Build Challenge

[CBDunk]

Nope(and dont bother moving the goal posts with descriptors like reasonable build nobody is biting on your attempt to suck people in),

In the OP I said, "characters of every type (i.e. tank, ranged DPS, instakill caster, CC caster, blaster caster, ranged DPS, stealth, etc)". In the post you are replying to I said, "any reasonable build". You call that "moving goal posts". I call it paraphrasing for brevity.

Oh and just to reiterate, a first life toon with minimal gear can easily run R6 on a first life toon with limited gear(cannith crafted 2 pieces and the rest level 16 and under) with a barovian weapon. I am sure the other player from lavadivers can reiterate their statement about R10.

...and here we are, right back to the claims that supposedly no one is making anything close to.

Except, of course, the examples you refer to are 'first life' with +8 tomes for every stat and/or all reaper trees completely filled and/or named gear with reaper and mythic bonuses and/or are being run at low/mid quest levels and/or only apply to a handful of very meta builds.... et cetera. In short, different scenarios than what I cited. Which is WHY I said in the OP that all such claims always wound up being based on such assumptions and used the specific criteria I did.

 

[The Narc]

In the OP I said, "characters of every type (i.e. tank, ranged DPS, instakill caster, CC caster, blaster caster, ranged DPS, stealth, etc)". In the post you are replying to I said, "any reasonable build". You call that "moving goal posts". I call it paraphrasing for brevity.



...and here we are, right back to the claims that supposedly no one is making anything close to.

Except, of course, the examples you refer to are 'first life' with +8 tomes for every stat and/or all reaper trees completely filled and/or named gear with reaper and mythic bonuses and/or are being run at low/mid quest levels and/or only apply to a handful of very meta builds.... et cetera. In short, different scenarios than what I cited. Which is WHY I said in the OP that all such claims always wound up being based on such assumptions and used the specific criteria I did.

And i said that a first life toon would end up with a +2 tome and likely a +5 tome from favor onits first life, which clearly indicates not a +8 tome. I dont buy such things from the DDO store.

As for reaper points a first life toon might have around 14-18 points when it started running endgame content. i dont but xp pots from the DDO store.

Lol and my gear might have a mythic or reaper bonus on it if i was lucky enough to pull something that way while levelling, but it wouldnt be required. I dont buy astral shards for rerolls from the DDO store.

The fact that you want such a broad spectrum of toons to be able to do things equally clearly proves that you are upset about your favourite type of build not being able to do what theirs can do and you would like to see balancing either in the form of your melee toon getting back its healing aura and your caster build getting back its dragon breath OR you would like to have someone stream or post the build that you would like to see nerfed. Everyone can read between the lines of what you are attempting to prove and again nobody cares to show you the value of a good first life reaper build in the hands of a skilled player.

 

[canicus]

and yeah, they absolutely did say that.

What part of:
The difference between r8 and r10 is 25% less (or 44% less for spell casters) from players to monsters and 48% increased damage from monsters to players, 4dcs, additional healing penalties, and some more penalties. Other than DCs, which are either 0-4 more than that depending on school and stat, those differences are pretty close to the difference between a first life and a completed toon, if not a little more. In other words, if you take a party doing r10 and strip their reaper points and past lives, without changing their setups other than that, you should be able to do r8 slightly more easily than you were doing r10.

says anything like:
'brand new characters of every type (i.e. tank, ranged DPS, instakill caster, CC caster, blaster caster, ranged DPS, stealth, etc) can solo high reapers at endgame'.

I increased the text size for emphasis. They explicitly talk about being in a party and you use them as evidence of claims to solo. I honestly don't care about your point one way or the other. The only reason I posted at all was I was shocked at how badly you represented this persons point. The fact that you doubled down instead of actually quoting someone making the claims you described says volumes.

 

[rabidfox]

I am sure the other player from lavadivers can reiterate their statement about R10. We both can live rent free i your mind while you question and guess at how we are able to do it!

