Shear-buckler
Well-known member
Character progression*
Do reaper enhancement trees make playing in reaper easier than it should be?
- Thread starter PyrotechRick
- Start date
Character progression*
Lazuli
Well-known member
Warlock uses less spell points than other casters.
Reaper enhancements make reaper easier, but not so much that it's easier than elite. R10 is leagues harder than elite, even with maxed trees. I think the progression argument is apt - if there were no character progress gained from doing reaper, it would not be run. It's easy to deride "hamster wheels", but they're what keep people in the game.
What I don't understand is the addition of lost souls. Why on earth did they do this. It's just a flat change from base that makes the quest easier. Once you get into legendary content, it essentially means all casters in the party have unlimited mana. I run only casters and would gladly see lost souls removed from the game. This would bring back a degree of mana conservation, an aspect of play that existed in the past but no longer obtains. Maybe even they would make some extra cash from store mana pots? But they will never do this because of the intolerable whining that would ensue on the forums.
What I don't understand is the addition of lost souls. Why on earth did they do this. It's just a flat change from base that makes the quest easier. Once you get into legendary content, it essentially means all casters in the party have unlimited mana. I run only casters and would gladly see lost souls removed from the game. This would bring back a degree of mana conservation, an aspect of play that existed in the past but no longer obtains. Maybe even they would make some extra cash from store mana pots? But they will never do this because of the intolerable whining that would ensue on the forums.
droid327
Well-known member
Yeah, sure...but no one ever said differently
People only talk about how the reaper points system was unnecessary and counterproductive to the positive aspect of Reaper you point out
droid327
Well-known member
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
nobody would ever say that reaper mode obviated itself and didn't check power creep!
Br4d
Well-known member
We've had reaper for 6 years now and I still do not understand why anybody would play any reaper difficulty level above r1. Obviously increased reaper difficulty levels are not harder once you've farmed out the trees. People tend to play the highest level they can play to optimally farm those trees. That makes the overall process seem just ridiculously circular, like how hard do you like to poke yourself in the eye and what are you getting out of it?
For those who do not like reaper difficulty mode, of whom I am one, the entire reaper process makes DDO much less fun and less interesting because it pivots a substantial part of the player base away from compatibility with our play patterns. The LFM's don't even tell the whole story because much of the player base is using private queueing in discord, largely because they don't want randoms, unknowns or casuals in their groups.
All of this was conceived because a small percentage of the DDO player base was feeling unchallenged by the game in general along about 2017 and SSG decided to create a difficulty level that not only would challenge this small group but also to force the rest of us into playing that difficulty level also by creating significant incentives to do so. The incentives were strong enough to get many people, myself included, to play a difficulty level that we initially disliked and have now come to despise for it's twisted incentives and lackluster play.
I don't resent the idea of giving that small part of the player base a real challenge. I resent the rest of us being dragged in by misplaced incentives and power creep.
For those who do not like reaper difficulty mode, of whom I am one, the entire reaper process makes DDO much less fun and less interesting because it pivots a substantial part of the player base away from compatibility with our play patterns. The LFM's don't even tell the whole story because much of the player base is using private queueing in discord, largely because they don't want randoms, unknowns or casuals in their groups.
All of this was conceived because a small percentage of the DDO player base was feeling unchallenged by the game in general along about 2017 and SSG decided to create a difficulty level that not only would challenge this small group but also to force the rest of us into playing that difficulty level also by creating significant incentives to do so. The incentives were strong enough to get many people, myself included, to play a difficulty level that we initially disliked and have now come to despise for it's twisted incentives and lackluster play.
I don't resent the idea of giving that small part of the player base a real challenge. I resent the rest of us being dragged in by misplaced incentives and power creep.
PraetorPlato
Well-known member
This is just wrong. Higher reaper difficulty levels are indeed much, much, harder, even after you farm out the trees. Reaper trees do not let you deal 6-10x more damage.
The fact that you're saying things like "obviously increased reaper difficulty levels are not harder once you've farmed out the trees" after saying how you don't understand why people play difficulties above r1, and that you don't like the reaper difficulty, proves that you're just talking to talk. Have you even done anything on high reaper before (other than getting carried through it)?
Also, the "reaper grind" is optional. You don't want to grind the rxp and fill out the trees? Great, you don't have to.
What you are missing is that there are 10 levels or reaper mode. People who have a low amount of reaper points, can run lower level reaper difficulty to progress and than be stronger in reaper and perhaps raise the difficulty.
Look at the progression of what difficulty you run reaper on as a whole. The amount of lives on a toon, gear and reaper points will affect what someone can run easily verses struggling.
The point of progressing a toon is to make things easier so you can accomplish high difficulty content.
If you want a challenge, you can just not put your reaper points in or use a toon without past lives. Can do both.
We can all just play the game how we like to play it at the end of the day.
droid327
Well-known member
Nobody is saying that
I'm just saying Reaper points do nothing to serve the purpose Reaper was created for, but instead work against it...why do you keep straw-manning?
Its two steps forward, and one step back. Thats still one step forward...but there's no reason to take that step back
I recently returned after quitting back in... update 46? Before Feywild anyway so something like that, cap wasn't 32 and legendary items did not exist for the most part. Those rings are something that was added by form of legendary crafting after that. And what an excellent addition to the game. Theres been so much cool stuff added since that it's been quite something to relearn and that's why I asked!
