Archer - How to get people to NOT play DDO.

Beast

Well-known member
Learn the games and in this case class, also includes the less desirable aspects of it such as attack speed and yes the out of sync shots that occur. The attack speed, while slow is also a means to balance the overall DPS. Is this speed was increase two things would happen.

1) The forum would explode with "Rangers are OP!". This is due to how hard their attacks can be and now they would be doing them faster.
2) The out of sync shots would get worst.

Once you learn what combination of attacks paired with any attack speed boosts creates the out of sync shots they can me mitigated some what.
There is very little that can be change that does not result in a ripple effect. Increase attack speed and several other things are affected which in turn affects several other thing each. Which could make things much worse instead of better.

I am not saying there is no way to improve the class but having played many archers I do not find it to be terrible at present.
i completely agree with you, the dps in archers, is really ok right now. BUT, the out of sync is not at all.
BUT
there could be workaround to solve this issue, don't know how much it could take, but nearly nothing is impossible.
It may take lots of hours to fix (and yes, they clearly have issues with that, it costs a lot and even if they make a lot of money from each of us, we are not as many, so it is a problem)
I still believe that if there was some good coders and programmers this game could shine and outclass many mmos out there, but there are some issues with that, and I can understand it.
 

YeeboF

Well-known member
I'm a bit curios as to what the "Archery is fine, don't touch it!" crowd are afraid of. Martial ranged is one of my two favorite playstyles. Leveling up on a repeater or Inq. is a hell of a lot of fun. In low-to-mid heroics archery is weak and clunky in comparison.

I also completely agree that increasing the attack speed of archery across the board is a terrible idea. Everyone agrees that it's top tier DPS in epics already, so any flat increase would of course not be warranted. That would indeed lead to whining and nerfs.

However, why does it have to be so painful to play at low levels? Would it really break the entire game if attack animation scaling were changed so that the attack speed starts out about where it is at level 12 now, and still has the same hard cap? That would make bows much more fun at low levels.
 
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rohmer

Well-known member
If you want to dissuade someone from playing DDO, just have them play an archer. Really, it will take less than an hour to get them to quit.

Even with 3 trees dedicated to them and so many other 'if using bows' changes to abilities and feats, they are still terrible to use.

Level 20 pure ranger, 35% attack speed, the rate of fire is abysmal. Which makes natural 1s seem so punitive. They probably don't happen any more often than other attack forms but when you shoot arrows at around 1 per second, they are so much more noticeable. Especially since archers have so many active attacks.

Out of sync shots. Really, this is the big bane of this attack style. And it is not hard to see! Just hold down auto attack and tab to different targets. You will be out of sync within 2 switches. This makes archers that use things like Paralyzing Arrows scream at the screen, at least I do. You fire, paralyze, tab, shoot, expect it to hit and paralyze, tab, shoot, oh wait, your last shot never showed up on the target, and the shot you just took at your 3rd target registers 2 seconds after it looked like you shot it.
--This happens with all ranged attacks but seems so much worse with bows right now.

Even the changes to Manyshot are not enough to make this feel good. And don't get me started on the completely idiotic stance you are in while you run with a bow in combat.

Finally, something that plagues all ranged attacks, the shot angle of the projectile. If you are not a small race, you might as well run around in Archer's Focus. You cannot count how many enemies your shots just float over trying to use Improved Precise Shot.

Long rant, but I just dusted off my Ranger and wow was it bad. Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to my repeater.
Archer is my favorite class. Of course, 90 or so lives in helps, and having every bow in the game helps too.

Of course the fact that lag eats 25% of shots and many shot only makes its save vs lag 50% of the time, does make it.. Challenging.
 

Bast1035

Member
If you want to dissuade someone from playing DDO, just have them play an archer. Really, it will take less than an hour to get them to quit.

Even with 3 trees dedicated to them and so many other 'if using bows' changes to abilities and feats, they are still terrible to use.

Level 20 pure ranger, 35% attack speed, the rate of fire is abysmal. Which makes natural 1s seem so punitive. They probably don't happen any more often than other attack forms but when you shoot arrows at around 1 per second, they are so much more noticeable. Especially since archers have so many active attacks.

Out of sync shots. Really, this is the big bane of this attack style. And it is not hard to see! Just hold down auto attack and tab to different targets. You will be out of sync within 2 switches. This makes archers that use things like Paralyzing Arrows scream at the screen, at least I do. You fire, paralyze, tab, shoot, expect it to hit and paralyze, tab, shoot, oh wait, your last shot never showed up on the target, and the shot you just took at your 3rd target registers 2 seconds after it looked like you shot it.
--This happens with all ranged attacks but seems so much worse with bows right now.

Even the changes to Manyshot are not enough to make this feel good. And don't get me started on the completely idiotic stance you are in while you run with a bow in combat.

Finally, something that plagues all ranged attacks, the shot angle of the projectile. If you are not a small race, you might as well run around in Archer's Focus. You cannot count how many enemies your shots just float over trying to use Improved Precise Shot.

