You're going to take this VIPLP and you're going to like it.

Do you support the VIP Loyalty Program?

  • No.

  • Yes.

  • Donuts.


Results are only viewable after voting.

JustHavingFunBro

Well-known member
I don't care about the VIP. Its almost worthless.

What I care about is attracting players into the game on a daily basis and incentivizing people to run quest. Lots of games do this by adding Daily rewards, and during the month you get something cool. Silver rolls, ain't doing it. They also give a huge 1 time bonus to XP to run a dungeon.
 

Fizban

Well-known member
Note to OP, I must be one of the very few that like the new VIP program very much. Since you state that a lot of people don't like it, do you know the percentage of like it versus not like it?
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
It is all perspective my brother. I have been a VIP from almost the beginning. I didn't do it for the 500 points or the extra slots or xp. I did it because I want to support the game that I love and do my part to keep it running. Will I care about the 10% crafting boost ... nope. I don't care about any of the stuff. But I will continue to support the game I love. I bet there are a lot of people who think like me ... you just don't hear it on the forums.
Nothing wrong with that. I am staying VIP for the perks that I have been getting. The new stuff is more meh and doesn't move the needle for me.

But it is still rather poor design that they take the time to create Perk system for VIPs and instead of getting people to be enthusiastic or happy about it, they have actually angered customers. And its not like they weren't warned that this plan was awful a year ago. They just didn't care about the feedback.
 

Bjond

Well-known member
Literally the only part that irritates me enough to cancel VIP is the "log in, claim it, or loose it" aspect. If you buy a year and it gave you a years bonus all at once or even stretched out (but no login or insanely annoying fetch-it-from-npc), I'd love it. I wouldn't even care if the bonuses were all that nice or not.

It doesn't matter how nice the bonuses are when the delivery is deliberately designed for maximum annoyance.
 

Thwart

Well-known member
I've been VIP, nearly all the time since launch myself. I buy points, I buy xpacks, I even bought the semi-pointless coffers. And while you're completely allowed to do VIP for charity's sake, some would actually like it to have value in accordance with the name. SSG even admitted that VIP had lost value, and then used three years to get to this pointless FOMO-based system.

I think they could and should have done better. You think it's fine. I think I'll leave it at that - we're never going to agree on this.
It's not charity. It's supporting the game that I love. They didn't have to give me anything extra for that support. I understand that others feel differently. If VIP isn't worth it to you, don't subscribe.
 

Blunt Hackett

Well-known member
It's extra and won't attract new players but rather "bridge gap" existing VIPers who have a habit of buying in spurts.

It's extra, buy it or don't .
I think what new players it does attract will just annoy them once several of the benefits lapse in the switch to Premium. That's the main reason I couldn't care less about the program.
 

mbartol

Murder Hobo
Nah, a lot of companies want to make their customers happy—happy customers will be willing to spend money again
 

Vox

Well-known member
Note to OP, I must be one of the very few that like the new VIP program very much. Since you state that a lot of people don't like it, do you know the percentage of like it versus not like it?

Free stuff is free & I think it is just nitpicks about the usefulness of the choices, however the main discourse is the quite low effort implementation.

As in:
- They put effort and resource into a brand new VIP menu window, but you can't claim eligible rewards from it
- The VIP window has a learn about VIP button that goes to a store error page (or specials if already VIP)
- The VIP claim NPC doesn't have a map marker, so he's difficult to find
- The icon for VIP claim being ready has no instructions for how to claim it
- The reward track is confusingly worded around when things become available

Don't get me wrong though. I shill this game hard. I love it to bits. The music, 99% of the content, the layers upon layers of complex character building, the relative balance of so many different permutations of character options. It's brilliant.

But the leadership who repeatedly green-lights poorly thought out ideas & rush releases untested changes... gawd damn I wish SSG would kick them in the arse to do better or obtain different producers/management, because it always seems to be the same problems.
 

Dude

Well-known member
It's not charity. It's supporting the game that I love.
I'd say it's more basic than that. I enjoy playing the game. In order for me to keep playing the game, the company has to make money. If the company doesn't make money, then the game I want to play goes away. Hence, I subscribe to make sure I'm doing my part to keep the game going.
 

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
Now, so far in only 10 replies, folks are again using the argument that this new thing is "extra". It is NOT extra. It was something that was *supposed* to make up for things in the past that had been devalued from a VIP sub.
I don;t think you understand the way trade works. SSG are offering an xyz. if you like said xyz you buy it, otherwise you...obviously whine about how much you hate it because that's how normal folks behave when they shop at walmart etc.

