About the tumble changes, here's my take on it :D

[Winterburn]

I only found out about the experimental tumbling recently so I'm not too bothered with the new changes.

If it was up to me I would have made it a bit different. For starters I would have made the jump skill (only) determine how you tumble (jump score of 20 enables the jump forward and then roll animation, 30 jump would give you the side jump and roll animation and 40 into jump would give the backflip animation or whatever numbers that would be acceptable to the community). The tumble could be 8 sec cooldown but points into tumble would lower the cooldown, so 20 points would lower it to 6 sec, 30 points 4 sec and 40 points to 2 sec. That way ppl could not use it continously as before but if you play a character like a monk or rogue where you usually would put points into these skills you can still be and play a more acrobatic playstyle without it breaking immersion.

Like to hear from the community about my thought.

I should note that I have no experience of coding and such so I do get that this might be an undertaking that isn't on the table.

 

[NightHiker]

I think you guys are making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. In my view the bigggest mistake was to add charges at all. This is how I'd design it:

Start it as a simple skill with an 8 second cooldown. Then, for each point you spend in the skill you get a 1% cooldown reduction, up to a minimum of a 2 second cooldown (capping at 75 Tumble with modifiers). Add moderate Tumble skill boosts at strategic enhancements where fitting lore wise.

So everyone can tumble basically once every 8 seconds with a 1 point investment in tumble and nothing else. Up to people being able to tumble once every 2 seconds, meaning 50% uptime (considering the 1 second buff). Everyone else would be somewhere in between. No need to look for charges, no need to wait for a long cooldown if you do invest in the skill properly. Non-dexterity builds would have a harder time getting the skill high enough to get the max benefits (which make sense), and high dex builds would likely get to the max benefits without needing much more investment other than dexterity itself (and tumble). If you try to tumble before your cooldown expires (or have no points spent on the skill), you just get the hoping animation, with no benefits (for those who like to use the tumble animation as an interruption).

The benefits could be smaller by default (like 50% uncapped dodge while tumbling plus + tumble skill reflex bonus for 1 second), with (again lore fitting) specific feats and enhancements improving them (like increasing the uncapped dodge up to 95%, and/or increasing tumble distance).

That's it. No need to worry about charges, no people without proper investment in the skill tumbling around like mad or running faster than horses (the minimum 2 sec cooldown would make sure of it), but giving those willing to focus on it a good defensive feature up to once every 2 seconds.

Cheers,
NH

 

[in4theride75]

I think you guys are making this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. In my view the bigggest mistake was to add charges at all. This is how I'd design it:

Start it as a simple skill with an 8 second cooldown. Then, for each point you spend in the skill you get a 1% cooldown reduction, up to a minimum of a 2 second cooldown (capping at 75 Tumble with modifiers). Add moderate Tumble skill boosts at strategic enhancements where fitting lore wise.

So everyone can tumble basically once every 8 seconds with a 1 point investment in tumble and nothing else. Up to people being able to tumble once every 2 seconds, meaning 50% uptime (considering the 1 second buff). Everyone else would be somewhere in between. No need to look for charges, no need to wait for a long cooldown if you do invest in the skill properly. Non-dexterity builds would have a harder time getting the skill high enough to get the max benefits (which make sense), and high dex builds would likely get to the max benefits without needing much more investment other than dexterity itself (and tumble). If you try to tumble before your cooldown expires (or have no points spent on the skill), you just get the hoping animation, with no benefits (for those who like to use the tumble animation as an interruption).

The benefits could be smaller by default (like 50% uncapped dodge while tumbling plus + tumble skill reflex bonus for 1 second), with (again lore fitting) specific feats and enhancements improving them (like increasing the uncapped dodge up to 95%, and/or increasing tumble distance).

That's it. No need to worry about charges, no people without proper investment in the skill tumbling around like mad or running faster than horses (the minimum 2 sec cooldown would make sure of it), but giving those willing to focus on it a good defensive feature up to once every 2 seconds.

Cheers,
NH

The one problem with this is that there are multiple dungeons in the game with traps that a single tumble will not get you through. The biggest advantage to having multiple tumbles is being able to have this increased reflex save for traps.

 

[NightHiker]

The one problem with this is that there are multiple dungeons in the game with traps that a single tumble will not get you through. The biggest advantage to having multiple tumbles is being able to have this increased reflex save for traps.

