About the tumble changes, here's my take on it :D

[Winterburn]

I only found out about the experimental tumbling recently so I'm not too bothered with the new changes.

If it was up to me I would have made it a bit different. For starters I would have made the jump skill (only) determine how you tumble (jump score of 20 enables the jump forward and then roll animation, 30 jump would give you the side jump and roll animation and 40 into jump would give the backflip animation or whatever numbers that would be acceptable to the community). The tumble could be 8 sec cooldown but points into tumble would lower the cooldown, so 20 points would lower it to 6 sec, 30 points 4 sec and 40 points to 2 sec. That way ppl could not use it continously as before but if you play a character like a monk or rogue where you usually would put points into these skills you can still be and play a more acrobatic playstyle without it breaking immersion.

Like to hear from the community about my thought.

I should note that I have no experience of coding and such so I do get that this might be an undertaking that isn't on the table.

 

[Cordovan]

We are intending to take a further look at Tumble when time permits.

 

[Winterburn]

Sounds promising. Just want to say that my post wasn't really meant as a complaint, more a suggestion to how I would have liked it to be since then the points you spend into skills matter in a bigger way. With only some points spent you get a little more acrobatics and with more you can be full acrobatic which is nice for monks and rogues where let's say a barbarian should imo be somewhat acrobatic due to less armor and such. Heck even a wizard that gets lots of skill points could be acrobatic and as such get some avoidance from it.

I could add though that maybe only certain classes should be able to get the 2 sec cooldown on tumble like monk and rogue to add something to the whole acrobatic standpoint. But hey, I have played this game for 15+ years and I'm still here. That in it self should be an indication that I'm not unhappy with the directions the devs have taken the game into or unhappy with the changes. Just saying

 

[Yamani]

I just want a charge icon I can put on my hotbar even if its the skill icon for tumble. Just so I can see charges without having to block...

 

[Owlbear]

I don't understand why you would want to use the Jump skill when there is a Tumble skill

 

[Kraft Lorance]

Personally I'm really excited for the potential design space the tumble changes open up. I'm viewing patch 66 as them laying the infrastructure, and as long as they expand on it in a timely manor (or at least indicate that they're planning to do more with it) I'll be a happy lil kobold.

For starters I would have made the jump skill (only) determine how you tumble (jump score of 20 enables the jump forward and then roll animation, 30 jump would give you the side jump and roll animation and 40 into jump would give the backflip animation or whatever numbers that would be acceptable to the community).

I don't personally love the idea of Jump being roped into the Tumble animation. If it did happen, I wouldn't be mad, but it just doesn't jive with me personally- jump already has functionality.

The tumble could be 8 sec cooldown but points into tumble would lower the cooldown, so 20 points would lower it to 6 sec, 30 points 4 sec and 40 points to 2 sec.

I wouldn't mind a cooldown reduction being part of the iteration on this new tumble system. I think I'd like to peg it to one of the overlooked feats, personally. Either "Skill Focus (Tumble)" or "Acrobatic". In addition to the regular bonus to the relevant skill checks, one of them also reduces your Tumble recharge by [insert appropriate formula here].

Personally I'd lean more towards Skill Focus (Tumble) being the one, and it reducing cooldown by X for every 10 skill points spent on tumble, or reducing cooldown by X for every 10 character levels. But I'd settle for anything that makes unused feats be more appealing.

if you play a character like a monk or rogue where you usually would put points into these skills you can still be and play a more acrobatic playstyle without it breaking immersion.

Personally I don't think it should be locked to monk or rouge. I think it's fair/cool to give them extra cool things. But DDO (and D&D 3.5) is a system that thrives because it lets characters take cool elements of things and piecemeal them together à la carte. If and when a player is willing to make an investment, I think they should be able to use most of the system without being pigeonholed into multiple levels of a class they may not be interested in (be that a lack on mechanical or thematic interest.)

Like to hear from the community about my thought.

I also want items that interact with the system. Both directly through giving more charges (either through specific items, or through set bonuses.) And in more unique ways, by giving you alternative/expanded functionality. (And specifically I think some of the older, now outdated items that are otherwise useless should be given an occasional update to include Tumble interaction.

