SSG Please stop blaming and punishing players for accidently stumbling into your bugs - Curse of the Overloaded

[Mordenkainen]

It won't matter.

The much bigger exploit was the Otto box duping.

It's an open secret that a ton of people achieved 160 Past Life+ completionist through duping...

Very few were caught and punished.

Again, it'll always be there. But I truly feel for those that took the hit when they did absolutely nothing wrong.

 

[Mickeymouse]

This whole thing is like that scene in "Braveheart"

"Archers !"
"But, Sire, won´t we hit our own troops ?"
"Yes, but we will hit theirs as well ..."

Longjeans was the best movie villain ever!

 

[Mordenkainen]

Longjeans was the best movie villain ever!

Longshanks

 

[Thief In the Night]

I'd imagine it's because the alternative was leaving the exploiters with a permanent advantage over everybody else because they had a bunch of Double-cursed items that were no longer possible to create. That would be rewarding people for cheating, which is the exact opposite of what SSG want to do.

I am still not understanding this "advantage" in a game that does not pit one player against the other.
If I am not grouping with them, it does not matter or affect me. If I am grouping with them and they are one-shotting raid bosses, ruining my fun, I will just not group with them. I am sure others will eventually do the same thing so they would find themselves with groups eventually.

Remove all the cures from multi cursed items. With the exploit fixed they would not be able to do it again.
Worst thing that could happen is someone who get a second curse via a bug (unintentional) might have had a useful initial curse that they will lose. Not a perfect solution but one that does not require the elusive cleansing card.

It just sounds like have this compulsion to punish the exploiters and they do not care who gets hurt in the process. I have played many MMO's of the past 30-35 years. All had exploits from time to time but never have I see the punishment extend to everyone else like this.

 

[Anuulified]

Yea accidently.

 

[Guntango]

It should be called "curse of the untested curse system".

Just saying.

Curse of SSG works.

 

[J1NG]

I am still not understanding this "advantage" in a game that does not pit one player against the other.

The issue is it can skew info that SSG views of completions, etc when analysing for info like what is the population like at completing certain stuff.

With enough extra Curses on select players (advantages) and completions of quests and raids, means the data compiled will show to SSG that they need to UP their new quests difficulty more than necessary to keep any challenge up. Which will then be skewed higher than necessary to match up those analysed numbers, which impacts all players. So those players without the same advantages will have a harder time about it all.

This is just one possible area impacted. But it should show it's not quite as clear cut as DDO being PvE vs being PvP so there's no difference to players.

J1NG

 

[Thief In the Night]

Yea accidently.

Not sure what you mean. Many seasoned and well-respected players have stated this was an actual bug that did and has happened as a result of a TR Cache issue. Yes, there will be some that claim it was by accident when in fact it was using the intention exploit. But I guess in your world, innocent until proven guilty mean very little. Buy your simple two-word post, one could surmise you in fact would be inclined to use and exploit. The speaking from experience mindset. Whereas someone who wouldn't use exploits would see the exploit as the exception and presume someone was innocent first.

You can tell a lot about someone based on simple one-liners.

The issue is it can skew info that SSG views of completions, etc when analysing for info like what is the population like at completing certain stuff.

With enough extra Curses on select players (advantages) and completions of quests and raids, means the data compiled will show to SSG that they need to UP their new quests difficulty more than necessary to keep any challenge up. Which will then be skewed higher than necessary to match up those analysed numbers, which impacts all players. So those players without the same advantages will have a harder time about it all.

This is just one possible area impacted. But it should show it's not quite as clear cut as DDO being PvE vs being PvP so there's no difference to players.

J1NG

I guess I am of the belief that the majority of the player base are honest people looking to play the game as intended and have fun.
This would mean those that have used the exploit would be outliers (top and bottom X%) and should be discarded in any data analysis.
I am not saying exploits should not be fixed or exploiters, if identified as such, should not be punished. They most certainly should. I just do not see it as a problem that warrants the punishing of everyone. It is not as though this particular exploit was game breaking or really affects most players. I for one did not even know it was a thing until it was mentioned in this release.

 

[Incompetent]

It sounds like extortion to me.

They make a change that forces you to spend money to obtain something to remove the change that you did not want in the first place.
Having a .001% chance of getting a cleaning card as a drop is not what anyone would consider feasible to reverse this change. So, you either spend time and money to replace the item or you spend money for shards to buy ones of the insanely priced card.

Yep, this should like customer friendly thing to do.

