The Reaper XP problem

[nenetteblackmoor]

Multiple players get 40+ reaper points on a first life toon even in the shorter Hardcore leagues (~2 months).

If a given player "chooses" to run quests in a manner that is sub-optimal from an xp/rxp per minute manner, well... that's their choice.

Each person reaps the benefits and suffers the consequences according to their choices. If they don't like the consequences, they're free to choose differently.

Yeah, mm-hmm, that's impressive, isn't it?
I guess this thread probably isn't catering to those kinds of people, right?

 

[Kimbere]

Yeah, mm-hmm, that's impressive, isn't it?
I guess this thread probably isn't catering to those kinds of people, right?

You asked to consider it from the perspective of someone just starting in reaper. Sorry if you don't like the answer when provided with multiple, in-game examples of toons "just starting in reaper" being able to successfully do reaper.

Like it or not though, it's still the answer.

 

[DBZ]

Tons more rxp now then there ever was on year 1 and you can skip the worst massive slogs and grind the next life

Mines, slavers, market ones, eg and you don't have to live in amber on buddy bonus weekends

 

[ChaoticDrivel]

Nice book. There is no problem. Reaper is challenge mode and completely optional in every sense.

Technically, it is optional. Practically, if people want the most XP, power(some Reaper cores work even outside Reaper mode), and most importantly:

If people want to group with others in an MMO - a perfectly reasonable expectation - then they often have little choice but to play on Reaper mode.

The inability to do so(find groups) is a common complaint for DDO. You can observe innumerable examples of this on the interwebs, if you do your due diligence. And that doesn't take into account the great many people that silently stopped playing.

At this point - much of the playerbase has gotten comfortable doing R1 on Heroics, and even Epics. For whatever reason - Legendary R1 is a completely different ball game for a lot of folks. I've witnessed it time and time again, and its what prompted me to make this post.

To be clear: I don't think players should be entitled to have it all, without putting in some effort... But we are going on 7+ years now since Reaper mode was introduced. That plenty of players still feel like they can't participate, or make much headway with Reaper, I believe, is quite tragic. And you can add the Sentient weapon system, and the Deck of many Curses Buffs, as more systems that some players don't interact with at all.

If I were a developer, faced with such a reality - I would think I've failed in some regard, and would want to put it right.

 

[Ying]

That plenty of players still feel like they can't participate, or make much headway with Reaper, I believe, is quite tragic.

Self-limiting beliefs are tragic.

 

[ChaoticDrivel]

Self-limiting beliefs are tragic.

It's not merely about self-limitation. A lot of DDO players just don't have the ability to commit the same amount of time to the game as you or I. Or they just don't take it as seriously. And with that, comes less intimate knowledge of quests, builds, and so on...That doesn't mean they should be forever condemned to minimal forays into the many systems of DDO; some of which have been around for several years now, as mentioned already.

Though it's true that some players have totally given up hope of ever playing in Reaper mode. Or having a decked out Sentient weapon. Or raiding, Or grouping with others at all. Rather than scoffing at them and their ordeals, and just saying tough - I prefer to understand why they feel that way (because it is unfortunate that they're missing out), as well as look to what can be done to make it, at least, a little more aproachable.

 

[Kessaran]

It's not merely about self-limitation. A lot of DDO players just don't have the ability to commit the same amount of time to the game as you or I. Or they just don't take it as seriously. And with that, comes less intimate knowledge of quests, builds, and so on...That doesn't mean they should be forever condemned to minimal forays into the many systems of DDO; some of which have been around for several years now, as mentioned already.

Though it's true that some players have totally given up hope of ever playing in Reaper mode. Or having a decked out Sentient weapon. Or raiding, Or grouping with others at all. Rather than scoffing at them and their ordeals, and just saying tough - I prefer to understand why they feel that way (because it is unfortunate that they're missing out), as well as look to what can be done to make it, at least, a little more aproachable.