Hence my suggestion of having specific, lore appropriate abilities that may increase the tumbling distance. I don't think that "no dex builds" without proper investment in the skill should be able to avoid bigger/harder traps by tumbling thru them anyways. But that's a game design stance.

Cheers,
NH

 

[GrizzlyOso]

The only real problem with now-old experimental tumble is that it was faster than running . Just make it slower than running, no one will abuse it.

I would actually then love both systems, when you have charges you get defensive tactical rolls, when you’re out you can still tumble but it’s slower and doesn’t boost reflex.

Right now it’s all just so clunky and the joy of this game is the smoothness of the game .

And of course, first thing, display number of tactical roll charges somewhere as everyone has mentioned .

 

[dur]

OMG!! The biggest PROBLEM IS THAT THERE IS A COOL-DOWN on TUMBLE AT ALL!!

WHY will NO ONE acknowledge SSG majorly changed a CORE STAT?!?!

 

[Archaic]

It should just go back prior to "Experimental Change"
Trying to compromise with a bad idea is a worse idea.

 

[Hara]

Absolutely hate the new Tumble changes, please put it back to how it was to begin with, at the very least only enable the new tumble mechanics for people who have the experimental tumble option turned on. I want to tumble about without any cooldowns while waiting for my guildies to shift their rear ends and get into the quest.

 

[Smokewolf]

We are intending to take a further look at Tumble when time permits.

Tumble was fine how it was prior to adding the experimental controls. Fastforward to U66, now we have a bad system that many feel that we're now stuck with.

So glad that the enormous amount of player feedback once again made a difference. (Sarc)

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Tumble was fine how it was prior to adding the experimental controls. Fastforward to U66, now we have a bad system that many feel that we're now stuck with.

So glad that the enormous amount of player feedback once again made a difference. (Sarc)

There were massive changes between preview 1 and 2, entirely based on feedback. There are many topics where this talking point applies but I don’t really understand it in this case.

 

[Spook]

Just Combine classic tumble and experimental controls tumble

when you have charges tumble acts as it currently does on live. When you dont have charges it reverts to classic tumble.

 

[dur]

Tumble was fine how it was prior to adding the experimental controls. Fastforward to U66, now we have a bad system that many feel that we're now stuck with.

So glad that the enormous amount of player feedback once again made a difference. (Sarc)

It did. They listened to, and adopted the language of, "it looks stupid." And (IMO) is also why there are a few dedicated 'damage-control' members "here," berating or otherwise demeaning players who are upset.

**ETA: I can't bring myself to look thru the Lamannia discussion about it..

 

[Alco]

I only found out about the experimental tumbling recently so I'm not too bothered with the new changes.

If it was up to me I would have made it a bit different. For starters I would have made the jump skill (only) determine how you tumble (jump score of 20 enables the jump forward and then roll animation, 30 jump would give you the side jump and roll animation and 40 into jump would give the backflip animation or whatever numbers that would be acceptable to the community). The tumble could be 8 sec cooldown but points into tumble would lower the cooldown, so 20 points would lower it to 6 sec, 30 points 4 sec and 40 points to 2 sec. That way ppl could not use it continously as before but if you play a character like a monk or rogue where you usually would put points into these skills you can still be and play a more acrobatic playstyle without it breaking immersion.

Like to hear from the community about my thought.

I should note that I have no experience of coding and such so I do get that this might be an undertaking that isn't on the table.

Gonna have to give this a NO. Jump is a strength based skill and tumble is dexterity based - while there can be some overlap they really are different skills. Think of the difference between a high jumper and a gymnast.

 

[Ellisaria]

Since as it is today (if I'm not misstaken) you need points into both jump and tumble to get those animations. But a high jump should be enough to do that kind of tumble imo.

Jump is strength-based and effects how high you jump, this skill does not need to be trained to use. Tumble is dexterity-based and requires one rank to be used at all. The distance/animations used for tumbling are based on your tumble skill, not your jump skill. Wiki for reference

Tumble Chart:

 

[Winterburn]

Jump is strength-based and effects how high you jump, this skill does not need to be trained to use. Tumble is dexterity-based and requires one rank to be used at all. The distance/animations used for tumbling are based on your tumble skill, not your jump skill. Wiki for reference

Tumble Chart:

I stand corrected.