupt it when I want to cast a spell, it has to finish the sequence, and that sometimes compromises survival, in addition to being super annoying. While I like the class, this is one of the main reasons I never stay in warlock for long.

As you said, the targeting in some ways is undesirable (as well as that of black tentacles), I wish they improved it.

I like sonic warlock, but in epics the synergy of this pact with EDs is atrocious. It's also a bit discouraging that the past life of Energy criticals don’t work for them and that Perform is not a class skill (other Warlocks are better off investing in Spellcraft!)

Well, I could say more things, but I guess this is not the topic for that. If devs fixed the targeting and being able to cast spells fluently it would be great.

 

[Tonquin]

Warlock Blasts were nerfed to be deliberately slower several years back. (Check the old forums) I'm doubtful that a rollback of this would be entertained, considering their justifications for doing it.

I just took a look at the projectile speed for base Warlock Blast and it looks like since the class released actually it's stayed exactly the same. The last time the missile speed portion of Blast Attack 1 was modified, for example, was in 2015 shortly before the 2nd Lamannia preview for Warlocks initial debut. As far as other changes go, the base range for Warlock's Eldritch Blast was increased in mid-2020, which might be what you're thinking of?

If EB: focused, enervating shadow, and EB: chain could all use the same blast movement speed and tracking that the bounces from EB: chain use then it would it would feel a lot nicer to me, be more fun, and would remove the frustration of the blasts missing a bunch.

Fun fact about how Chain's bounces work - it doesn't actually send a projectile at all, it's faking it with clever VFX. That probably explains why it's so accurate, given that it can technically never miss

 

[Lazuli]

I just took a look at the projectile speed for base Warlock Blast and it looks like since the class released actually it's stayed exactly the same. The last time the missile speed portion of Blast Attack 1 was modified, for example, was in 2015 shortly before the 2nd Lamannia preview for Warlocks initial debut.

In truth, I don't remember you ever making that reduction. I think they feel slower because now they do less damage and take longer to kill, and above all, because somehow the targeting seems to be worse.

I don't think that you have made anything worse for this purpose, it may be the lag or some involuntary effect of another change, but it does feel that now the blasts are getting it right less than before.

Torquin, do you think casting spells more fluidly while blasting could be improved? It is very very very annoying to take so long to interrupt the blast.

 

[rabidfox]

Fun fact about how Chain's bounces work - it doesn't actually send a projectile at all, it's faking it with clever VFX. That probably explains why it's so accurate, given that it can technically never miss

That explains why I like the bounce part hahah

 

[Lazuli]

Fun fact about how Chain's bounces work - it doesn't actually send a projectile at all, it's faking it with clever VFX. That probably explains why it's so accurate, given that it can technically never miss

oh lol The things we players don't know.

But I love that it doesn't fail, it's how it should be and it doesn't feel like a waste.

We have faith in you to fix what is not working well! You are the best at that.

 

[Lotoc]

Fun fact about how Chain's bounces work - it doesn't actually send a projectile at all, it's faking it with clever VFX. That probably explains why it's so accurate, given that it can technically never miss

I always figured the chain portion of Chain Lightning and Chain Cure are similar, it's more like an explosion with a target limit behind the scenes isn't it?

 

[glass_jaws]

In truth, I don't remember you ever making that reduction. I think they feel slower because now they do less damage and take longer to kill, and above all, because somehow the targeting seems to be worse.

I don't think that you have made anything worse for this purpose, it may be the lag or some involuntary effect of another change, but it does feel that now the blasts are getting it right less than before.

Torquin, do you think casting spells more fluidly while blasting could be improved? It is very very very annoying to take so long to interrupt the blast.

Enemies move a lot more now as well which may factor into why it feels worse.

 

[glass_jaws]

With ranged/throwing/spells, I could easily hit these slow moving Kobolds. But these blasts move so slow it's meme worthy watching them all miss.

https://imgur.com/a/aAA0qx3

Feels like an old arcade mini game where you are shooting at ducks, etc moving sideways.

 

[radule]

I've played warlock for knocking out some racial past lives and plan to continue doing so in the future. I've accepted the initial eldritch blast projectile speed as a part of warlock gameplay, and have altered my playstyle to it. It's true that moving targets which are far away are hard to hit, and I'm not denying that. I usually line them up so that my initial target is running straight towards me, so that initial projectile can always hit it.