It was mostly just me musing that there's a few quests with enough safe spots that one could (in theory) bluff pull, slowly kill stuff, etc. even on a 1st lifer without any reaper points. But all it would take is RNG to result in reaper spawn that's a problem or for a mob to get lucky on a hit and it would require resetting the quest. It wouldn't be much different than some solo videos where one is actually seeing the 50th try and not the 49 failed prior attempts (but probably on a much greater magnitude of attempts before a successful run and with extreme cherrypicking for what quests would work). About as silly a concept to actually do as the OP's requirements.

 

[Randomdude1223]

The number of people on the forums who won't admit when they're wrong, including the OP of this thread, is surprising.

 

[AbyssalMage]

From time to time, and quite frequently in the currently ongoing discussions over the planned Epic Destiny balance pass, claims are made that DDO is currently 'easier than it has ever been' or that 'brand new characters of every type (i.e. tank, ranged DPS, instakill caster, CC caster, blaster caster, ranged DPS, stealth, etc) can solo high reapers at endgame'. Inevitably, there are stated to be 'countless' videos and builds posted all over showing this to be the case... but no links to such are provided. Or when you track one of these builds down you discover that, 'well of course you need +8 tomes for all stats' or 'well you have to be with a R10 tank' or 'it absolutely works so long as you have a jibbers blade and a reaper hat version of this particular raid item and...'. Et cetera.

So... a challenge. I'd like to see the vast array of builds that can meet the following criteria;

• Any Race/Class/Destiny/Combo thereof
• At level cap (currently 32)
• NO Tomes (Stat, Skill, AP, RP, XP, mysterious, et cetera)
• NO Past Lives
• NO Reaper Points spent
• NO Guild Buffs
• NO Mythic/Reaper/Fortune bonuses on gear
• All gear must be un-named random generated, cannith crafted, or named gear that drops 100% of the time on first playthrough (e.g. Voice of the Master). The various 'zone specific' (e.g. Shining Reliquary, Dinosaur Bone (NOT Attuned), Ferrocrystal, Serranian, et cetera) weapon types that can be easily purchased are all acceptable. Anything that requires raid runes, 20 completions, or luck to get is out.
• Able to regularly beat nearly all Legendary quests SOLO on Reaper 6 difficulty

Please post full builds or links to such.

P.S. Hearing only <crickets>, let's take Doom Reapers out of the equation and drop it from R10 down to R6.

I mean, with all of your limitations I don't think it would be possible. Thankfully our planet doesn't exist in a bubble of such pathetic limitations. Also, 20 completions for a guaranteed drop goes against your own qualifications because it does/may drop 100% of the time on the 20th run.

No TR's - Been done
No ER's - Probably been done but not positive.
No tomes - Eventually you will find some if you didn't get the 100% drop from 1750, 5k, and 7.5k favor (breaking your own rules, again)
No Reaper Points - Why? SSG added the power creep. Why tie your hand behind your back?
No guild buffs - Again, read above.
No mythic/reaper/fortune - Probably been done but not positive.
Gear - Yeah, you already break your own rules by saying it can be a 100% drop rate then limiting it.

Why would you expect to hear anything other than crickets? I may not be the brightest star but thankfully I burn brighter than others.

 

[Xaxx]

I remember the Batman build, and how quickly that got nerfed.

to be fair the batman build relied on evasion in heavy armor and ANYONE who had any experience with any pen and paper before they started ddo way back then knew that evasion in heavy armor was a bug and wasnt gonna be sticking around and told anyone making a batman build so....

As for build challenge... you know I remember cetus and his wf/bf build, and how much he could do with that thing vs game difficulty at the time, and how popular it became, and what was funny about it was that only a few people could make it do ANYTHING anywhere near what cetus could do.... I can kinda point to this over and over with these "super builds".... its almost always only a few who can make it dance like that. To many people dont take player skill into such discussion of builds. I've played with 2 guys who i could do the random character roll game with for 3 classes and im fairly certain the two of them could still duo r8 with wahtever character they were handed... i've listened to the break down of all the stuff one of em is up to during a 2 min dps test.... and I can only think that I couldnt pull off that level of Rainman Keyboard Cowboy Bullshlaga if i was 15 again and had enough caffeine in my system to make me hop high enough to wave to the guys in the ISS is someone said boo....


