Change to Dungeon Alert

[Labuff]

Honestly, reading through this whole thread was depressing. It feels like we're all screaming in the void, hoping that it listens to us, but there is really nothing out there.

The fact that the devs barely ever answers the many replies, if at all, does not help those sentiments become lighter at all. From this whole thing, I'm honestly starting to share the feelings of the more pessimistic replies out there: This change was mainly made to squeeze out more money from us in a unfair way, rather than actually fix the issue at hand. Many solutions were proposed in this thread has been citated, but, is it really worth it to say anything, if your voice is ignored anyway ?


Dear devs, if you see this, please take it as a word of caution. You aren't in a financial, nor social position to become a "greddy dev". You are currently gaining money out of all this, yes, but it can easily change if you screw up too much.

You AREN'T too big to fail. And if you continue doing updates that favors squeezing out money out from the players, rathers than improving te experience, you WILL fail and close up shop. This is not what you want, this is not what we want.

 

[Batman]

Honestly, reading through this whole thread was depressing. It feels like we're all screaming in the void, hoping that it listens to us, but there is really nothing out there.

The fact that the devs barely ever answers the many replies, if at all, does not help those sentiments become lighter at all. From this whole thing, I'm honestly starting to share the feelings of the more pessimistic replies out there: This change was mainly made to squeeze out more money from us in a unfair way, rather than actually fix the issue at hand. Many solutions were proposed in this thread has been citated, but, is it really worth it to say anything, if your voice is ignored anyway ?


Dear devs, if you see this, please take it as a word of caution. You aren't in a financial, nor social position to become a "greddy dev". You are currently gaining money out of all this, yes, but it can easily change if you screw up too much.

You AREN'T too big to fail. And if you continue doing updates that favors squeezing out money out from the players, rathers than improving te experience, you WILL fail and close up shop. This is not what you want, this is not what we want.

Hey, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. It could legit be about the lag.

We'll find out shortly on what kind of solution they are going to propose on this issue.

Again, if it's all stick then this might've been a ploy to grab $$$ from us.

If it's mostly carrots then it could legitimately be about stopping lag and helping the game.

Negativity just begets more negativity. Let's hold off until we see what they are proposing!

 

[Labuff]

Hey, let's give them the benefit of the doubt. It could legit be about the lag.

We'll find out shortly on what kind of solution they are going to propose on this issue.

I just want to say, the reason i'm so negative about the whole debacle is because i have been massively jaded off, by seeing game companies over and over choosing over-greedness instead of actually making a decent product, mainly because their consumers allows them to do that with little to no financial punishment, and because rushing a product costs less than making a complete one.

Negativity just begets more negativity. Let's hold off until we see what they are proposing!

In other words, my own negativity is from the negativity of said game companies. As much as i want this MMO to grow, i always have this nagging feeling that they'll just become Turbine 2.0 and ruin the game for the sake of whale milk.

 

[Joanna Drecas]

Can we PLEASE remove this silly penalty, it does nothing to disincentivize zerging and accruing dungeon alert. Instead of buffing monsters, can we get an experience penalty for rousing the mobs? 5% for green and up to 20% exp penalty for raising red dungeon alert. Moreover reward players for never getting a dungeon alert with a 10% exp bonus. That ought to do it.
I remember way back in the day, when you died and cost the party 10% exp, this was enough for some people to avoid partying with weaker characters. If losing a 10% bonus hurt them that much, imagine being penalized for 20%?

 

[JaynChar2019]

Well I think if the changed favor to expire beyond a certain level say maybe five levels above the quest this may help to alleviate people zerging through quests that they don't want to play.

 

[The Narc]

Well I think if the changed favor to expire beyond a certain level say maybe five levels above the quest this may help to alleviate people zerging through quests that they don't want to play.

I dont understand where people think that it is overlevel people that zerg, i zerg thru quests on hardcore on a first life toon on reaper 2/3. The people that zerg in a mich faster mode then i do are not going to be affected by some sort of level cap. The problem is that there are way too many mobs i quests so people do t want to bother killing them as everyone has time constraints in real life. The devs are counting on these real life time constraints and are building the game this way to try and encourage to spend money to pay to win. The big problem with most peoples suggestions that making something harder will fix the problem is that the truly talented players will just find another solution while the mediocre players will now have an even steeper mountain to climb, the masses that are left in this game need to stop shooting yourself in the foot and stop supporting the motives of the current ideals of the devs and their boardroom profitteering changes. Stop buying ddo store stuff with real money until they start progressing the game in a positive direction.

