All players should be able to open elite

cocopufff

Well-known member
I get the feeling this might be a hot take, but I'm going to post it anyway. The ability to open quests on Elite shouldn't be a feature of VIP, it should be something everyone can do from the get-go. Here's some of my reasons:

1. Power creep means Elite isn't the threat it used to be
As someone who played this game back in like 2013-2014, stopped, and then came back in 2023, there's been a LOT of power creep. And not just in high-tier gear. Things have gotten easier at pretty much every level, making it so that Elite is not the threat it once was. I frankly don't agree that new players need to be "protected" from that threat by forcing them to run normal/hard first (more on this later.) Sure, maybe they'll have to run normal/hard at low levels while they're getting the hang of things, but the game mechanics aren't actually that hard to get down (at least, to get down enough that you can run elite.)

2. Forcing repeats harms new player retention
This game is best enjoyed when you can run a variety of quests. The inability to open the quest on anything but normal kills your ability to do that. Either you end up grouping for literally everything (not viable with how many people play the game), you have a friend who can open for you (which most new players won't), you play the game on easy mode by doing normal the entire time (which, for most new players, they won't have enough quests to get away with this AND they miss 50% of the favor they could've gotten), or you end up having to play every quest three times every time. Which gets very tedious very quickly.

Shoving that repetition down people's throats if they don't buy VIP might sound like it's a good way to get them to buy it, but in my honest opinion, it's an even better way to get people to quit the game.

3. VIP doesn't actually benefit much from having it
Generally speaking, the people who are most likely to want to buy VIP are the ones who are invested in the game. The conundrum here is, the people who are invested in the game are also almost always going to have at least 2 past lives on whoever they're running, which makes this perk a total non-issue for a big majority of VIP players. Not to mention, epic levels just let you open elite regardless too. This means that this perk isn't actually adding much value for a TON of people on VIP. It's honestly a lose/lose situation, where the people who actually do buy VIP often don't get any benefit from it, but new players are basically shoehorned into buying VIP or else having the game end up feeling like much more of a slog.
It's an issue with VIP all around.

Since the quest pack has been given out so many times, most experienced players have all the adventures, meaning VIP is no help there, and most have unlock via TR, meaning VIP is no help there, either. VIP needs new benefits that help both these groups of people; therefore, there's no real need to leave this benefit locked to VIP. You could say, "It'll encourage new players to buy VIP!" But I honestly think that making a frustrating experience which you have to buy your way out of is just a recipe to lose players.

4. Helps new players experiment / catch up.
Giving opening privileges will vastly improve exp gains for new first life players. Being able to open elite gives bravery bonus they wouldn't previously have access to, which is huge, and doesn't require them to run normal/hard for inferior exp. *This is a good thing.* Allowing new players quicker access to higher levels is good because higher levels are more fun. You start getting better loot, the quests get more challenging, but you also get more powerful.

And better yet, if someone's build isn't coming together, there's less punishment for having to restart. The prospect of having to run your way through the normal + hard + elite of Korthos a second time was, when I played back in 2013, enough to make me stick with a sub-par build just because I didn't want to deal with it again. This game is EXTREMELY punishing if you make build mistakes because resetting skills, stats, and class levels requires very expensive premium items. Making it less punishing for players to restart is a really good step forward.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk =D
 
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Spook

Well-known member
I doubt they will do it but for what its worth I agree. Could even keep reaper locked for first lifers if they wanted but not being able to run elite on a first life is absurd from a gameplay point of view (but obviously not from a monetisation point of view)
 

Dude

Well-known member
So you want less value for VIP?

This whole "it scares away new players" thing would be a really solid argument if it was based on data instead of feels.

I was a new player about 2 years ago. I'm still here, I sub, I've bought all the expansions, and I'm having a great time.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
So you want less value for VIP?

This whole "it scares away new players" thing would be a really solid argument if it was based on data instead of feels.

I was a new player about 2 years ago. I'm still here, I sub, I've bought all the expansions, and I'm having a great time.
Yes. It's a bad look for a game that's designed around not having to be VIP and offering direct purchases of all content. Not selling a complete unlock of difficulty doesn't fit with the rest of the design; it's a throwback to the pre-f2p design (and the per quest unlock is just a predatory design). VIP should offer perks that make it worthwhile, but unlocks aren't perks, difficulty is a core game mechanic. They should make it free (or sell an accountwide unlock) and give VIP things to make it worthwhile without that.
 

Dude

Well-known member
Yes. It's a bad look for a game that's designed around not having to be VIP and offering direct purchases of all content. Not selling a complete unlock of difficulty doesn't fit with the rest of the design; it's a throwback to the pre-f2p design (and the per quest unlock is just a predatory design). VIP should offer perks that make it worthwhile, but unlocks aren't perks, difficulty is a core game mechanic. They should make it free (or sell an accountwide unlock) and give VIP things to make it worthwhile without that.
There should be incentives to become VIP. This seems like a pretty good one. I could see selling an account wide unlock, but it definitely shouldn't be given away for free.
 