But like I said, I'm super excited about the potential this system has for future development. Your idea fulfills some of that want, and isn't technically exclusive with that I ultimately desire. So if they went with your idea it's be something I could learn to love.

 

[Winterburn]

As stated the jump skill is to determine how you tumble (if you just roll or jump and then roll), and the tumble skill to lower the cooldown of tumble. Since as it is today (if I'm not misstaken) you need points into both jump and tumble to get those animations. But a high jump should be enough to do that kind of tumble imo.

 

[Winterburn]

Personally I'm really excited for the potential design space the tumble changes open up. I'm viewing patch 66 as them laying the infrastructure, and as long as they expand on it in a timely manor (or at least indicate that they're planning to do more with it) I'll be a happy lil kobold.


I don't personally love the idea of Jump being roped into the Tumble animation. If it did happen, I wouldn't be mad, but it just doesn't jive with me personally- jump already has functionality.

I wouldn't mind a cooldown reduction being part of the iteration on this new tumble system. I think I'd like to peg it to one of the overlooked feats, personally. Either "Skill Focus (Tumble)" or "Acrobatic". In addition to the regular bonus to the relevant skill checks, one of them also reduces your Tumble recharge by [insert appropriate formula here].

Personally I'd lean more towards Skill Focus (Tumble) being the one, and it reducing cooldown by X for every 10 skill points spent on tumble, or reducing cooldown by X for every 10 character levels. But I'd settle for anything that makes unused feats be more appealing.


Personally I don't think it should be locked to monk or rouge. I think it's fair/cool to give them extra cool things. But DDO (and D&D 3.5) is a system that thrives because it lets characters take cool elements of things and piecemeal them together à la carte. If and when a player is willing to make an investment, I think they should be able to use most of the system without being pigeonholed into multiple levels of a class they may not be interested in (be that a lack on mechanical or thematic interest.)


I also want items that interact with the system. Both directly through giving more charges (either through specific items, or through set bonuses.) And in more unique ways, by giving you alternative/expanded functionality. (And specifically I think some of the older, now outdated items that are otherwise useless should be given an occasional update to include Tumble interaction.

But like I said, I'm super excited about the potential this system has for future development. Your idea fulfills some of that want, and isn't technically exclusive with that I ultimately desire. So if they went with your idea it's be something I could learn to love.

Hmm. I see that I havn't taken the lore and sourcematerial into consideration only the gameplay itself. I think what I stated has merits and I think what you and the others posting have merits too. If things stay the way they are or are changed in the future is fine by me, just wanted to express my thoughts on it and see what others said. Your feedback here was definately an eyeopener for me since i don't really think about the history this game has and that the game is an adaptation from a non videogame that has impact on what the devs would do to keep the game as close to the original as they can.

So thanks for that ;D

 

[ACJ97F]

We are intending to take a further look at Tumble when time permits.

Any option pending to get the hulk-pips out of our face? Between that, the cartoon traps, and the RA charge bar, it's getting silly.

 

[Willan]

I would like to duration of the tumble dodge buff to increase as you increase into the skill. With how bad the service has been with lag the past couple years, i don't think designing a defensive ability with a 1 second duration is very nice to the players.

 

[in4theride75]

I only found out about the experimental tumbling recently so I'm not too bothered with the new changes.

If it was up to me I would have made it a bit different. For starters I would have made the jump skill (only) determine how you tumble (jump score of 20 enables the jump forward and then roll animation, 30 jump would give you the side jump and roll animation and 40 into jump would give the backflip animation or whatever numbers that would be acceptable to the community). The tumble could be 8 sec cooldown but points into tumble would lower the cooldown, so 20 points would lower it to 6 sec, 30 points 4 sec and 40 points to 2 sec. That way ppl could not use it continously as before but if you play a character like a monk or rogue where you usually would put points into these skills you can still be and play a more acrobatic playstyle without it breaking immersion.

Like to hear from the community about my thought.

I should note that I have no experience of coding and such so I do get that this might be an undertaking that isn't on the table.