Reaper isn't supposed to be noob friendly content. It's supposed to be higher difficulty challenges for people. They aren't forced to quest with reaper runners, and they aren't missing out on the gameplay loop by not doing reaper.

Sentience in 0 way, shape, or form requires Reaper. it requires sentience exp, which can be farmed on normal/hard/elite. Learning quests/builds etc. takes time, which all the veteran players have already invested. We all started from scratch in this game. Just because it's been years doesn't mean that they don't have the exact same opportunities available to them that the rest of us did.

 

[ChaoticDrivel]

Reaper isn't supposed to be noob friendly content. It's supposed to be higher difficulty challenges for people. They aren't forced to quest with reaper runners, and they aren't missing out on the gameplay loop by not doing reaper.

Sentience in 0 way, shape, or form requires Reaper. it requires sentience exp, which can be farmed on normal/hard/elite. Learning quests/builds etc. takes time, which all the veteran players have already invested. We all started from scratch in this game. Just because it's been years doesn't mean that they don't have the exact same opportunities available to them that the rest of us did.

I never said it does. By bringing it up(Sentient weapons), I was just drawing a parallel with yet another system that is massively grindy, and set up in a way to be restrictive to those who aren't devoted to DDO.

And to answer your earlier comment...

There's no reason to farm it at 32, and if your complaint is that rexp isn't shared between characters that's purely your gameplay style and of course it will be punished. Most people farming reaper are doing so on 1-3 toons, and most of those toons have a plethora of past lives. My advice? Quit spreading out your toons so much and start focusing on specific toons. The game isn't about playing a single life toon and making an alt once it hits cap. It's about reincarnating to get stronger each life.

I think there's a pretty substantial reason to farm RXP at 32.

I don't believe that RXP should be account wide. And I feel the same way about Past Lives. This doesn't mean that other measures can't be taken though, to help people bridge the gap slightly.

And yes: people still clinging to an army of alts, can certainly be a hindrance to character progression in modern DDO. And it's fine to remind them of this. But if they find pleasure in using numerous characters - so be it.

 

[Kessaran]

I never said it does. By bringing it up(Sentient weapons), I was just drawing a parallel with yet another system that is massively grindy, and set up in a way to be restrictive to those who aren't devoted to DDO.

And to answer your earlier comment...


I think there's a pretty substantial reason to farm RXP at 32.

I don't believe that RXP should be account wide. And I feel the same way about Past Lives. This doesn't mean that other measures can't be taken though, to help people bridge the gap slightly.

And yes: people still clinging to an army of alts, can certainly be a hindrance to character progression in modern DDO. And it's fine to remind them of this. But if they find pleasure in using numerous characters - so be it.

I can understand your point, but at the same time there's hardly any reasoning behind coddling players who can't devote "enough" time to the game. I put that in quotations because it's a subjective point. 2 hours a day might be enough for someone, when 6 hours a day is enough for another. Grinds are meant to be grinds, obviously someone willing to devote 6 hours a day to that grind will pull very far ahead of someone only devoting 2 hours a day.

Farming RXP at 32 hastens the process, but also requires a higher investment/skill level. While you could farm R1 at 32, which is very viable, the point of my message was to highlight that you could get 80% of the way to wings without ever touching Epic/Legendary reaper content at all while grinding your PL's. Anything past level 20 on R1 or higher is pure extra rexp gained.


I agree entirely. Nothing wrong with wanting to make a new character for each build you want to play. That's the beauty of MMO's, you are certainly free to do so if you choose. My argument is that complaining about how difficult it is to feel "stronger" or "catch up" because people intentionally handicap their power creep by making new toons instead of focusing on a single/small amount is simply a joke. I also want to say I in no way believe you were doing this with this post. Simply stating my opinion

 

[Ying]

I prefer to understand why they feel that way (because it is unfortunate that they're missing out), as well as look to what can be done to make it, at least, a little more aproachable.

