Change to Dungeon Alert

[Onyxia2016]

by the by, when running some dungeons the alert kicks up as soon as you are noticed by mobs in some elite ran dungeons. . .not through any fault of the player, but simply because there are that many bats that drop down or the mobs are just that friggin numerous in the area. To be honest the system needs to be either fixed or removed.
Walking around a dungeon and running into one mob should not kick up the alert level to yellow or red instantly. But that is what is currently happening in some dungeons if ran on elite +.

This is very true. Some quests do need adjustments to eliminate no fault triggers.
I dont think a mass mob reduction in all quests needs to happen but when it triggers and alert straight way is not good.

 

[calouscaine]

I don't think there needs to be a reduction in mobs. I simply think the system needs adjusting or removal until it actually works the way it was intended.

 

[Peated Problems]

No? And who do you think would do the best DPS? A nuker? A ranged? ... Anyway, let's not get off-topic
Certainly, not everything is balanced, nor will it ever be, but in my experience, I see players playing the same build/gear/PLs/rxp and the results are light-years apart.

In fairness many players don't TRY to improve. They're content just running their quests and having fun as is - which is fine - but that divide will just widen over time.

 

[Labuff]

I don't think there needs to be a reduction in mobs. I simply think the system needs adjusting or removal until it actually works the way it was intended.

I do belive that there is a need to reduce enemy numbers- and make remaining enemies stronger to compensate. Kinda how old content prefered using groups of 5-7 monster tops but still manages to each pose a modicum of challenge each.
Also, please, either remove unreachable enemies, or add a way to make them reachable.

 

[Dragxon]

Great job Devs for deflecting! It can't be the games/developers fault for the lag it has to be the players that are wrong. We have seen it multiple times over the years where a dev implemented mechanic becomes a catalyst for lag because players use it to it full extent like the doublestrike/doubleshot mechanics and now its dungeon alert.

Some people have talked about playing the game zerging and "normally". This is such a dumb take because I play the game normally and some people play the game as slow as possible. You don't get to just decide that the way you play is the default way.

I have a friend that started the game about a year and half ago and he just finished his completionist and is thinking about going for racial completionist. If he decides to go for it he has 42 past lives that he has to do and for most of them he will be playing the same build. At some point it will just become doing those lives as fast as possible to hurry up and get them done. So of course he will be zerging but remember that it will be his fault for all the lag in the game and not the developers.

Zerging is not just about running around with red DA, its about doing the quest the most efficent way. What ever the developers end up doing zerging will still be a thing and the power gamers will still finish the quests faster than the flower sniffers will. And again it will be way easier for the developers if they can just blame the lag on the players.

 

[The Narc]

Zerging is not just about running around with red DA, its about doing the quest the most efficent way. What ever the developers end up doing zerging will still be a thing and the power gamers will still finish the quests faster than the flower sniffers will. And again it will be way easier for the developers if they can just blame the lag on the players.

This is what my point was earlier when i was saying that any change that punishes the players, isnt really going to punish those that power thru quests already. It will punish the mediocre players as their time will be spent taking even longer to get thru the content that power players will find a new avenue to do things quick and efficient.

Nothing short of a coupon code that grants full past lives to an individual toon is going to allow the mediocre players to catch up to the end gamers if that is what you seek. Slowing down the fast players isnt going to allow the slower players to catch up, that is just a fallacy.

 

[eshadowbringer]

In all lilklyhood they do not need to fix all of the reasons that DA is triggered. They probably need to either marginally or maybe seriously reduce the instances that are the biggest offenders! I am not qualified to weigh in on that!

I dont believe it is an all or nothing fix!

SSG needs to start with whatever it is they determine will get players to slow down a little! Than being said, It has been my observation in the past that this player base does not respond well to the stick!

 

[Labuff]

SSG needs to start with whatever it is they determine will get players to slow down a little! Than being said, It has been my observation in the past that this player base does not respond well to the stick!

Dosen't help that we've been carrot-starved for years now

 

[Zaszgul]

This is a bad mechanic.

Take Blockade Buster for example. Blow up one boat, and every other mob in the entire quest becomes "alert", triggering DA. They don't have any hint where you are (having never seen you, because you've never come within 1000 meters of them), and can't be trying to path to you, and yet we receive full DA penalty anyway. It's not even possible to "clear" DA without progressing the quest, so for those people suggesting all doors/transitions become autolocked while DA is in effect - this would simply render the quest uncompletable. Terrible idea.

Also slogged through Graveyard Shift in Tethyamar. And then I remembered the other reason we zerg -- not just xp/min or days/PL -- grinding through huge packs of identical mobs every 10 feet is not fun, it's just exhausting and makes me feel burnt out on the game faster.

I'm not even going to bother trying Coalescence Chamber or some other heavy DA quests. Likely just going to sideline myself and go back to Gamepass until this is sorted out in a more intelligent way.

 

[The Narc]

This is a bad mechanic.