Also, for the people who are not aware of it, you can hit moving/invisible targets with eldiritch blast chain 'bounces' by first hitting stationary reapers who spawned near your target on reaper difficulty, or by first hitting breakables which are near your target on any difficulty.

 

[Smokewolf]

I just took a look at the projectile speed for base Warlock Blast and it looks like since the class released actually it's stayed exactly the same. The last time the missile speed portion of Blast Attack 1 was modified, for example, was in 2015 shortly before the 2nd Lamannia preview for Warlocks initial debut. As far as other changes go, the base range for Warlock's Eldritch Blast was increased in mid-2020, which might be what you're thinking of?

Fun fact about how Chain's bounces work - it doesn't actually send a projectile at all, it's faking it with clever VFX. That probably explains why it's so accurate, given that it can technically never miss

@Tonquin

Then it may of been back during its development period. (Yes, I've been around that long, and yeah i feel old.) I just recall the big stink that came from the unexpected change, people were throwing a fit over it.

Regardless, mobs can indeed outrun or side-step Eldritch-Blasts. Though in Heroics is isn't so much of a issue as mobs are slower. In Epics and Reaper content, it's down right hilarious how often it occurs.

Unless a fast mob is coming towards you, or is somewhat stationary. You can best bet that the mobs movement "across" your point of view maybe sufficient to out-run / out-turn the the Blasts. The farther out you are, the more likely it is to happen, as the time between firing and impact gives the mob more time to get out of the way.

This is similar to a sniper lead-firing on a moving target, only to misjudge the targets rate of travel, thus the projectile frequently hits behind the target. In short, the Blasts velocity is the culprit here. Keep in mind, that not all mobs move at a Kobalds speed, thus with faster mobs the problem gets worse.

I'd recommend...

* Increasing the projectile speed just above the amount seen for mobs in mid Reaper (R4 - R6).

* Have the Calc for the targeting, factor in the mobs current speed, not the games default run value for a Kobald.

* Add a small amount of homing so that Blast attempts to steer towards the target.

Cheers!
-Smoke

 

[droid327]

Fun fact about how Chain's bounces work - it doesn't actually send a projectile at all, it's faking it with clever VFX. That probably explains why it's so accurate, given that it can technically never miss

Well I doubt you'd consider making all projectile EBs hitscan like that

But maybe add some weak homing to Basic and Chain shapes? And then leave Shadow as strongly homing?

That'd still preserve the travel time and not make it guaranteed hit, but would help make strafing mobs not quite so impossible to hit at even medium range

 

[vryxnr]

This is one of the reasons I prefer cone shape. It's just a cone shaped AoE in front of you that hits everything within that cone. Yeah, you gotta get closer, so best have some good CC or defenses being that much closer to the danger, but (for me at least) it feels better than watching your attacks miss so dang much.

 

[DBZ]

Why i prefer circular aoe combos better with energy burst and less buggy then cone aoes

 

[rabidfox]

It's true that moving targets which are far away are hard to hit, and I'm not denying that.

I used the further away Kobolds in that video just because it was an easy to capture video of the slow blasts vs mobs moving sideways. But I personally have noticed lots of blast miss at close range because the mobs do a tiny side movement relative to the direction of the blast which gets old annoying. Like vryxnr, I find cone has the edge for actually hitting what I want since mobs can't sidestep its AoE.

But maybe add some weak homing to Basic and Chain shapes? And then leave Shadow as strongly homing?

Yeah, in order for them to be alternative to cone, they need to land on their targets. I love chain when it lands; when it hits, it's a fun great attack. I think basic and shadow's extra damage on bosses is a good reason to switch active blast shapes in combat, but only if the attacks will hit.

Shadow's current level of homing isn't enough and it'll still not hitting mobs that are moving in certain ways; maybe with faster movement speed for the blasts it'll fix everything; or maybe they all need homing added to them too and shadow could get a replacement to it's special homing mechanic like a "precise shot" style pass thru so that blast will only hit your target and not any mobs that get in the way of the shadow blast (which would be a very useful thing on an attack aimed a specific target).