It's simple. The self-limiting belief is "I can't play reaper." Until those folks change the statement to ask "How can I play reaper?" they are never going to play reaper mode. It's all about attitude and mindset: You either control your beliefs or your beliefs control you. You or I can't change that, because it's an internal monologue we're not invited to participate in. They've self-selected to not participate in a game that's literally programmed to be beaten, even on R10.

 

[Kimbere]

It's not merely about self-limitation. A lot of DDO players just don't have the ability to commit the same amount of time to the game as you or I. Or they just don't take it as seriously. And with that, comes less intimate knowledge of quests, builds, and so on...That doesn't mean they should be forever condemned to minimal forays into the many systems of DDO; some of which have been around for several years now, as mentioned already.

Though it's true that some players have totally given up hope of ever playing in Reaper mode. Or having a decked out Sentient weapon. Or raiding, Or grouping with others at all. Rather than scoffing at them and their ordeals, and just saying tough - I prefer to understand why they feel that way (because it is unfortunate that they're missing out), as well as look to what can be done to make it, at least, a little more aproachable.

I understand now. It's a problem of unrealistic expectations combined with a sense of entitlement. Thanks for clearing that up.

The game applies the same mechanics and rules to everyone, thus everyone has the same opportunity to learn the game well enough to succeed in reaper difficulties.

If someone can't and/or won't put in the time and effort to learn the game well enough to do that, why should they be entitled to the same rewards as the people that could and did?

I mean, back in the day I wanted to play in the NBA and get a fat, 7-figure salary contract. I wasn't willing to live, eat, and breathe basketball from middle school onward though so it didn't work out. Do you think I should get a 7-figure salary from the NBA even though I didn't put the time and work in?

I'm happily married, have several enjoyable hobbies and other responsibilities require some of my time, thus I can't work 80 hours per week for months at a time. Do you think my employer should give me the same promotion and 15% pay raise as they gave a peer who did put 80 hours per week in for the past 6 months?

 

[ChaoticDrivel]

I can understand your point, but at the same time there's hardly any reasoning behind coddling players who can't devote "enough" time to the game. I put that in quotations because it's a subjective point. 2 hours a day might be enough for someone, when 6 hours a day is enough for another. Grinds are meant to be grinds, obviously someone willing to devote 6 hours a day to that grind will pull very far ahead of someone only devoting 2 hours a day.

Farming RXP at 32 hastens the process, but also requires a higher investment/skill level. While you could farm R1 at 32, which is very viable, the point of my message was to highlight that you could get 80% of the way to wings without ever touching Epic/Legendary reaper content at all while grinding your PL's. Anything past level 20 on R1 or higher is pure extra rexp gained.


I agree entirely. Nothing wrong with wanting to make a new character for each build you want to play. That's the beauty of MMO's, you are certainly free to do so if you choose. My argument is that complaining about how difficult it is to feel "stronger" or "catch up" because people intentionally handicap their power creep by making new toons instead of focusing on a single/small amount is simply a joke. I also want to say I in no way believe you were doing this with this post. Simply stating my opinion

Right on. It's about awareness too. This thread is full of handy tips from seasoned vets. Sadly - a lot of the players who could benefit from them, don't frequent the forums too much, or at all. But I know some do for sure.

As for "coddling" players...I think I just want people to have a good time. So when I see them struggling - like getting 1 or 2-hit killed on Legendary R1 by non-champion/non-reaper mobs - I feel for them. Hence: this thread.

Cheers, and good questing to you

 

[DBZ]

Tip 1 CC tell them learn it live it love it

 

[Kessaran]

Right on. It's about awareness too. This thread is full of handy tips from seasoned vets. Sadly - a lot of the players who could benefit from them, don't frequent the forums too much, or at all. But I know some do for sure.

As for "coddling" players...I think I just want people to have a good time. So when I see them struggling - like getting 1 or 2-hit killed on Legendary R1 by non-champion/non-reaper mobs - I feel for them. Hence: this thread.