The problem is, is that SSG doesn't sell curse cleansing cards. People with double curses regardless of how they were double curse, now have items, that can't be cursed again until cleansed, and those cleansers don't exist in the DDO store for them to make money from. If they did, my brain says 100% this was a great idea, as it gives players the option to spend money to buy card cleansers. Its kind of how they just borked 3 of the top DPS types in the game, and then went on to put +20 HOW in the store, and double points as well. From a business decision to me this makes sense. They made changes to the game that affected players, but then gave players who want a "quick fix" to their character build which now lacks that oompf that makes you want to keep playing it. Thats how you keep the lights on.

Making the change to double curse items, the way that they did is just petty, and has no benefit to their income. If a player is getting extra things, (won't use that word that sometimes can get your account flagged) that SSG sells in the DDO store, then punishing those players makes sense because they cost SSG potential revenue. Cursed cards and the cleansing card can only be gained by playing the game. Cards are easy to get, card cleansers are not. There was no revenue loss by SSG for what players did, either by accident or on purpose, and lets be honest, most curses are not game breaking.

 

[Aelonwy]

Its kind of how they just borked 3 of the top DPS types in the game, and then went on to put +20 HOW in the store, and double points as well. From a business decision to me this makes sense. They made changes to the game that affected players, but then gave players who want a "quick fix" to their character build which now lacks that oompf that makes you want to keep playing it. Thats how you keep the lights on.

You see that as business savvy, I see it as business-sleazy.

However, I have no dog in this fight. I never used curse cards on live, I don't like random crafting. But I have seen lots of comments about players needing to buy astral shards to compete for cleansing cards on A$AH and that definitely sounds like profit to be made by SSG to me.

 

[Thief In the Night]

The problem is, is that SSG doesn't sell curse cleansing cards. People with double curses regardless of how they were double curse, now have items, that can't be cursed again until cleansed, and those cleansers don't exist in the DDO store for them to make money from. If they did, my brain says 100% this was a great idea, as it gives players the option to spend money to buy card cleansers. Its kind of how they just borked 3 of the top DPS types in the game, and then went on to put +20 HOW in the store, and double points as well. From a business decision to me this makes sense. They made changes to the game that affected players, but then gave players who want a "quick fix" to their character build which now lacks that oompf that makes you want to keep playing it. Thats how you keep the lights on.

Making the change to double curse items, the way that they did is just petty, and has no benefit to their income. If a player is getting extra things, (won't use that word that sometimes can get your account flagged) that SSG sells in the DDO store, then punishing those players makes sense because they cost SSG potential revenue. Cursed cards and the cleansing card can only be gained by playing the game. Cards are easy to get, card cleansers are not. There was no revenue loss by SSG for what players did, either by accident or on purpose, and lets be honest, most curses are not game breaking.

I agree the whole cursed cards concept does not really affect much, which is why I never took part in it. I do not want to risk getting a bad bonus on the mystic/reaper boosted item. However, if you had an item that mistakenly got double cursed you can either farm for a cleaning card (very rare almost jibbers blade rare), re-farm the item or spend money to buy shards to be able to afford the card on the shard exchange.

In the cases of farming the card or re-farming the item, you are forced to do something you might not otherwise do in order to fix something you had no control over.

Not saying this is happening but it would be possible for someone within SSG to create and account, put cards up for sale to drive revenue on shards. Again, not saying this is or has happened only that from an optics standpoint it does not look good.

I just think this was turnned into a bigger issue than it really was. Simply removing all cursed on a double curse item would have been a far better choice. IMHO

 

[rabidfox]

I just hope anyone that got them by mistake and bug reported it were sent a stack of curse cleansers to remove this 'fix'; because really excessive punishment would be someone getting them accidently, bug reporting it, and still getting punished.

 

[Incompetent]

You see that as business savvy, I see it as business-sleazy.

However, I have no dog in this fight. I never used curse cards on live, I don't like random crafting. But I have seen lots of comments about players needing to buy astral shards to compete for cleansing cards on A$AH and that definitely sounds like profit to be made by SSG to me.

2 things. SSG must make money to keep the lights on. Selling things in the DDO store helps that objective. Players then have the choice to purchase or not, based upon the simple theory, "the value of an item is not determined by its cost but by its worth". Some players will buy +20 HOW to make changes to their character if they feel that the changes implemented in ANY update make them not want to play the build they used to enjoy playing. To me the +20 HOW is NOT worth it, as I have lots of time, and very little money. But i can understand their decision on putting them in the store. You can argue the morality of that decision, but as the player base dwindles, having people spend money in the store helps.

The 2nd thing being that i doubt that people buying the cards for 10K+ AS on the SE did so with shards sold by SSG.