So next time you're at walmart and you see a toy discounted I expect you to scream like a psychopath about how much you really hate that discounted toy.

have a nice day :)(y)
 

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
What I care about is attracting players into the game on a daily basis and incentivizing people to run quest. Lots of games do this by adding Daily rewards, and during the month you get something cool. Silver rolls, ain't doing it. They also give a huge 1 time bonus to XP to run a dungeon.
And clearly SSG are doing a sufficient job attracting revenues to keep the game online otherwise there would be no game and everyone would be at LOTR or maybe warcraft forums screaming insanely in CAPS
 

cdbd3rd

Well-known member
I don;t think you understand the way trade works. SSG are offering an xyz. if you like said xyz you buy it, otherwise you...obviously whine about how much you hate it because that's how normal folks behave when they shop at walmart etc.

So next time you're at walmart and you see a toy discounted I expect you to scream like a psychopath about how much you really hate that discounted toy.

have a nice day :)(y)

Bad day there, DD?

We're talking about the value of our apple, and here you are waving around an orange.
 

Shear-buckler

Well-known member
I'd say it's more basic than that. I enjoy playing the game. In order for me to keep playing the game, the company has to make money. If the company doesn't make money, then the game I want to play goes away. Hence, I subscribe to make sure I'm doing my part to keep the game going.
Well that the thing, if you want to keep playing the game and want the game to keep making money then the last thing you should do is to support the new VIP program. It's a horrible system that is going to become worse over time.
 

kmoustakas

Scourge of Xaos
You like that, don't ya?
I do not like it and I do not want it. Lots of people do not want it. So many of us have been saying this for so long, for over a year considering its prior version and its been forced on us anyway. There are a large number of suggestions from a wide variety of players all up and down both sides of the issues where little tweaks or even complete overhauls or replacements could be made and it appears that none of that was consulted. It feels bad that in a game that relies on player support and that acknowledges issues with the pre-existing vip program and player dissatisfaction - that those very same players were largely ignored during development. I have to assume this is the case because 1) the staff has gone radio silent, 2) I don't see a single thing on the VIPLP that players were scrambling about asking for and 3) all the things that players actually were asking for are absent. Some of us players can probably pick through this pile of stuff and say "Oh this one here, this one isn't too bad. This can be good eventually. I can envision a scenario where maybe I can benefit from this one thing, etc" That is not what the purpose was supposed to be nor was that the expectation. We were led to believe we were getting a robust replacement or enhanced VIP system and we did not. At the end of the day, what we got was simply what they calculated was financially okay for them to give us while meeting all the metrics needed to try to lock people into a cycle of login checks and engagement. This is why player ideas weren't consulted, because it is not a program to address player needs, but to drive financial support.

Swear to me.
With your money and your time. I don't have a problem with financial support. Most people here do not. We want to support continual development of a game that we enjoy. I don't think its appropriate to say we need to be "rewarded" for doing so...but we do need to be "valued" for doing so. If I am already buying your yearly/bi-yearly expansions and I decide that I am going to further support you on a regular, monthly basis then I can, I think, reasonably expect that as a trade I get in return improvements that make my experience in your game smoother. The, it seems, forbidden words: Quality of Life. Decades in and its all people have ever wanted, its what people will continue to want and it is perpetually at the forefront of what people will say they want. Most of every player suggestion list you can find are full of qol suggestions. SSG you know this is what people want, you know this is what people will be satisfied spending their real world dollars for. So then, where is the disconnect? It is not a binary thing where one side has to lose for the other side to win. Trust me, there is a scenario where SSG can implement a program that players will be happy to pay monthly for but would ALSO maintain a steady revenue stream for the company and increase engagement. A scenario where mutual loyalty is established.

Eat it.
We didn't get that and our voice does in fact not matter. Why should I or anyone think it does? Ever since its announcement we have been here on the forums, daily, in heated back and forth debates about the merits and value of this and that part of the VIPLP. Giving feedback, giving suggestions, giving thanks where we think the program hits the mark and criticisms where we think it falls short. Hot debates, yes, because many like myself are very, very invested into this game currently and are likewise concerned and invested in what the future of this game will look like. We talk among ourselves and sometimes we even come to a consensus on an issue or two but..
Where is the staff engagement?
This is what does it for me and I suspect that this is what does it for many players. Sure you can unilaterally create this program, ignoring player suggestions. You can force it onto players on X date while allowing little to no opportunity for change. But you should not be able to do so without accountability to the community whom you are simultaneously asking for regular support. That is not right. Defend the program; comment on why each months inclusion was made and thought processes that led to each value assessment. Describe the detrimental loss of value to prior vip with the free code giveaways and where in the VIPLP this value is recovered. Take the staffer who is most familiar with the new program or assign someone and give them the talking points to come here and engage with players on the points we raise. I as a player want to know why "X" is in fact good. We can talk about it among ourselves as we have been, but is it unreasonable to expect the people implementing this to go over the aspects of this program in a detailed manner? Or to do a meaningful Q and A with relevant persons answering player questions about it. Or to at least come on the forums and direct reply to player concerns about the program. RADIO SILENCE.

