Time to Remove the IPS -20% Penalty

[Bunker]

Change IPS to be a ranged AoE attack so ranged can be properly balanced with melee already.

I'd be wary of changing IPS to an AoE attack, if it ends up sharing cool downs with other AoE. L

Also, IPS in its current format, allows for a different type of AoE in lining up mobs. I kind of like the option as it stands now. I'm not sure it ends up being better, but functionally, it adds variety to the ranged attack.

As for the -20%, it wouldn't hurt to remove it.

 

[FixBows]

If the AoE diameter was more reasonable (larger) and useful, there would be no need for IPS. However, because it is basically only viable for 1 shot prior to mobs activating, it is still required for a lot of builds. So, the -20% penalty is a relic of nerfs implemented for game mechanics that no longer exist. Therefore, it should be removed.

 

[bleach]

Also, IPS in its current format, allows for a different type of AoE in lining up mobs. I kind of like the option as it stands now. I'm not sure it ends up being better, but functionally, it adds variety to the ranged attack.

This guy gets it. IPS is one of the big reasons why ranged feels different than any other playstyle, it is a core and signature ability of ranged combat. Removing it or making it aoe atack would take the uniqueness away. If I want to play heavy AOE build I just play cleaving melee or caster, who are a lot better at that. 1 extra AOE attack which would more likely be lower % damage and lower hitbox than any melee aoe attack, becasue thats how they treat ranged AOE attacks, won't make it worth.

ps. It's like asking for cleaves to be removed ( or changed to be big alpha strike single target atacks ) so thf and twf can be balanced properly by upping thf single target damage to twf levels...so every combat style is perfectly balanced but feels and woks the same...NTY. The game needs more variety no more homgenization, we have had enough of the later lately

 

[mbartol]

Fixed that for you. Also... bow cleaves when ?!?!

A close range melee cleave option (the way enemy archers do) for when you get swarmed wouldn’t be too bad. Maybe have a push effect to break from melee range.

 

[bleach]

A close range melee cleave option (the way enemy archers do) for when you get swarmed wouldn’t be too bad. Maybe have a push effect to break from melee range.

I was being sarcastic there...

 

[FixBows]

This guy gets it. IPS is one of the big reasons why ranged feels different than any other playstyle, it is a core and signature ability of ranged combat. Removing it or making it aoe atack would take the uniqueness away. If I want to play heavy AOE build I just play cleaving melee or caster, who are a lot better at that. 1 extra AOE attack which would more likely be lower % damage and lower hitbox than any melee aoe attack, becasue thats how they treat ranged AOE attacks, won't make it worth.

ps. It's like asking for cleaves to be removed ( or changed to be big alpha strike single target atacks ) so thf and twf can be balanced properly by upping thf single target damage to twf levels...so every combat style is perfectly balanced but feels and woks the same...NTY. The game needs more variety no more homgenization, we have had enough of the later lately

While I agree that IPS is very unique and fun and the playstyle I have used basically since 2006, I also want to get this resolved in a way that is both usable and user friendly. Currently, both AoE and IPS have issues. IPS has a -20 damage nerf and is at times a bit clunky because the terrain and/or height of the character, etc. This is the reason I only use shorter characters. I did suggest making character size adjustable during character creation, but that went the way of most suggestions (both good or not) which is no where. AoE's biggest issue is the hit box is so small that you only get 1 shot (sometimes not even) when mobs are grouped tightly enough to hit more than 1.

Since SSG is usually not too keen at admitting mistakes, like their treatment of IPS and bow use in general, I would suggest taking their new shiny and making it actually useful. I would make the AoE diameter the same as something like hold monster. If that could be done, I would be more ok with the changes and letting go of IPS. Otherwise we are just using a bad system waiting for the next round of archer nerfs to make this garbage even worse.

 

[Mickeymouse]

A close range melee cleave option (the way enemy archers do) for when you get swarmed wouldn’t be too bad. Maybe have a push effect to break from melee range.

we got that now.. that is how all of these AOE strikes works.

 

[RangerOne]

Since returning to an archer I have been spamming Elemental Essence (think that is right, the old fire arrow in arcane archer) incessantly. I don't really care about IPS anymore, Send the bird to blind the whole groups, fire AOE, Manshot, repeat. Mobs aren't even getting close to me. Probably shouldn't say that or they'll find a way to nerf it.

 

[mbartol]

I was being sarcastic there...

Yea, but it made me think about using a melee animation for close quarters cleave.

 

[bleach]

I would be more ok with the changes and letting go of IPS.

We are in the same boat here, but I disagree on that part. If they removed IPS I would probably just stop playing ranged entirely. Even with the current -20% nonsensical nerf ( that I would like to see removed asap ) is still a very powerful feat, probably the most powerful ranged feat, and it's worth having it on as long as you can hit at least 2+ mobs at same time. The only times I trun it off is for raids, quest bosses, isolated dooms and quests where the mob density is so low that hitting 2+ at once is almost imposible. In any other situation you are better off with IPS on if you are a skilled ranged player who can consistently hit 2+ mobs at once.