 

[Aelonwy]

2 things. SSG must make money to keep the lights on. Selling things in the DDO store helps that objective. Players then have the choice to purchase or not, based upon the simple theory, "the value of an item is not determined by its cost but by its worth". Some players will buy +20 HOW to make changes to their character if they feel that the changes implemented in ANY update make them not want to play the build they used to enjoy playing. To me the +20 HOW is NOT worth it, as I have lots of time, and very little money. But i can understand their decision on putting them in the store. You can argue the morality of that decision, but as the player base dwindles, having people spend money in the store helps.

The 2nd thing being that i doubt that people buying the cards for 10K+ AS on the SE did so with shards sold by SSG.

To the first part... this is only okay if the changes were absolutely necessary... I've been playing this game a very long time and it definitely and repeatedly feels like some of the changes they make each year are for exactly this purpose - to knock some builds (not necessarily the best mind you) down so that people make purchases to fix or get out of those builds. To summarize Chai, they pick the winners and losers each year/update and encourage us to pay again and again to not be the losers. We're not stupid we can see the repeat pattern over the years and realize what's happening. Following these "balance changes" up with otto's box, heart and point sales just hammers the point home. Whether you see it as cunning or mercy may depend on how many times you've experienced it.

To the second part, where exactly are the shards coming from then? DD? Even if you accumulate shards from selling bits and bobs on the shard exchange, aren't the people bidding on your items buying shards? Since every auction takes a third of the shards out of the economy, someone has to be buying them.

 

[Mordenkainen]

Exactly.

And that's what makes me MAD.

These punishments DO NOT PUNISH the exploiters. They just take away ill gotten gains for the time being but the exploiters will figure out a way to exploit and get more back later.

It's why 80% of the shards used on the exchange are most likely exploited shards and not genuine.

It's why that dude with 170 past lives still doesn't know how to run three barrel cove or waterworks.

The exploiters are THE problem. But lets try and not round up the truly innocent victims of this bug at the same time.

 

[Kessaran]

Exactly.

And that's what makes me MAD.

These punishments DO NOT PUNISH the exploiters. They just take away ill gotten gains for the time being but the exploiters will figure out a way to exploit and get more back later.

It's why 80% of the shards used on the exchange are most likely exploited shards and not genuine.

It's why that dude with 170 past lives still doesn't know how to run three barrel cove or waterworks.

The exploiters are THE problem. But lets try and not round up the truly innocent victims of this bug at the same time.

Hey, i'm on like my 80 something life and WW is still a struggle. Don't judge me.

 

[Thief In the Night]

Hey, i'm on like my 80 something life and WW is still a struggle. Don't judge me.

You have been judged and found wanting.

 

[Kessaran]

You have been judged and found wanting.

Fine, fine. I'll stop playing fun builds and just go back to sorc spamming

 

[Incompetent]

To the second part, where exactly are the shards coming from then? DD? Even if you accumulate shards from selling bits and bobs on the shard exchange, aren't the people bidding on your items buying shards? Since every auction takes a third of the shards out of the economy, someone has to be buying them."

Those "extra shards" are coming from the same place as the extra ottos boxes, or the extra card crunchers, or all of the myriad of things that exist in game, that were not created by SSG. I know players with bank alt toons still stock full of "extra things" that were not purchased from DDO, but talking about that, runs you the risk of getting suspended or worse.

I saw a gearset with 14 pieces of gear, and ALL of them were the major bonus's. So is that the luckiest player in the world, or did they do something hinky?

There are two different kinds of "features" in this game, ones that don't effect the $$ SSG makes and the ones that do. The ones that don't are often ignored as they aren't worth the time/effort/resources that it would take to fix them. Tell me you have never seen a player "quick recall" from a quest. That Feature has been around 10? years, it costs SSG NOTHING, and as its probably deemed inconsequential, it doesn't get changed, but yet its not working as intended. Now Features that cost them money, should definitely be squashed, and I have no issues with the hammer coming down, that's paramount to stealing.

But if you want all the extra features to go away, and to have players report bugs to be fixed, then maybe keep Lamania up for more than 48 hours, and if you know that its buggy before you release it, then don't release it. But that's not the SSG way. I can't remember an update that wasn't buggy, and if my poor memory is working right, they knew about most of the bugs before they were released, and chose to do it anyway. 2nd thing is maybe offer an incentive to players to report "features" to get them changed. I stopped reporting bugs back in 2022? after i put a bug report in, for something significant, and 6 months later i got a standard form letter thanking me for the report, and that it would be investigated. When players who report things see their efforts to report stuff go unanswered for 6+ months, then you start to wonder why its worth the effort to do so.

 

[HoopleHead]

Anyone claiming they 'accidentally' added a curse, then coming up with some long, convoluted story-time explanation as to how it's ALL so reasonable for them to have made this 'mistake' and how it really isn't their fault needs to suck it up, stop crying, and just admit you got greedy, got busted, and are ready to move on with your life.