Cheers, and good questing to you

My advice if you do happen to see that happen is to simply offer assistance designing a build for them. If they are getting 1-2 shot on R1 at any level then they are severely lacking in gear or did not prioritize their enhancements appropriately. If it's gear, help em farm some upgrades! If it's a build issue, plenty of people on each server that could help them out, even with just resetting trees and reallocation of AP.

Cheers mate!

 

[Kintaya]

Just throwing it out there: you can contribute to legendary R10s on a 1st life toon.

It's very much like Ying pointed out: if you want to start running reapers - you can start running reapers. If you want to start running raids - you can start running raids. Sometimes these things are just a question away: hey, i'm a low-PL/no gear player, how can i contribute in reaper/raid groups?

Build a tank. Every raid group wants a tank. A 1st life tank in feywild + chrono gear is very capable of even r1 raids. How do I know? We ran a mid-reaper 6-man PN with a 1st life tank doing just that.

Build a favored soul healer. Again, every raid will want a healer. First life FVS with NO RAID GEAR can get about 3k+ hp and around 600+ positive spellpower. How do I know? I made one for LD's 1st life raid challenge before they moved to Argo.

Build a ranged dps. You want to dps, but not be a soulstone most of the time? Go ranged. Let your melees pull aggro, then shoot what they're smacking. You're contributing, but generally staying out of harm's way.

Leave instakills for a bit later. While DPS can contribute even undergeared (just with a lot less effectiveness), instakilling is an all or nothing game. The mob either died or not. This requires you to be a bit more geared, have some PLs. But it's definitely doable even on non-completionist toons. And a lot easier to do on lower reaper difficulty.

If you're trying to run higher difficulty reaper - be prepared to die. It's not a question of if, but when and how often. Everybody dies on R10. Even the best of the best who can solo R10s on a good day. An invisible vengie circle, a missed fear reaper, a bad reaper spawn, poor dice rolls. Don't be afraid of failing. Just learn from mistakes.

Identify easier quests to bump up difficulty. As someone already pointed out - older content is often easier due to power creep. So maybe go a bit spicier than you usually run. If you run mostly elite - run Gianthold walkups on R1. It'll be a bit slower, you won't earn obnoxious amounts of RXP. You'd be surprised at how quickly you will accumulate RXP just slightly pushing the difficulty from R1 to R3/R4. You still won't see any of the advanced reapers. And the jump in RXP payout is much larger than the difficulty jump.

On the opposite hand: don't worry about lowering the difficulty of harder quests. Newer content is usually more difficult. And some quests in particular are more difficult than others. The game is a marathon (unless you want it to be a sprint). Don't assume that the only way to earn reaper points is through R10s.

Ask questions. There's plenty people on these forums who are very experienced in the game. Just from this thread I can name you 2 people that I've ran with personally, who are VERY good at this. And there's plenty others who I don't know. We all started at 0, just like you. We know what you're going through.

I might get some flak for this. But if you don't want to group up - bring a hireling. A healer hire will do wonders for helping you survive your initial foray into low reaper content. But grouping is obviously more efficient.

Maybe get a few important PLs before you dive in. Paladin, Barbarian and Ancient Blessing PLs can benefit any build.

In a similar fashion, a good race can help out a lot. While warforged have some nice immunities, they're not as easy to heal. On the other hand something like human will give you a free feat at level 1, and 20 healamp for 3 APs spent in racial tree.

Last but not least: don't be pressured into doing what you don't want to do. Play at your own pace. At the end of the day we all play DDO to have fun. For some of us fun is in the challenge of hardcore server, or r10s. For others it's all about raids. And yet for some a casual stroll through "hard" after a stressful day at work hits just the right spot.