The main reason why the 20% nerf doesn't make sense anymore imo is because top melee dps, both single target and aoe, has gone so out of hand that even if they unerfed IPS - 20% damage reduction the dps diference in between ranged and melee would still be in favor of melee by a rather big margin. It maybe made sense when the ranged dps was closer to melees but it is not the case anymore

 

[Mindos]

They'll unnerf-ish IPS when they nerf racial access to Arcane Archer as some kind of bizarre "gotcha"

 

[Kimbere]

Countepoint...what has proven effective at getting the devs to change something is enough people complaining about it loud enough, over and over

Both IPS and Dshot penalties on RXB/DXB are indefensible and can be deleted next patch

Evo casters using Epic Dragon breath would strongly disagree with you.

Healers who used the EA healing aura would disagree with you.

Evo casters who run R7+ probably also don't believe this to be true.

The list of things that had mass pages of negative feedback that the devs completely ignored and changed anyway is much longer than the ones they aborted.

The only thing that would really be effective in getting them to change their stance on something at this point is some form of mass financial protest by a good portion of the player community. As the saying goes, money talk, bs walks.

Given the current state of the player community's various, differing opinions on anything, it's highly unlikely this will happen unless SSG does something excessively bad, even for them.

 

[bleach]

Since returning to an archer I have been spamming Elemental Essence (think that is right, the old fire arrow in arcane archer) incessantly. I don't really care about IPS anymore, Send the bird to blind the whole groups, fire AOE, Manshot, repeat. Mobs aren't even getting close to me. Probably shouldn't say that or they'll find a way to nerf it.

Even if inferno shot was as effective for clearing big packs of trash as IPS is, which I doubt, that leaves any non bow ranged user out.

 

[Br4d]

Ranged is eternally broken because it has the wrong position in the meta.

Daggers, hand wraps and SWF - fast attacks due to dual-wielding or SWF enhancements.
Two-handed weapons - spray attacks that seemingly hit everything around the target.
Repeating Xbow - fast missile attacks in sequences of 3.
Great Xbow - hard hitting attacks that speed up with feats and enhancements. *Does not hit hard enough in the current meta*
Bow - hard hitting attacks that speed up with feats and enhancements. *Does not hit hard enough in the current meta*
All ranged - stupid AoE attacks just added because SSG wants to make everything the same.

What should Great Xbow and Bow be doing?

They should be *slower* than they currently are and they should have a built-in vorpal that kills lesser mobs and does high damage to bosses.

When a Rogue lines up a Great Xbow shot they should have a 50/50 or so chance of outright killing the mob.

When any Archer lines up a Bow shot they should have a good chance of outright killing the target.

Not FAST. Not AoE. Lethal damage at a much higher chance than a melee.

Otherwise you wind up playing The Rubberband Man plinking as fast as you can and looking at melees in horror.

 

[Mickeymouse]

Evo casters using Epic Dragon would likely strongly disagree with you.

Ditto for healers who previously used the EA healing aura.

Evo casters who run R7+ probably also don't believe this to be true.

The list of things that had mass pages of negative feedback that the devs completely ignored and changed anyway is much longer than the ones they aborted.

The only thing that would really be effective in getting them to change their stance on something at this point is some form of mass financial protest by a good portion of the player community. As the saying goes, money talk, bs walks.

Given the current state of the player communities various opinions on anything, it's highly unlikely this will happen unless SSG does something excessively bad, even for them.

very hard to bring any actual facts when we don´t have the dps metres to prove it. and theoretic math doesnt seem to prove anything...

 

[The Narc]

True balance is coming, melees will be next!

The devs will have what they want which is to slow down advancement and the grind as much as they can without completely losing their clientelle,

I had discussions with Kimbere about the ranged changes several hardcores ago and one of my main points was that the community didnt care because it didnt affect them as an individual and therefore didnt respond as a community. Ultimately SSG has a good reading on how far they can and cant push things with changes/nerfs and they have divided the playing culture into different factions so that they can now get away with anything.

When they nerf melees into orbit, many individuals(who may even be playing melees now/dragonlord) while be happy about the changes and go back to playing their other styles(for which they have gear sets for).

Hey Kimbere, as you have known, I did represent my disapproval with the IPS nerf by not spending any more extra money on DDO from that point forward and also by teaching many players how to not spend money and earn many things in game and with points. Kimbere you are right, if more people had of stood up for the principle of it then maybe we would have seen the change back to the old IPS.

Other nerfs i didnt like followed;
Cargo hold buffs (I originally paid money to get the biggest ship and they stole part of what they sold me)
Augment changes (augments slotted in pets gear no longer worked)
Weapon damage changes (damage is decreased in heroics)
The Death Auras stealth nerf( they changed all of these to once every 3 seconds from once every 2 seconds, they even left the every 2 seconds in the tooltip hoping people wouldnt notice)
The epic destinies changes for going from the original to the new to the newer nerfed(although some of these i approve i still dont think the way ssg does things is right)

SSG shouldnt create something that they cant back, and if something is so broken fix it right away but fix it in a reasonable way, for the record I think the inquisitve and the warlock are good examples of ssg fixing things in a quick and reasonable way. Leaving something obviously overpowered in the game for too long is a bad thing and favoured soul was a perfect example of that, the cold druid and immunity stripping sorc are still current examples and just add in everything about the alchemist bombadier(but even in these cases should the rest of everything else be brought up or these be brought down). Of course the melee are going to be torn down next but only a little, they like melee as they are hittable by mobs and cause less pathing calculations.

 

[Kimbere]

very hard to bring any actual facts when we don´t have the dps metres to prove it. and theoretic math doesnt seem to prove anything...

Are you sure you replied to the correct post? Your response doesn't seem to be related to my post.