Long rant, but I just dusted off my Ranger and wow was it bad. Thanks but no thanks, I'll stick to my repeater.
wow. lots of replies. I'll try to read some. All I got to say is that the build, gear, and game knowledge are key to playing an archer. My archer is a mega-boss killer. I've had 250K crits and regularly crit over 100k (like all the time). My archer is a beast. Would I play him in a quest with a million mobs coming at me at once? Well..I would but it would take awhile. I don't use Imp. Precise Shot...overall a waste and you are correct only useful for halfling archers.



Anyway....if you build it and gear it right....they can be really good. there's a guy in my regular group that has an AA that eats it all and leaves no crumbs. Total trash master. Again...built for it.


however, they suck until you get to cap :)
 

Speed

Well-known member
I already saw many complaints about how other classes suck too for various reasons (I was even surprised to see my favorites), so ranger is not exception.
There are different preferences, so also opinions about each class.
Some people say it sucks and need changes while others that it is their favorite playstyle and do not touch it.
Many suggested ideas do not care about balance and often want to make it too powerful or similar to others.
It is good that classes have different pros and cons, so we have diversity and everyone can find something that will fit them best, but may not be liked by others.
If someone feels that repeater or throwing is better, then should go with it and leave archery for others who enjoy it.
 

Jummby

Well-known member
/Not signed in the biggest way.
I have played and continue to play a bowman archer in multiple versions. Before getting into the effectivness of the ranger I really enjoy the overall play style., kudos to SSG on this class. Additionally, the amount of damage I am able to do is off the charts and am able to bring down NPCs up to R10 relatively fast. He drops a DOOM REAPER as an example without 5-7 shots depending on critical rolls.

Within my circle of other players, I play with about 25% also use bowman rangers either as their mains or a frequently used ALT. I would consider making some additional adjustments to improve playability.
Is the burst dps off the charts, or the continual dps as a whole off the charts?

Also, at the end of the day people want to have fun not just at cap, but as they level. Leveling an archer is miserable. Slow fire rate, lacks dps and overall weak at level till the end game.
 

Cheeps

Tired Member
I raise you monk sneaking archer for even more dev aggro! 😆
I'm going to have to call soon, but...
I raise you a "Monk sneaking archer of a non-furry race that doesn't ride on the back of a dinosaur or wear a cosmetic cape" for the thing that dev's hate the most.
 

Misadventure

Killing everybody on Hardcore with pleasure.
I'm going to have to call soon, but...
I raise you a "Monk sneaking archer of a non-furry race that doesn't ride on the back of a dinosaur or wear a cosmetic cape" for the thing that dev's hate the most.
Umm thats a preference and I dont think the devs care if you use them or not.
 

Cheeps

Tired Member
Umm thats a preference and I dont think the devs care if you use them or not.
Not sure about that, the last two races released were furry based plus I still have to go to my inventory every time I log on to make my cosmetic cape invisible.

(before someone says I don't have to wear it, I put festival bonuses on it)
 

dur

aka Cybersquirt
There are enhancements to increase rate of fire, etc, no? I still say an archer needs a "meatbag," even if it's a conjured Spider. Just the game mechanics...
 

ProllyDidItWrong

Well-known member
This Thread TLDR:
They Said: Archers are broken and its borderline game breaking at best.
Said Them: We know and we don't care because if they weren't borked, then everyone would play archers
They: You are a fanboy
Them: You are a naysayer
They: Imma gonna quit and play 20 other games
Them: Good, see ya.
I'm just looking for the salad bar.
 

Jummby

Well-known member
This Thread TLDR:
They Said: Archers are broken and its borderline game breaking at best.
Said Them: We know and we don't care because if they weren't borked, then everyone would play archers
They: You are a fanboy
Them: You are a naysayer
They: Imma gonna quit and play 20 other games
Them: Good, see ya.
I'm just looking for the salad bar.
Have another egg nog and enjoy your holiday...
 

YeeboF

Well-known member
Archers are fine. if you are under performing on an archer the problem exists between the keyboard and the chair. SSG can't fix that.
I'm really surprised you are able to get the same DPS performance (or hell even 3/4) out of an archer that you can from an Inquisitive or Repeater build before level 10. Care to share your astounding archer build with us?
 

Teh_Troll

Well-known member
I'm really surprised you are able to get the same DPS performance (or hell even 3/4) out of an archer that you can from an Inquisitive or Repeater build before level 10. Care to share your astounding archer build with us?
I don't really care about sub-level 10 that much. X-bow may be better. it doesn't matter if it gets closer in the end game.
 

YeeboF

Well-known member
I don't really care about sub-level 10 that much. X-bow may be better. it doesn't matter if it gets closer in the end game.
No-one is saying they have issues in end game. They are top tier DPS in legendary content, and solid by the time you make your way out of heroics.

The issue is that they are miserable to play at the low levels that determine whether a new player will stick around.
 
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