 

[Col Kurtz]

the 1st time XP bonus in Reaper is the 1st problem

The OP players will almost NEVER do a group dungeon unless their near maxed on skulls. Multiple times I ask player's I have run with to join a lvl32 saga on r1-2 and they always refuse, quote ''waiting to do that saga on R8''

Basically, I have stopped considering joining higher skull groups that are posted. They would take me (my main character is pretty decent), but I'd get melted if I got stuck soloing a mob in r5-r10 at cap. I can perform well in a group at r3-r4 and join those groups/unfortunately, those groups I joined last year have progressed past r4 and don't usually post in lfm anymore.

Now I have been soloing r2 at cap comfortably last two lives. So, I am victim of my own progress. I won't join r1 groups on dungeons there's a 1st time bonus still available.

*Not here to post MY story, but it's a good example of the intricacy of grouping since we added Reaper.*

If the players with maxed trees and super OP builds wont step down a few skulls to help the masses get some of the power creep they already enjoy, then the player base will continue to shrink.

All these posters touting max reaper points cant get any more points. So, they just power lvl at R1 for past lives.

All these grouping macros with difficulty settings make for some pretty fickle players when pushed about their progress or mocked for having sub optimal builds.

Players that never Reaper usually get face stomped when they join low skull groups...and that's the exact reason I really don't want to start joining r8-r10 groups.

Not trying at this point to come up with a solution for grouping. Just offering some perspective to people who have been maxed for years and don't seem to remember that the path there is pretty murky for many players.

Thing is nobody want to just follow an OP group in a dungeon and collect XP's (unless its a dungeon they hate) It's like joining a football team and being relegated to being waterboy.

 

[DBZ]

1 good crowd controller can make r10s a cake walk shooting fish in a barrel

Any group of four can stomp r6

Theres more cc then ever now too chains, dl, dire charges

 

[Kintaya]

Thing is nobody want to just follow an OP group in a dungeon and collect XP's (unless its a dungeon they hate) It's like joining a football team and being relegated to being waterboy.

Hence my suggestion to bring a healer. Get one to cap on hard/elite/r1/whatever. Use friends, lfms, hirelings. Throw on some gear, and suddenly you aren't getting dragged around in R10s by an OP group. Your contributions are as large as any good dps or instakiller. And at around 3.5k hp on a 1st life FVS you will probably survive a random hit.

 

[Col Kurtz]

Hence my suggestion to bring a healer. Get one to cap on hard/elite/r1/whatever. Use friends, lfms, hirelings. Throw on some gear, and suddenly you aren't getting dragged around in R10s by an OP group. Your contributions are as large as any good dps or instakiller. And at around 3.5k hp on a 1st life FVS you will probably survive a random hit.

well, if reaper XP was account wide, I'd have done that years ago. I sighted my experience as an example, but I am Not interested in playing catch up.

My old pnp buddies have been playing again and I have been acclimating them to low skulls because elite is way too easy, and elite is near pointless at cap. We're just old dice tossers that have zero interest in maxing out difficulty.

I know these reaper threads are always like ''r10 on a 1st life is easy, come on in the water is fine'' ...but people are super deluded about what is FUN to others. Copy pasting top builds just to join in high skulls is not fun, its MMO Plagiarism; and farming that complete of a gear set in DDO without a group pretty much sucks.

I'm glad for others that have gotten there, but I am going to continue to just help my friends as well as the newbs I run into on my server that seem to have slipped through the cracks>Until DDO comes up with a better way to manipulate this system for the player base.

Account Wide reaper points is probably the solution/but, whatever ....that idea is old and the DDO story is past that point.

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

Last hardcore season when I placed in the top 25 on the reaper board, I hit nearly 30 reaper points simply by running R4. First-time bonuses and then alternating daily sagas. One can quite easily get to 30 reaper points by running R4s. Granted, there was a reaper XP bonus last hardcore season, but it's even easier on Live since you can die and easily jump into some R8-10s and pike some XP. Getting Reaper points has never been easier. I think this is a non-issue honestly, anyone with some motivation can start stacking reaper points rather comfortably.