Take Blockade Buster for example. Blow up one boat, and every other mob in the entire quest becomes "alert", triggering DA. They don't have any hint where you are (having never seen you, because you've never come within 1000 meters of them), and can't be trying to path to you, and yet we receive full DA penalty anyway. It's not even possible to "clear" DA without progressing the quest, so for those people suggesting all doors/transitions become autolocked while DA is in effect - this would simply render the quest uncompletable. Terrible idea.

Also slogged through Graveyard Shift in Tethyamar. And then I remembered the other reason we zerg -- not just xp/min or days/PL -- grinding through huge packs of identical mobs every 10 feet is not fun, it's just exhausting and makes me feel burnt out on the game faster.

I'm not even going to bother trying Coalescence Chamber or some other heavy DA quests. Likely just going to sideline myself and go back to Gamepass until this is sorted out in a more intelligent way.

There is no way that the people that are zerging for xp or past lives are even bothering to run of any of those quests, the quests run for these are quests that can be completed easily in under 10 minutes (although i guess you could do blockade buster if a group split up, usually i think of zerging as solo player style because they dont want to wait for any other players). And usually in places where you can run one quest after another in fast progression!! One of the reasons fast mounts were such a big hit was because they allowed faster play and xp per minute.

 

[rabidfox]

There is no way that the people that are zerging for xp or past lives are even bothering to run of any of those quests, the quests run for these are quests that can be completed easily in under 10 minutes (although i guess you could do blockade buster if a group split up, usually i think of zerging as solo player style because they dont want to wait for any other players). And usually in places where you can run one quest after another in fast progression!! One of the reasons fast mounts were such a big hit was because they allowed faster play and xp per minute.

Blockade buster is well under 10 minutes to run thru solo and with a group of people it's a couple minutes tops.

Nothing short of a coupon code that grants full past lives to an individual toon is going to allow the mediocre players to catch up to the end gamers if that is what you seek.

Having all the past lives doesn't make one good; mediocre players would still be mediocre if handed a fully geared character with every past life.

 

[The Narc]

Blockade buster is well under 10 minutes to run thru solo and with a group of people it's a couple minutes tops.


Having all the past lives doesn't make one good; mediocre players would still be mediocre if handed a fully geared character with every past life.

Your favourite build might be able to do buster in under 10 minutes EASILY but not all past life builds will trounce it the same, and i am not ask you to prove it or not prove it, if it is one of the quest you use when running past lives that is your decision i am of the opinion that most people would not use this quest as part of their TR train.

As for your other response to my post, i never indicated that the coupon code would change any players skill level, i just indicated it is the only chance a mediocre player would have in catching up (referring to past life bonuses).

I liked the hound season of hardcore, it made a clear seperation of the good player from the mediocre. Even those that were tag alongs got killed from the hounds and for those that have relied on tag alongs for success they ran out of pit chuckers fairly fast. Many of them even complained on the forums!

 

[Oxarhamar]

They can easily flag those quests where DA is mandatory. For instance 'Offering of Blood' is literally a chase up the mountain to the end goal; DA is absolutely going to be triggered, can't avoid it ainfe there are endless monsters chasing you. In this instance any DA amount will not trigger a penalty but at the sametime no bonus.

& that’s the problem if there is a bonus but no bonus on quests because of auto DA that’s still a penalty

 

[Oxarhamar]

No emotion involved D

Don't say it like that or the forum police will flood the thread stating DA does not cause lag and it is just a warning.
You have to say it in a long drawn out way like "The events that lead up to a DA notification causes the lag".

There has been a lot of good discussion on this subject and some not so helpful. I find it best to take emotion out of the mix.
Focus on the issue at hand and then offer ideas that address the issue.

So the issue is aggro'ing large packs of mobs is causing a a huge spike in resource usage that is resulting in a game sync issues (a.k.a. lag).
Since we cannot see the server utilization stats we have to take SSG's word on this. No matter if you beleive it or not that is what we have to work with. Anything else is just speculation and serve no purpose in finding solutions.

The causes for this, outside some dungeon designs that everyone triggers an alert are:

• Players grinding favor. (Don't care about XP or Optional) just finish the quest.
• Players running XP pots just want to finish the quest to get the XP and move to the next before the pot runs out.

Any changes to reduce or make slowing down to do optional worth a boost in XP only addresses part of the issue.
Any thing done to slow things down (Like my earlier post of have a movement speed debuff) would address the favor grind but would cost the XP pot users real world money as they will burn through pots faster.

This not not a single fix that will address both causes. Since both have a speed component lets start with it.
Having a movement speed debuff that gets worse as the DA notices get higher. This will have to be combined with a carrot for the XP pot users so there pots are not diminished in value. I propose a much more substantial boost to XP for completing optional and/or the total number of kills. Make it so slowing down, killing everything and/or completing optional yield more XP than running multiple quest fast to the end.

As for the favor grinders there can also be a carrot. Have the max favor be higher if the DA notifications are not triggered.

If there is a compelling reason to pump the brakes players will do that. I doubt any of use run quests just to run them. There as to be a reward for the effort. Designed the reward around the desired behavior. In this case taking it slow.