Nickodeamous
Well-known member
Got this from the Wiki (see below) for folks that may not realize that there is a MEGA difference between R1 and R10. All the Reaper points spent in reaper trees in the game will not overcome the fact that you do between 10.6% and 15.6% of your normal damage on R10.
Everything is harder on R10. The reaper enhancement tree only negates SOME of the offsetting difficulty.
simple example. Lets assume you already have 100% doublestrike. When you step into Reaper with 300 melee power, you get 24 more for being in reaper mode. that's 324, so that's an 8% boost. This means you are still only doing about 20% of your normal damage (according to the chart below)
So, for me, I like doing high skulls as a challenge...and it still is, regardless of the reaper points. The points are a "bonus" for me that keeps me coming back for more. That's about it.
Hope this helps!
Nic
https://ddowiki.com/page/Reaper_difficulty
Everything is harder on R10. The reaper enhancement tree only negates SOME of the offsetting difficulty.
simple example. Lets assume you already have 100% doublestrike. When you step into Reaper with 300 melee power, you get 24 more for being in reaper mode. that's 324, so that's an 8% boost. This means you are still only doing about 20% of your normal damage (according to the chart below)
So, for me, I like doing high skulls as a challenge...and it still is, regardless of the reaper points. The points are a "bonus" for me that keeps me coming back for more. That's about it.
Hope this helps!
Nic
https://ddowiki.com/page/Reaper_difficulty
Monsters are stronger
- Monster damage is increased.
- Many monsters are Champions, often with multiple buffs. The strongest and most dangerous of the three tiers of champions, the red-crown, is only found in Reaper difficulty.
- All monsters receive bonus to saving throws (Tests in a level 2 quest have shown a +1.5 to saves per skull)
Players are weaker
| Skulls | Player Damage Dealt Multiplier = 20 / (Skulls2 + Skulls + 24) for R1–R6 = 5 / (4*Skulls - 8) for R7–R10 | Player Damage Taken Multiplier = (Skulls2 + 11) / 10 | In-Combat Self Healing Multiplier = (11 - Skulls) / 25 | Outgoing Healing and Out-of-Combat Self Healing Multiplier = (26 - Skulls) / 25 | Crowd Control Duration Multiplier = (12 - Skulls) / 25 (But never reduced below 6 seconds) | Death Timer = 6*Skulls |
| 1 | 76.9% | 1.2 | 40% | 100% | 44% | 6 seconds |
| 2 | 66.7% | 1.5 | 36% | 96% | 40% | 12 seconds |
| 3 | 55.6% | 2.0 | 32% | 92% | 36% | 18 seconds |
| 4 | 45.5% | 2.7 | 28% | 88% | 32% | 24 seconds |
| 5 | 37.0% | 3.6 | 24% | 84% | 28% | 30 seconds |
| 6 | 30.3% | 4.7 | 20% | 80% | 24% | 36 seconds |
| 7 | 25.0% - Spells 23.0% | 6.0 | 16% | 76% | 20% | 42 seconds |
| 8 | 20.8% - Spells 18.8% | 7.5 | 12% | 72% | 16% | 48 seconds |
| 9 | 17.9% - Spells 14.9% | 9.2 | 8% | 68% | 12% | 54 seconds |
| 10 | 15.6% - Spells 10.6% | 11.1 | 4% | 64% | 8% | 60 seconds |
Seppi Pearlsmith
Well-known member
This argument came up when they introduced reaper. One side said exactly what you did: giving power will just make things easier and will take away from the challenge The other side said they deserve reward for the challenge.
The truth is: grind keeps people playing/paying.
TavernBrawler
Well-known member
You can solo R10s on casters when you have enough reaper points. You can solo R10s on specific melee builds when you have enough reaper points. Honestly R10 is not tough like you say, people are completing R10s on first day of quest or raid release.
Clearly the reaper points make it easier. 1000 hp bonus before % bonuses is a massive cushion all by itself.
I don't think SSG can take the reaper bonuses away at this point, but they shouldn't expand a system that is already broken.
On the plus side, R10 is not as easy as elite became prior to reaper. Overall the community enjoys reaper mode so despite the tree inflation it is a success overall. It also creates an easy catch-up mechanism for new players as the trees are more powerful overall than past lifes.
Reaper was all about monetization and that is fine. SSG has bills to pay like every other company.
I don't think SSG can take the reaper bonuses away at this point, but they shouldn't expand a system that is already broken.
On the plus side, R10 is not as easy as elite became prior to reaper. Overall the community enjoys reaper mode so despite the tree inflation it is a success overall. It also creates an easy catch-up mechanism for new players as the trees are more powerful overall than past lifes.
Reaper was all about monetization and that is fine. SSG has bills to pay like every other company.
You can solo R10s on a lot of builds... if you have builds that are meant for it and you know enough about the game and the specific quests you are running. R10 is not tough for people who have been doing it for years, but saying that R10 is soloable simply because you have enough reaper points is misleading - put a newer player, or someone who doesn't know the legendary quests well, on a character with 156 RPs and all of the past lives ... I'd bet they wouldn't be able to solo R10.
1,000 hps (give or take based on % bonuses) only goes so far. Yes, it makes a difference, but on builds where PRR or MRR isn't as high (builds wearing light/cloth armour for example), 1,000 hps goes real quick on R10 against a doom, champ and/or veng-buffed mob(s), veng circles, etc etc.