They are so busy distracting you with changes like these that aggravate people that you miss little stealth nerfs not spoken about such as the time loop on sometyjing like the frostlight mantle which happens 1/3 of the time in comparison to a few weeks ago.

Anyone who has gamed with me in recent years knows i sum up the dev team and the boardroom decisions about this game with one single word!

SHADY!!!

 

[Lotoc]

Well I think if the changed favor to expire beyond a certain level say maybe five levels above the quest this may help to alleviate people zerging through quests that they don't want to play.

this is perhaps the worst suggestion I've seen anywhere ever.
Boy it sure would be fun being incapable of getting bank and inventory space because I didn't do enough coin lords and house K quests while leveling, especially on an Iconic.

Also I very much doubt people are rushing favor runs consistently enough to have a dire impact on overall server performance, it's the fact that people are red alerting while leveling or farming items/ reaper at endgame and the red alert effects aren't even strong enough to make it a bad idea.

 

[The_Apocalypse]

Yeah, all I can picture are quests like "An Offering of Blood" that pretty much are auto DA from beginning to end.

 

[Denis Iron]

Just give an extra 1-5% chance for named loot if you manage to reach aggression/conquest or give that specific objective more experience (people have been complaining about optional experience for years now, this would be a good start)

I don't need named loot 99.9% of all runs. So It is not the reason I will slow down myself. But I repeat - give a key from locked door to one randm enemy in the room and you will force the player to clear the room before go further - no rush, no mobs, no lags.

 

[Batman]

I'm beginning to agree with the more cynical players here, here's why:

1.) I just re-read the original post. They already made changes to DA by buffing monsters to be even harder on higher levels of DA. But, this makes absolutely no sense. It wouldn't even slowdown the "DA speedrunners" just annoy them a bit due to more HP of red nameds. (as for boss damage most speeders are ranged killers)

2.) There exists ways to make DA absolutely unacceptable and really take care of this behavior once and for all. Such as the key idea to advance through the dungeon or a flat out XP penalty for DA triggering. The fact they essentially made it so DA is still doable just a bit harder tells me they don't quite want to remove the behavior altogether but rather deliberately make it more challenging which supports the idea that this isn't really about lag.

3.) They immediately went negative. Try incentivizing or rewarding good behavior instead of just continuing to "nerf until the morale improves". Ideally you would want both. You , the dev, want to seriously just end people zerging through quests. Just simply add a -10% DA penalty for each level of DA and a +10% flat bonus for never triggering DA. It's pretty darn simple. The fact you're moving toward buffing monsters (adding more bad to an already bad and failed idea) is just very telling as to motive.

Anyway, this post got pretty negative but it had to be said. BUT, let's see SSG's next move on this matter before we throw away the keys.

 

[Labuff]

I'm beginning to agree with the more cynical players here, here's why:

Anyway, this post got pretty negative but it had to be said. BUT, let's see SSG's next move on this matter before we throw away the keys.

I came to the same conclusion myself, just, for different reasons than you. It does makes the bitter a little sweet, to know that i am not alone in those thoughts...

 

[Tronko]

I'm not a sociologist, but I think there's a sort of revolt going on...

Many players have capped their RXP, they are tired of piking, and now they want to feel useful. On the other hand, players who have always been at the forefront now find the game very trivial and when they play they want to complete as quickly as possible.

From my point of view, those who want to take it slow and feel useful (which is perfectly fine, of course) should post their LFM, specifying no zerg, no alert, need heals, need tank, whatever...

We have reached a point where some R10 raids are completed with just 2 players, while others require 4... Except for rare exceptions (THTH, Skelly... ) R10 raids are being pugged just like R1 raids used to be, with no barriers to entry and whoever shows up can join. And let's not even talk about quests.

In my opinion, over time, the difference in skill and know-how between players has surprisingly increased instead of decreasing.
But this, again in my opinion, is not a problem that can be solved with dungeon alerts.

When I started playing many many many years ago on Ghallanda, there was a guild called Omnipresence. When I saw some of them play, I was amazed. But gradually you learn, and if you have the desire, you improve. For me, the goal should always be to improve oneself, not to try to penalize those who are better.

