Can we please stop putting Keen on end game weapons? Please?

I

Incompetent

Active member
With the Epic Feat overwhelming critical having a prerequisite of taking improved critical, having keen show up on weapons is just a waste of buff.

Just saw the new repeater from the 3 new quests. Its not a raid weapon, this i know, but if you don't raid, having your weapon be part of a set isn't a bad thing, except they added keen to it, instead of a prefix/suffix that will actually be beneficial.
 
rabidfox

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Keep bypasses all fortification on vorpal attacks too (so it has an effect beyond the crit range). Someone else can chime in if that mathematically matters or not.
 
Kessaran

Kessaran

Well-known member
Because we need Improved Critical for Overwhelming Critical, Keen becomes a nearly wasted stat. Most builds incorporate ways to get near/to 100% bypass anyway because crit ranges matter more than simply vorpals. I have to agree with the OP, Keen items really need to be reworked and they need to stop adding the current iteration of Keen to endgame items.

I'd love to see them change keen to +1W die and +1 multiplier on Vorpals. That would make it a comparable stat that might change the current meta of Dino Bone weps.
 
I

Incompetent

Active member
Kessaran said:
Because we need Improved Critical for Overwhelming Critical, Keen becomes a nearly wasted stat. Most builds incorporate ways to get near/to 100% bypass anyway because crit ranges matter more than simply vorpals. I have to agree with the OP, Keen items really need to be reworked and they need to stop adding the current iteration of Keen to endgame items.

I'd love to see them change keen to +1W die and +1 multiplier on Vorpals. That would make it a comparable stat that might change the current meta of Dino Bone weps.
Click to expand...
Exactly
 
saekee

saekee

long live ROGUE
If people swapped different weapons around for various situations at cap, it might make sense to have, say, a keen dagger swap for x situations when you have IC slashing and kukris. But at cap, who swaps, outside hitting rusties/oozes? So it is redundant with improved critical.
Devs sought to make it special by having it bypass fort on vorpal but at cap one should have high fort bypass.

Solution? Maybe make it drop a mob’s fortification by 50% (or something) on vorpal for X seconds (6?). So it creates a weak spot for a bit to everyone’s benefit.
 
FuzzyDuck81

FuzzyDuck81

Well-known member
The main times people benefit from it are when you're swapping weapon styles for certain situations, eg. a primarily tempest ranger who might want to pull out a bow occasionally. The complete fortification bypass on a vorpal strike is a great one though & is why it was paired with vorpal on a bunch of endgame weapons for those big hits.
 
Xaerxiessia

Xaerxiessia

Lost in Translation
Kessaran said:
Because we need Improved Critical for Overwhelming Critical, Keen becomes a nearly wasted stat. Most builds incorporate ways to get near/to 100% bypass anyway because crit ranges matter more than simply vorpals. I have to agree with the OP, Keen items really need to be reworked and they need to stop adding the current iteration of Keen to endgame items.

I'd love to see them change keen to +1W die and +1 multiplier on Vorpals. That would make it a comparable stat that might change the current meta of Dino Bone weps.
Click to expand...
Once upon a time , there was a scaled Keen.
There was Keen I
There was Keen II
There was Keen III
There was Keen IV
There was also Keen V
But they removed them ....
 
FuzzyDuck81

FuzzyDuck81

Well-known member
Xaerxiessia said:
Once upon a time , there was a scaled Keen.
There was Keen I
There was Keen II
There was Keen III
There was Keen IV
There was also Keen V
But they removed them ....
Click to expand...
IIRC the basic function of improving the critical profile was the same on all of them, but the scaled bit added some +W to the weapon & the Vorpal effect added +W too, so things like suulomades tail etc. with both were very hard to beat out. So, Vorpal was adjusted to a smaller +W plus a chunk of untyped damage on vorpal attacks (which still scales with basic/improved/superior & means you still get extra damage on things that aren't instakilled) & Keen was changed to have the basic improved criticals effect but added complete fortification bypass on vorpal strikes too, making it still have value even if you already possessed the improved critical feat for that weapon type & letting you score crits with all those tasty multipliers on undead, constructs etc.
 
Y

YeeboF

Well-known member
Kessaran said:
I'd love to see them change keen to +1W die and +1 multiplier on Vorpals. That would make it a comparable stat that might change the current meta of Dino Bone weps.
Click to expand...
Keen is very nice in low heroics. Many classes don't get improved crit until 12, and I am not sure anyone gets it before 9.

I would be fine with that change as long as they call it some different buff that doesn't prevent low level characters from having access to expanded crit range weapons.
 
seph1roth5

seph1roth5

Well-known member
There are a whole mess of effects that really need to stop showing up on gear.

Effects easily augmentable:
- Speed
- Feather Fall
- Immunity to Fear

Effects that are bad and the devs have acknowledged are bad/not working

- Guards
- Stat damage
- wands/other damage-type clickies that don't have some other utility (such as gust of wind for blowing away CC)

Effects that I hate seeing but not sure if other people care

- keen

It definitely needs to bring back different levels of keen, as the OP said, pretty much everyone takes improved crit, this is such a waste of an effect. Yeah yeah bypasses fort on a vorpal, not worth it. If it were bypass on crit? Sure. Or some other boost if you already have IC.
 
H

Hireling

Well-known member
Maybe adding some sort of % of Fort Bypass like Keen I II III IV V (based on levels) would make it more attractive.
On higher damage stat builds, I think Keen is one of the best DPS increasing modifiers on early game gear.
Specifically thinking about Sword of the Thirty (WF FVS) or a Carnifex, or a Keen scimitar etc.
It's a shame by level 9 or 12 it becomes a throw away modifier.
 
I

Incompetent

Active member
Impaqt said:
Isnt all random loot still pretty much junk? what would you like instead of keen?
Click to expand...
This wasn't random loot, it was a named repeater, that is part of a set. Keen as it stands, is mostly wasted, and I would much rather see a damage hit, or a proc of some kind.

Keen as it stands now does two things. First it increases your critical threat range. This is awesome. However it is the same thing as Improved critical feat, which i think most players playing either melee or ranged, (unless you have a leveling weapon set with keen on each of them) take every life, thus nullifying this buff out. The 2nd thing it does is bypass Fort on a Vorpal. At end game your ranged or melee toons should be built with some degree of fortification bypass thus nullifying the 2nd buff out. While leveling its strong. Its handy to have. At end game, not so much.
 
C

CBDunk

Well-known member
Keen on high level weapons is useful for some caster builds that use weapon attacks mostly as a way to get additional procs of things that scale with spell power (e.g. Primal Avatar mantle), and thus aren't likely to have Improved Critical.

Augmentable effects (which, at this point, is MOST effects) on items saves having to use an augment for them. CC 'guard' type effects (e.g. Freezing Ice Guard) can be extremely useful on tanks. Constitution damage is effective against everything except Purple Named bosses. Et cetera.

Yeah, there are a lot of things which aren't useful for a lot of builds... but there are also many many exceptions where the 'useless' thing is helpful.
 
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