Aelonwy

Well-known member
I don't mind elite open being a VIP perk... that is included in VIP like Shared Bank. But I would prefer an option to purchase Elite Open as a feature (not quest by quest nonsense) like Shared Bank or 32 point builds.

I don't think it will compete with subbing for HC because being VIP has the additional benefits of gold roll 1/week, the points, access to ALL non expansion quests, platinum vault, improved crafting storage, access to MM for those that do not purchase them and MM rewards get access to Astral Shards and Remnants for augments fairly swiftly.
 

Randomdude1223

Well-known member
If anyone can open elite difficulty, then that may decrease the value of DDO points in a non-direct way.

100 favors = 25 DDO points As a non-VP, you can easily farm that favor in like 30 minutes or even less on a freshly made character.

And if they remove the whole 100 favors = 25 free DDO points, then that will really harm those who can't spend much money on the game (me included). Also, opening Elite isn't that much of a big deal on live servers on Hardcore that's where it matters, and if it's strictly enforced through VIP, then I guess that adds more revenue to the game.
also a very specific scenario, but if you're premium or f2p and you're a few DDO points shy of a desired purchase, then you'd likely farm the favor quickly on a freshly made character rather than spend a few dollars to get some DDO points.

These are the only issues I could think of; otherwise, I agree 100% with your post.
 

Boondocks Mike

Well-known member
Anyone can open elite currently.

I do think new player retention should be one of the paramount concerns of the devs and the community but I don't think pushing them towards elite is useful or desirable.

Without having done any research on this my assumption is that there is easily enough XP in the game for a first life character to reach 20/32 only running normal with little repetition, it's merely a question of accessibility. If I had any control over the game I would be making sure that new players easily had enough access to content allowing them to reach level 20 only running normal on their first life.

People who play the game, myself included, definitely have a tendency to forget that there is a definite jump in difficulty between hard and elite. For a player with no gear, no past lives, and an un-developed sense of game systems and tactics, it's no doubt much harder. How is pushing people into what is reasonably likely to be a beatdown good for new player retention?
 
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PraetorPlato

Well-known member
also a very specific scenario, but if you're premium or f2p and you're a few DDO points shy of a desired purchase, then you'd likely farm the favor quickly on a freshly made character rather than spend a few dollars to get some DDO points.
If you have a third+ life character, it's likely easier to run a few new high level quests to get those points unless you've been sitting at cap for a very long time.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
If one is a 3rd+ there's little reason to keep VIP for the perk of opening. It's a perk I don't care about the majority of the time. Unless one runs new alts non-stop, it's just a VIP thing that quickly becomes meaningless outside HC. So it's not even a good perk for VIP IMO as it doesn't get me to subscribe.
 

Zuldar

Well-known member
So you want less value for VIP?

This whole "it scares away new players" thing would be a really solid argument if it was based on data instead of feels.

I was a new player about 2 years ago. I'm still here, I sub, I've bought all the expansions, and I'm having a great time.

That's only valuable during hardcore, you only need two TRs to make it obsolete anyway.

Personally, I'd like some actually good stuff for my VIP subscription instead, so I have no problem with this being the default.
 

Chai

Well-known member
You ned 2 PLs to open elite/reaper. What I used to do (and what I would still do if I gave a rip about the lawn mower simulator aspect of this game) is go to straight to 30 on first life, ER back to 20 (PL#1) then TR back to 1 (PL#2) - now you have 2 PLs and can open elite/reaper.
 

Fhrek

One Badge of Honor achieved
You ned 2 PLs to open elite/reaper. What I used to do (and what I would still do if I gave a rip about the lawn mower simulator aspect of this game) is go to straight to 30 on first life, ER back to 20 (PL#1) then TR back to 1 (PL#2) - now you have 2 PLs and can open elite/reaper.
That is a nice plan, but don't solve the Elite opening to alts.

So make it server account wide instead of character bound should solve the issue for alts. Which is a non-sense make an alt and have to run norm/hard before be able to open elites.
 

Chai

Well-known member
That is a nice plan, but don't solve the Elite opening to alts.

So make it server account wide instead of character bound should solve the issue for alts. Which is a non-sense make an alt and have to run norm/hard before be able to open elites.
It actually does solve it, unless you insist on your alts being first life forever, but that is a condition you are adding, not one inherent to the issue.

How much are you willing to pay for this? Since selling us the fix for every gripe was successfully lobbied in, the feedback culture has changed quite a bit. Are people willing to pay alot for this perk? Likely no, becase if they were, they'd just run a 10 USD/month VIP sub.

They could prove me wrong by just giving this to you as a QoL adjustment. But they already sell it as a QoL adjustment.
 
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