I like the utility of the new tumble but there are two minor issues that irk me. 1 is that it's too easy to accidentally use 2 charges of tumble. For example if you are holding W and A at the same time you will immediately use both charges. 2 is that it takes a really long time to get the charges back mid fight.

I left this feedback on the Lam forums but I figure I could leave it here too.
My suggestion on tumble was to add 3 charges by default and a 1 second cooldown per 10 points into tumble; 5 seconds maximum at tumble 50.

 

[Kawzen Arukkus]

I personally like the changes to tumble however having your charges on your character icon or somwhere on the screen would be beneficial.

 

[dur]

I only found out about the experimental tumbling recently so I'm not too bothered with the new changes.

If it was up to me I would have made it a bit different. For starters I would have made the jump skill (only) determine how you tumble (jump score of 20 enables the jump forward and then roll animation, 30 jump would give you the side jump and roll animation and 40 into jump would give the backflip animation or whatever numbers that would be acceptable to the community). The tumble could be 8 sec cooldown but points into tumble would lower the cooldown, so 20 points would lower it to 6 sec, 30 points 4 sec and 40 points to 2 sec. That way ppl could not use it continously as before but if you play a character like a monk or rogue where you usually would put points into these skills you can still be and play a more acrobatic playstyle without it breaking immersion.

Like to hear from the community about my thought.

I should note that I have no experience of coding and such so I do get that this might be an undertaking that isn't on the table.

Why wouldn't Jump have a cool-down then? And why are we breaking (imo) one core mechanic over all the others, again? ...you're not bothered with the changes.. to tumble? So.. you've never used tumble before while playing DDO?

We are intending to take a further look at Tumble when time permits.

You SSG radically changed a core attribute that a lot of us weren't "abusing" so we "didn't look silly?" Not buying it. We're killing monsters. It's clear there was some thought put into it, because stupid $%^&* pips, but why not Jump? Swim? UMD? Sneak? The new Tumble reeks - does it have it's own process ("proc") now too? Sorry to vent @ you, I appreciate the response.

I don't understand why you would want to use the Jump skill when there is a Tumble skill

IDK if this is sarcasm.. Tumble is evasive and Jump is.. get on that ledge. Tumble helps with fall damage, *jump didn't. dunno what tumble is now cause I'm taking more fall damage.

I would like to duration of the tumble dodge buff to increase as you increase into the skill. With how bad the service has been with lag the past couple years, i don't think designing a defensive ability with a 1 second duration is very nice to the players.

I would like tumble to go back to Tumble and WAI.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

Tumble was fine for ~15 years. I just don't understand why it needed to be experimented with in the first place.

 

[Frybri73]

Tumble was fine for ~15 years. I just don't understand why it needed to be experimented with in the first place.

They must have been in the army where the motto is "if it aint broke.. we'll break it" and the fix for the break will suck more than the break when they fixed it.

 

[dur]

They must have been in the army where the motto is "if it aint broke.. we'll break it" and the fix for the break will suck more than the break when they fixed it.

It reeks of.. not nepotism cause it's too hard to prove here.. certainly FAVORITISM with FOMO

 

[Winterburn]

Why wouldn't Jump have a cool-down then? And why are we breaking (imo) one core mechanic over all the others, again? ...you're not bothered with the changes.. to tumble? So.. you've never used tumble before while playing DDO?


You SSG radically changed a core attribute that a lot of us weren't "abusing" so we "didn't look silly?" Not buying it. We're killing monsters. It's clear there was some thought put into it, because stupid $%^&* pips, but why not Jump? Swim? UMD? Sneak? The new Tumble reeks - does it have it's own process ("proc") now too? Sorry to vent @ you, I appreciate the response.


IDK if this is sarcasm.. Tumble is evasive and Jump is.. get on that ledge. Tumble helps with fall damage, *jump didn't. dunno what tumble is now cause I'm taking more fall damage.


I would like tumble to go back to Tumble and WAI.