No emotion involved that’s the experience in game

Don't say it like that or the forum police will flood the thread stating DA does not cause lag and it is just a warning.
You have to say it in a long drawn out way like "The events that lead up to a DA notification causes the lag".

There has been a lot of good discussion on this subject and some not so helpful. I find it best to take emotion out of the mix.
Focus on the issue at hand and then offer ideas that address the issue.

So the issue is aggro'ing large packs of mobs is causing a a huge spike in resource usage that is resulting in a game sync issues (a.k.a. lag).
Since we cannot see the server utilization stats we have to take SSG's word on this. No matter if you beleive it or not that is what we have to work with. Anything else is just speculation and serve no purpose in finding solutions.

The causes for this, outside some dungeon designs that everyone triggers an alert are:

• Players grinding favor. (Don't care about XP or Optional) just finish the quest.
• Players running XP pots just want to finish the quest to get the XP and move to the next before the pot runs out.

Any changes to reduce or make slowing down to do optional worth a boost in XP only addresses part of the issue.
Any thing done to slow things down (Like my earlier post of have a movement speed debuff) would address the favor grind but would cost the XP pot users real world money as they will burn through pots faster.

This not not a single fix that will address both causes. Since both have a speed component lets start with it.
Having a movement speed debuff that gets worse as the DA notices get higher. This will have to be combined with a carrot for the XP pot users so there pots are not diminished in value. I propose a much more substantial boost to XP for completing optional and/or the total number of kills. Make it so slowing down, killing everything and/or completing optional yield more XP than running multiple quest fast to the end.

As for the favor grinders there can also be a carrot. Have the max favor be higher if the DA notifications are not triggered.

If there is a compelling reason to pump the brakes players will do that. I doubt any of use run quests just to run them. There as to be a reward for the effort. Designed the reward around the desired behavior. In this case taking it slow.

DA itself causes lag on top of the lag already produced by the pathing
adding blanket buffs to monsters in quests

 

[Dragnilar]

This post reminds me of one David Brevik made about nerfing boss drops for Hellgate: London. I'm not sure if you remember that incident @Tolero and @Cordovan but in the end Brevik made himself look bad.

In other words - if you're surprised that you got a lot of negative feedback for this decison, don't be surprised.

I don't believe it was the right one to discourage zerging. I personally try to avoid zerging because of dungeon alert...

With that in mind, there are a significant number of dungeons in the game that you inevitably trigger it (either via scripted events or via reapers popping up out of nowhere).

The fact that these encounters will now be more difficult than they were before is frustrating and unfair imo.

Again at this point I'm waiting to see what Vecna Unleashed offers. If you're not able to keep me satisfied with that, I will chalk this change up to one more reason to leave. Sorry to sound so negative and pessimistic, but I do not enjoy being punished by decisions you made to discourage a behavior I try to avoid in the first place.

 

[eshadowbringer]

i am of the opinion that most people would not use this quest as part of their TR train.

It is in line with getting the Coin Lord Favor for every Iconic that needs the space to TR, so there are likely many that do it every life.

 

[eshadowbringer]

In other words - if you're surprised that you got a lot of negative feedback for this decison, don't be surprised.

There has been a lot of debate on the matter, with some individuals perhaps pushing the boundaries a touch . No judgment here though...

it can be difficult not to feel passionate about certain issues, especially when they line up with a touchy subject. Despite this, I believe the developers have received a lot of valuable feedback from the community, making this a best-case scenario for them.

 

[The Narc]

It is in line with getting the Coin Lord Favor for every Iconic that needs the space to TR, so there are likely many that do it every life.

I guess your hypothesis could be right for those on the TR train that actually care about extra inventory space, the people that i know are doing TR’s are done and ready to TR before the timer is up and still need to wait to TR, they dont slow down for inventory and this quest is not on their list. There is definitely no right or wrong way to TR, to each their own on the path to which they choose. I left the hamster wheel a long time back to enjoy a permadeath style of play which i have yet to get bored of.

 

[Dragnilar]

There has been a lot of debate on the matter, with some individuals perhaps pushing the boundaries a touch . No judgment here though...

it can be difficult not to feel passionate about certain issues, especially when they line up with a touchy subject. Despite this, I believe the developers have received a lot of valuable feedback from the community, making this a best-case scenario for them.

Agreed they did get a lot of feedback and that is good. I'm not happy with the DA change myself due to the reasons I outlined. But as you have stated, they have plenty of feedback, so let's see what they end up doing.

 

[eshadowbringer]

Agreed they did get a lot of feedback and that is good. I'm not happy with the DA change myself due to the reasons I outlined. But as you have stated, they have plenty of feedback, so let's see what they end up doing.

To be fair... The developers made a quick adjustment to help address the issue, and I don't believe they're intentionally trying to deceive us into spending more money. It's clear that they have a difficult job trying to manage and resolve the lag problem. However, I do hope they are taking it seriously.

As for my static group, we're closely monitoring the situation. How the developers respond will be the deciding factor for whether at least half of will take a break from the game or not. so i truely share your