 

[Bruhagar]

Perfect time to get rid of Gateway to Khyber

 

[Oxarhamar]

The idea of an Xp penalty for DA is not great there’s too many quests that are going to get DA without zerging

The Xp bonus for no DA is alright but runs into the same problem

There’s no reason for DA in any quest where players are not zerging & are clearing at they go if it’s happening when this is not the case then DA is broken

DA as a solution to lag is a bit problematic when DA itself causes lag

 

[Oxarhamar]

Perfect time to get rid of Gateway to Khyber

There’s no reason to get rid of that

 

[Batman]

The idea of an Xp penalty for DA is not great there’s too many quests that are going to get DA without zerging

The Xp bonus for no DA is alright but runs into the same problem

There’s no reason for DA in any quest where players are not zerging & are clearing at they go if it’s happening when this is not the case then DA is broken

DA as a solution to lag is a bit problematic when DA itself causes lag

They can easily flag those quests where DA is mandatory. For instance 'Offering of Blood' is literally a chase up the mountain to the end goal; DA is absolutely going to be triggered, can't avoid it ainfe there are endless monsters chasing you. In this instance any DA amount will not trigger a penalty but at the sametime no bonus.

 

[Batman]

I'm not a sociologist, but I think there's a sort of revolt going on...

Many players have capped their RXP, they are tired of piking, and now they want to feel useful. On the other hand, players who have always been at the forefront now find the game very trivial and when they play they want to complete as quickly as possible.

From my point of view, those who want to take it slow and feel useful (which is perfectly fine, of course) should post their LFM, specifying no zerg, no alert, need heals, need tank, whatever...

We have reached a point where some R10 raids are completed with just 2 players, while others require 4... Except for rare exceptions (THTH, Skelly... ) R10 raids are being pugged just like R1 raids used to be, with no barriers to entry and whoever shows up can join. And let's not even talk about quests.

In my opinion, over time, the difference in skill and know-how between players has surprisingly increased instead of decreasing.
But this, again in my opinion, is not a problem that can be solved with dungeon alerts.

When I started playing many many many years ago on Ghallanda, there was a guild called Omnipresence. When I saw some of them play, I was amazed. But gradually you learn, and if you have the desire, you improve. For me, the goal should always be to improve oneself, not to try to penalize those who are better.

This is a class balance issue rather than "player skill." Let's just say those 2 man R10 raids are NOT being done by melees...

 

[Tronko]

This is a class balance issue rather than "player skill." Let's just say those 2 man R10 raids are NOT being done by melees...

No? And who do you think would do the best DPS? A nuker? A ranged? ... Anyway, let's not get off-topic
Certainly, not everything is balanced, nor will it ever be, but in my experience, I see players playing the same build/gear/PLs/rxp and the results are light-years apart.

 

[Onyxia2016]

DA as a solution to lag is a bit problematic when DA itself causes lag

Don't say it like that or the forum police will flood the thread stating DA does not cause lag and it is just a warning.
You have to say it in a long drawn out way like "The events that lead up to a DA notification causes the lag".

There has been a lot of good discussion on this subject and some not so helpful. I find it best to take emotion out of the mix.
Focus on the issue at hand and then offer ideas that address the issue.

So the issue is aggro'ing large packs of mobs is causing a a huge spike in resource usage that is resulting in a game sync issues (a.k.a. lag).
Since we cannot see the server utilization stats we have to take SSG's word on this. No matter if you beleive it or not that is what we have to work with. Anything else is just speculation and serve no purpose in finding solutions.

The causes for this, outside some dungeon designs that everyone triggers an alert are:

• Players grinding favor. (Don't care about XP or Optional) just finish the quest.
• Players running XP pots just want to finish the quest to get the XP and move to the next before the pot runs out.

Any changes to reduce or make slowing down to do optional worth a boost in XP only addresses part of the issue.
Any thing done to slow things down (Like my earlier post of have a movement speed debuff) would address the favor grind but would cost the XP pot users real world money as they will burn through pots faster.

This not not a single fix that will address both causes. Since both have a speed component lets start with it.
Having a movement speed debuff that gets worse as the DA notices get higher. This will have to be combined with a carrot for the XP pot users so there pots are not diminished in value. I propose a much more substantial boost to XP for completing optional and/or the total number of kills. Make it so slowing down, killing everything and/or completing optional yield more XP than running multiple quest fast to the end.

As for the favor grinders there can also be a carrot. Have the max favor be higher if the DA notifications are not triggered.

If there is a compelling reason to pump the brakes players will do that. I doubt any of use run quests just to run them. There as to be a reward for the effort. Designed the reward around the desired behavior. In this case taking it slow.

 

[calouscaine]

by the by, when running some dungeons the alert kicks up as soon as you are noticed by mobs in some elite ran dungeons. . .not through any fault of the player, but simply because there are that many bats that drop down or the mobs are just that friggin numerous in the area. To be honest the system needs to be either fixed or removed.
Walking around a dungeon and running into one mob should not kick up the alert level to yellow or red instantly. But that is what is currently happening in some dungeons if ran on elite +.