Decisions.

It seems radio silence was a collective decision after all. Don't talk about it, don't address it, don't add fuel to the fire and players will eventually accept it begrudgingly and we can all move forward to the next thing. Okay, yes that will probably happen. However, this is not behavior indicative of the team I thought I was supporting all these years but sure, its effective. People have short memories. But decisions lead to other decisions. Today I logged on to advance my obliss steps and seeing that my vip had expired on both my accounts, I decided not to renew either. That was my decision. I don't not love the game after this and I do want to help its further development, but that contrasts heavily with my desire to not want to support this program as it currently is in particular. I would prefer the option to separate my support for the overall game from my support from this one aspect of the game but SSG has successfully tied the two together. Inextricably tied - with a monthly, convoluted check-in where it did not exist prior to boot. I have decided that the vip benefits -both prior and new- do not outweigh my disdain for the way this was handled. Does SSG understand? I could have accepted this if only they had the courage to defend their actions and ideas. I would have appreciated the honesty and if it in fact all came down to just numbers, then I would've appreciated the transparency. But I cannot give you my money in this way.

I cannot
bitterly swipe my card or have it auto-renewed; bitterly track down and check-in with my in-game CO; bitterly collect a "reward" I didn't want in the first place but would feel obligated to take because I'm backed into a corner and its either that or nothing; bitterly debate with myself whether the over priced month to month subscription is better for me than the objectively better priced 3-6-12 month subscription when the latter despite its great financial investment in the game does not in fact guarantee that I will comfortably get the 'rewards' that SSG told me I am due; bitterly come to terms with the reality that If I don't meet this arbitrary check-in for a month, that while I will still get that months reward the next month (or the next month that I subscribe/am subscribed), the month that I did not collect is in essence a month that I paid irl money for and did not get a reward for. Yes, the track resumes the next time I am subscribed and the reward is gained the next month I am subscribed but those two things require an additional irl subscription of at least one more month to pick that back up meaning I simply lose out on the additional reward for the month I did not collect. I am not behind on the track, I get the reward eventually, but a month not collected still equals a month I paid and got nothing. Therefore, bitterly recalling every single forum post that pointed this out, that asked for an auto-grant, that pleaded for a reward cache, that begged for some way to bank or retrieve missed albeit paid for rewards. To bitterly remember that not only were these suggestions ignored they were not even deemed worthy to respond to.

Engage this.
SSG did not engage with us on the creation or implementation of the VIPLP so I am not going to engage with said program. Ordinarily an easy decision for a man who works 14/hrs a day; but fortunately/unfortunately I am currently in a position to engage more than ever. I am stuck at home on medical leave for what was supposed to be a few weeks, for what turned into 2 months, for what will now be into at least mid-summer. With all this time at my disposal, I have been able to follow these forums like never before; to potentially invest hours into this game like never before. DDO right now could be a meaningful escape from irl issues and a bright spot for the next bit while irl things pan out. But this has left such a bad taste in my mouth. At a critical time where I am accessing in my life where valuable time is and isn't spent, I would like to take comfort in knowing that I'm able to log onto one of my favorite games and pass the time in a peaceful, fun manner. For the most part I still can. But, I will now always be thinking about what could have been. I am going to notice when I don't have that vip movement speed increase; I am going to notice when I don't have that vip xp boost; I am going to actively remember, as a result, why I am not supporting the vip program anymore.

Each time that I do, something in the back of my mind is going to cross reference what value I get from continuing to invest in this game with the value of the time gained from logging off and doing something else.
You really shouldn't be paying subscriptions for game in beta. Star citizent is an example of that.
 

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
Bad day there, DD?

We're talking about the value of our apple, and here you are waving around an orange.
Unless you are a shareholder in SSG and/or you invested $$$$$ in gaming development DDO is NOT your apple...or anything else (folks like you will typically spend $5 on a product then scream like they own the entire business) . You are merely an interested potential customer so kindly behave like an interested potential customer.

If you don;t like the apple, orange, or no.45 diaper being offered then you simply walk away to the next aisle. What you don;t do is throw a no45 style hissyfit :)(y)
 

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
Once again I personally find zero value in chained VIP so my decision to buy into VIP won't be impacted by its availability.

But I'm sure SSG undertook market reseatch to determine the likely revenue from capital invested
 

Dude

Well-known member
Well that the thing, if you want to keep playing the game and want the game to keep making money then the last thing you should do is to support the new VIP program. It's a horrible system that is going to become worse over time.
Great idea! Give the company less money so they ... checks notes ... go out of business? /s
 
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