That said even when that is the case it doesnt stop the joke these people call "balance" from bringing large metal things to various things invollved in those builds.

So on the next day that someone releases some weird interaction build that they're soloing every quest on the game at r8 with.... you and me and 98.8% of the rest of the people who would see a build or a video or just something like poor phil who gets handled about as gently and as often as a dev does somethinig around here... yeah it'll be unlikely you'll just pull it off....

You know there was like 2 builds that anyone could do, and it would kill anything, one was a bug, the other was original shiradi spammer, and after the first nerf it was where it should have been, but they beat that thing like like mike tyson in his prime smacking around like your local gym guy. All shiradi did in the end was beg for death and then tilo figured out another bug for it, and they beat it some more. So yes, shiradi alone should tell you that if a build becomes common knowledge to the point that alot of forumites think its op, they will scream about it for years.... You would see people on here talking about how op shiradi was when at a point you could empty 10k mana at a 100k hp mob and you couldnt kill that mob... and people still would scream about op... and something in shiradi would be nerfed again.... heck new shiradi stance has been nerfed 2 or 3 times, to the point they had to redesign it AGAIN.... then nerft it AGAIN.


Point being, if there is a build thats working as intended, and can do what the op is asking... NO ONE IN ANY SANE CAPACITY WILL POST THE BUILD

 

[Xaxx]

I disagree. I data mine and provide analytics for a living for a multi-million dollar company. I paint a picture using only data all the time.

If I had access to the server data I could show what builds rise to the top of the heap when it comes to speed at which quests are completed. Taking into account past lives, tomes, etc. that offer some advantage.

Player skill is a big part which can be be view to a limited degree based on account history. While being a long term player does not automatically mean you are skilled, it can be give a weight in the analysis.

A very simplified example would be.... (this is not a detailed how to, only broad strokes)

1) Identify a quest the was designed to be an extreme challenge.
2) Pull quest time to complete data with a specific data range.
3) Fine the mean average to complete the quest. Taking quest level vs character level into account.
4) Focus on the top 10% where character level and quest level are close.
5) Determine the number of party members that are real players and not hirelings.
6) Identify the class(es), AP point spend in tress.
7) Identify common build make ups.
8) If combat log data is maintained it could be used to determine what is doing the most damage as well as what is mitigating incoming damage.

From here it is relatively easy to see what build/abilities are clearly rising to the top. This adds focus for any potential nerf possibilities.
This become even easier if players are soloing this content at level and blasting though as fast or faster than most groups.

Using the data alone one can recreate any encounter from start to finish.
So that uber/elite build that crushes everything in record time would shine like a beacon in the night once the data is properly modeled.
Some of the stuff I am doing the AI assisted data modeling, the insights and patterns it finds in record time are down right scary.

Now would SSG invest the time an energy into doing this, probably not as there is little financial gain vs time invented.
Is it possible to discover that super build that only those who know the secret handshake has access to, you betcha.

ssg doesnt have the money or level of smarts to spend their money on some version of you....

 

[BotteDaOrbi]

I disagree. I data mine and provide analytics for a living for a multi-million dollar company. I paint a picture using only data all the time.

If I had access to the server data I could show what builds rise to the top of the heap when it comes to speed at which quests are completed.

True talent lies with the players making these builds without that kind of data. You just talked yourself up a lot with this post, and only conveyed that you are not one of them.

 

[Onyxia2016]

True talent lies with the players making these builds without that kind of data. You just talked yourself up a lot with this post, and only conveyed that you are not one of them.

I never claimed to be one of the expert players. I certainly know that I am not.
As for the data analysis side of things I am quite good at it, otherwise I would not be in the position I am in.
The fact that you equate skill at playing DDO to that of in-depth data analysis shows you are either trolling or have no idea how true data analysis works.

Yes there are some players that can take a seemingly horrible build and may it work very well.
There is however methods to account for exceptions, that should eliminate both the expert players from the top and the beginners from the bottom of the dataset. What is left would be considered the target group for the analysis.

If you read and understood the conversation between @The Narc and I, you would realize this was an thought exercise. We both agreed that SSG would not devote the time and resources into developing such a dataset. Only that it is possible.