Dino claw 15 or 17 ??

[jwukane]

Bug Report Number:

329542

Hi. Hopefully someone can confirm this for me. I do recognize ddo wiki is not always correct. I just am curious to why such a wildly popular crafting system would state stun sunder trip +15 enhancement , 17 in minor artifact. I slotted SUNDER and only got a 15 bump in my dino gloves minor artifact ( I do receive the extra strength= 15). The person responding to my report responded back saying basically pretty sure it's just 15 only. Is anyone getting 17 from the dino claw tactics? Is it only sunder that gives 15? Thanks for looking into it.

 

[J1NG]

Are you checking the actual Sunder ability's DC? Or checking the DC on abilities that use the Sunder DC increases?

As previous tests performed suggests that for Sunder and Improved Sunder (the actual Sunder abilities) they get the extra DC boost. Otherwise, you only get the basic 15 for anything that can be boosted by the Sunder DC increase.

J1NG

 

[jwukane]

Are you checking the actual Sunder ability's DC? Or checking the DC on abilities that use the Sunder DC increases?

As previous tests performed suggests that for Sunder and Improved Sunder (the actual Sunder abilities) they get the extra DC boost. Otherwise, you only get the basic 15 for anything that can be boosted by the Sunder DC increase.

J1NG

Appreciate the reply. I am looking at my Cower DC. Which only improves by 15. Actually took it out and just slotted a 16 sapphire. Would have been nice to get 17. I will look next time in game at the actual feat Sunder DC increase. Thanks again.

 

[The Blonde]

Are you checking the actual Sunder ability's DC? Or checking the DC on abilities that use the Sunder DC increases?

As previous tests performed suggests that for Sunder and Improved Sunder (the actual Sunder abilities) they get the extra DC boost. Otherwise, you only get the basic 15 for anything that can be boosted by the Sunder DC increase.

J1NG

I'm not sure I understand. Shouldn't Sunder, Improved Sunder, and Cower all get +17?

 

[Tonquin]

Hi. Hopefully someone can confirm this for me. I do recognize ddo wiki is not always correct. I just am curious to why such a wildly popular crafting system would state stun sunder trip +15 enhancement , 17 in minor artifact. I slotted SUNDER and only got a 15 bump in my dino gloves minor artifact ( I do receive the extra strength= 15). The person responding to my report responded back saying basically pretty sure it's just 15 only. Is anyone getting 17 from the dino claw tactics? Is it only sunder that gives 15? Thanks for looking into it.

For clarity, this augment is indeed meant to give +15 Sunder DCs, as stated by its in-game tooltip. Is there somewhere in game that's indicating +17? If so, please let me know so I can track down the misbehaving tooltip.

 

[rabidfox]

For clarity, this augment is indeed meant to give +15 Sunder DCs, as stated by its in-game tooltip. Is there somewhere in game that's indicating +17? If so, please let me know so I can track down the misbehaving tooltip.

I think just the wiki mentions the +17. I'm guessing because of stuff like stats (INT, etc.) will do +14 in normal dino and +15 in artifact because of ilevel scaling that people assumed other stuff might pop to the next bracket with similar scaling?

 

[J1NG]

I'm not sure I understand. Shouldn't Sunder, Improved Sunder, and Cower all get +17?

Only the abilities that have an "Improved" version get +2 more, so Improved Trip and Improved Sunder get the extra +2. Otherwise, the base increase to Trip or Sunder is +15.

Stun only gives +15 bonus to Stun, because there is no "Improved Stunning Attack" active attack to actually improve further on, unlike the other two.

J1NG

 

[J1NG]

For clarity, this augment is indeed meant to give +15 Sunder DCs, as stated by its in-game tooltip. Is there somewhere in game that's indicating +17? If so, please let me know so I can track down the misbehaving tooltip.

Not directly no. As said in above post, the "Improved" active attacks only those ones get +17.