Just gonna reply here to the question about me never used tumble before. Offcourse i have used tumble before but not the experimental feature where you (if you klicked the little box) could tumble without first stopping and blocking if you were moving. That part i learned about just a few months ago (don't even know when it was added). So I have used that feature for a relativly short time and tbh I did like it but it wasn't a make or break feature for me. Do i dislike the change they made, maybe a little.....or maybe more the 8 sec cooldown to recharge. I think that is long and my suggestion would make it so you can shorten it. Do I agree with the statement that ppl just rolling around everywhere they are going could be immersion breaking.....yes and that is why i didn't suggest the cooldown be 1 sec or gone at 40 points into tumble. There is one thing to have certain characters (again like monk and rogues) be more acrobatic then others, but if you have the points to spend and want to you could be acrobatic on other characters as well and with the different levels of acrobatics posted in my suggestion you can have the game imo be more immersive.

Just thought of something else also about why not have jump on a cooldown. Because we don't have a stamina pool that gets depleted. If we had that (which I don't want added to this game btw) and you were using heavy armor and a shield and stuff you could maybe only jump every so often before your stamina ran out, but in this game you get penalized by how high and "far" you can jump instead och having charges. Tumbling though is a lot more "demanding" for a character in heavy armor and my suggestion would adress that pretty nicely too imo. Invest in the tumble skill to reduce the cooldown = that you have trained specifically in this skill so you can tumble more often. Just as training jump (aka putting points into jump) makes you able to jump higher but your armor gives you penalties making it more realistic.

 

[dur]

Just gonna reply here to the question about me never used tumble before. Offcourse i have used tumble before but not the experimental feature where you (if you klicked the little box) could tumble without first stopping and blocking if you were moving. That part i learned about just a few months ago (don't even know when it was added). So I have used that feature for a relativly short time and tbh I did like it but it wasn't a make or break feature for me.

I never used the experimental controls either. They changed tumble, the core function. It's a sick joke that the "Experimental Tumble Control" is still an option.

Do i dislike the change they made, maybe a little.....or maybe more the 8 sec cooldown to recharge. I think that is long and my suggestion would make it so you can shorten it.

8 seconds is ludicrous. The fact that it even has a cooldown, now, is substantial. What if Jump or UMD had a cooldown?'

Do I agree with the statement that ppl just rolling around everywhere they are going could be immersion breaking.....yes and that is why i didn't suggest the cooldown be 1 sec or gone at 40 points into tumble.

Any more immersion breaking than glowing/fiery wings? Just because people we're flying past you, or what? How was it immersion breaking? And then, why not just kill "experimental controls?" WHY ***** TUMBLE? If I have 30-40 points in tumble based on the "old" system, why do I still only have three $%^&* charges? Why did I even bother spending those points?

There is one thing to have certain characters (again like monk and rogues) be more acrobatic then others, but if you have the points to spend and want to you could be acrobatic on other characters as well and with the different levels of acrobatics posted in my suggestion you can have the game imo be more immersive.

Game was fine until they played with a CORE FEATURE. Well, and introduced moar *****.

Just thought of something else also about why not have jump on a cooldown. Because we don't have a stamina pool that gets depleted. If we had that (which I don't want added to this game btw) and you were using heavy armor and a shield and stuff you could maybe only jump every so often before your stamina ran out, but in this game you get penalized by how high and "far" you can jump instead och having charges. Tumbling though is a lot more "demanding" for a character in heavy armor and my suggestion would adress that pretty nicely too imo. Invest in the tumble skill to reduce the cooldown = that you have trained specifically in this skill so you can tumble more often. Just as training jump (aka putting points into jump) makes you able to jump higher but your armor gives you penalties making it more realistic.

OMG... Armor and (light-heavy) Shield display penalties.. Yes, let's change it all!

 

[seph1roth5]

I'd really like it if there were multiple tumbles, via a multiselector feat.

Combat tumble: 2~3 charges, ~6sec cooldown. Multiple ways to increase charges or decrease cooldown
Aesthetic Tumble: Classic tumble with a small speed bump to avoid the high speed devs want to kill. 0.5 sec cd or something should be more than enough.

 

[droid327]

I like the idea of points in Tumble reducing the cooldown....maybe like 1.25% per point, logarithmically?

So 1 point reduces it by 1.25% (-0.1 sec). 10 reduces it by 1.25% 10 times (-.95 sec). 40 reduces it to 3.9 sec recharge. 80 to 2.9 sec.