J1NG

 

[Gavaleus]

For clarity, this augment is indeed meant to give +15 Sunder DCs, as stated by its in-game tooltip. Is there somewhere in game that's indicating +17? If so, please let me know so I can track down the misbehaving tooltip.

I was the original person to add the Minor Artifact values to the wiki. When Isle of Dread first came out, I put all the augments in a normal slot and a Minor Artifact slot to see what values would be increased and by how much.

I noticed that the effects log in the chat gives some additional info not listed in the descriptions:

• Equipping a Minor Artifact with a Claw:Trip augment in it, it states "+15 bonus to Trip DCs, +17 bonus to Improved Trip DCs"
• Equipping a Minor Artifact with a Claw:Sunder augment in it, it states "+15 bonus to Sunder DCs, +17 bonus to Improved Sunder DCs"
• Equipping a Minor Artifact with a Claw:Stunning augment in it, it states "+15 bonus to Stunning DCs" (there is no "Improved Stun" ability)
• Equipping a Minor Artifact with a Claw:Assassinate augment in it, it states "+17 bonus to Assassinate DCs"

So the effects log seems to imply that only Improved Trip and Improved Sunder would get a +17 bonus, and the normal versions would still get +15. To be fair, I didn't actually test if the Improved versions were truly getting the +17 bonus since I was preoccupied with testing other stuff at the time. I just relied on what the effects log was stating.

Unfortunately, it seems that someone has edited what I originally put on the wiki (https://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Dinosaur_Bone_crafting&oldid=532517) - they took out the 'Improved' parts and also said that Stunning gets +17, which it doesn't. Such is the nature of wikis. I can edit it back, though I suppose to be truly thorough this time I'd like to test if Improved Trip and Improved Sunder actually get the +17 bonus or if the effects log is wrong.

 

[Tonquin]

Not directly no. As said in above post, the "Improved" active attacks only those ones get +17.

J1NG

Wow, you're right, this absolutely is doing some funky stuff behind the scenes. To make matters more confusing, that "improved sunder DC" boost listed in your combat log isn't actually hooked up to anything. Both Sunder and Improved Sunder just use the regular ol' Sunder DC boosts. Why do we have a separate "improved sunder DC" that isn't hooked up? The truth is, I have no idea. I can clean it up from the combat log, though!

 

[Redgob]

AFAIR someone mentioned the bug long ago on Discord. Apparently, the augment is calculating DC of improved sunder based on the item it's slotted in or the player stats, instead of the augment value. And it's the same for Trip/Improved Trip augments. I guess no one tested it properly back then.

 

[Archaic]

I know Sunder has a use in an epic destiny but it seems it's more useful if you regularly utilize pets, hirelings, and summons or am I wrong?

 

[SpartanKiller13]

I know Sunder has a use in an epic destiny but it seems it's more useful if you regularly utilize pets, hirelings, and summons or am I wrong?

Also used in a few enhancement trees as well, such as KotC (T5 Holy Retribution) or RMM (T2 Might Slam) as well as some active attacks like Shred (Druid 3 Bear attack); but yeah it's not very common.

 

[Valerianus]

Wow, you're right, this absolutely is doing some funky stuff behind the scenes. To make matters more confusing, that "improved sunder DC" boost listed in your combat log isn't actually hooked up to anything. Both Sunder and Improved Sunder just use the regular ol' Sunder DC boosts. Why do we have a separate "improved sunder DC" that isn't hooked up? The truth is, I have no idea. I can clean it up from the combat log, though!

sorry maybe i am wrong and useless, and sorry if i am commenting just this funny funky hook thing, but these "behind the scenes" things are sooooo interesting

in my head it clicked a confused memory from the days of yore, iirc long time ago both sunder and trip had their improved versions feats with their own dc, not a general one....before modern special attacks and gear dc boosts...maybe even before enhancement trees were given the form they have now? i'm confused, but that would explain why a separate improved trip and improved sunder are there, even if hooked to nothing nowdays, but not an improved stunning one. relics of the past...that belongs in a museum (cit)

thank you for your fixes!