Archmage was buffed and it feels great for levelling

Lazuli

Well-known member
Is there anything specific you don't like? This is a build for levelling and getting to level 32 for first time players as an archmage. Any specific points you would change?



The issue with damage casting on a first life build without many tools is that you really run into problems with DCs. Orchid blossom works because it does a sizable amount of damage with no save, so while it doesn't do the damage of dragon breath it has the flexibility of always working when you aren't able to land the DCs for dragon breath.

I wasn't super happy with shadow form, but it's hard to get to the T5 of shadow dancer (which is one of my biggest complaints about it) but it's fun to use weird when you focus heavily on illusion.

I'm not sure what is wrong with heal, heal adds spellpower for negative and more healing from shrines, and haggle is nice for new players starting to need a little bit more gold. Do you have a better suggestion? I'm always open to suggestions!
Are you asking what's wrong with that build for new people without resources, after saying that they are going to have problems with the evocation DC? Really really?

Illusion is a horrible specialization for a new player without resources. Your only offensive spell, phantasmal killer, has two saves. As nice as it may sound to have two phantasmal killers (for the third one a new will have no points), they will never reach a decent DC. It's much easier to get a decent evocation DC that allows you to run dragon breath and your other evocations than it is to run phantasmal killer in a build without tomes or good equipment.

An archmage/necromancer is much, much more practical. Necromancy has three offensive spells, finger without the handicap of having two saves, and although circle of death does have two saves, at least it is an area spell and applies negative levels. You get Banshee at 17, not 30 like with Weird. You're hardly going to consider Weird a "leveling spell"! The devs haven't added it to the arcane list, as they should have. And don't forget that phantasmal killer has the same immunities as those three necromancy spells, and a few additional ones (those corresponding to mind-affecting effects).

With finger + soul trap you can kill selectively depending on the enemy's higher will or fort. . With Phantasmal Killer you don't have that luxury, you need to achieve no-fail against each enemy's highest save, and that's hard for a newbie.

Insightful reflex so late in the build is a bad idea. A new one needs it early, to help him with the traps whose location he will not know and with all those evocations that the kobolds and other mobs throw at you at low levels.

The distribution of enhancements also seems very bad to me. Ek is a waste in this context, better to invest into pale master for better cures (you haven't even finished putting all the points to the conduit!), and for the cores, which are much better than what you get with EK. Each PM core gives you +2 DC to a school, or removes the double light damage. Have you forgotten how much light damage as a pale master hurt before you got that buff?

The EDs, sorry, horrible. Draconic would be much much better, and I repeat, it is much easier to make those evocations work than the phantasmal killer. Raise shadowdancer to get evasion, +3 to a school, and shadowcaster, yes, it works very well (the cooldown reduction from draconic+shadowdancer is good for a wizard and evasion increases survival). But that's it.

The third ED, I would take exalted angel or magus, to get more spell points with the second core. Although be clear that magus is deeply bugged: Moontouched affects your phantamal killer spell but not the SLA, negative energy abilities do not break undead immunity if you have the MP enhancement, etc.

Yours will be a build to leveling, but, seriously, Perfect SWF at 31? Better to recommend that they look for 4 pieces of the winter set and get Spell specialty here--- here is the time to get the illusion DC if they really want it, although the truth is, a new one will do better in taking enchantment: the groups to which you join will expect you to have a functional hold monster mass before a functional phantasmal killer.

And if you really want to have a damage + DC (which I approve, a DC caster without damage is very rough to play without a group), Master of Knowledge is not the way to go. Grab at 26 Embolden, which will help with the DC of all your spells, and at 27 and 30 the Ruin feats. Introducing arcane blast into the spell rotation is a waste of dps. Even improved, that SLA damage is that of a level 5 spell. At epic levels you have spells that do more damage in rotation. Master of Knowledge takes time to stack up in significant numbers, while Ruin/Great ruin are immediate, have no save, do really good damage (bane as well), and are even better with the tier 5 draconic. And the ruins when arcane supremacy ticks are sooo sweet.

I could say more things, but I think you already have some things to think about.

Look, being a streamer doesn't mean recommending the first thing that comes to mind. That is like being a journalist who does not verify his sources or prefers to invent his article instead of looking for truthful information. If you are recommending builds for newbies and you don't know what you're talking about, check with people who know before streaming.


.....
Fisto, Heal skill is useful for pale masters, that is well chosen.
 
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unbongwah

Well-known member
I like the idea of Illusion+Enchantment Archmage focused on crowd control with decent(ish) DPS as an alternative to the usual Pale Master build.
Just mulling over how to tweak this build for my personal tastes:
Drow FeyArchmage
Wizard 20
True Neutral Drow


Stats
. . . . . . . .30pt . . 32pt. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . 4: INT
Dexterity . . . 10. . . .10 . . . 8: INT
Constitution. . 15. . . .16 . . .12: INT
Intelligence. . 20. . . .20 . . .16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8 . . .20: INT
Charisma. . . . 11. . . .10 . . .24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .32: INT

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Repair. . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
Search. . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
Spot. . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .11
UMD . . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .11
Perform . 1. . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 10
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .28. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9



Feats

.1. . . . : Empower Spell
.1 Wizard : Maximize Spell
.3. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.5 Wizard : Quicken Spell
.6. . . . : Armor Proficiency: Light
.9. . . . : Past Life: Wizard
10 Wizard : Extend Spell OR Enlarge Spell
12. . . . : Spell Penetration
15. . . . : Greater Spell Focus: Illusion
15 Wizard : Spell Focus: Illusion
18. . . . : Greater Spell Penetration
20 Wizard : Heighten Spell
21 Epic . : Epic Spell Focus: Illusion OR Wellspring of Power
22 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Force
24 Epic . : Master of: Knowledge
25 Destiny: Crush Weakness OR Hellball
27 Epic . : Ruin OR Intensify Spell
28 Destiny: Arcane Pulse OR Deific Warding
30 Epic . : Greater Ruin OR Embolden Spell
30 Legend : Scion of: Feywild
31 Destiny: Spell Specialty: Enchantment OR Evocation


Enhancements (Spent: 80 +1r +1u / Max: 80 +1r +1u AP)

Archmage (42 AP)
  • Archmage Specialization: Illusion, Archmage Specialization II: Illusion, Archmage Specialization III: Illusion, Archmage Specialization IV: Illusion, Archmage Specialization V: Illusion, Master of Magic
    1. Traditionalist Caster III, Spell Critical
    2. Efficient Metamagic: Efficient Maximize III, Efficient Metamagic 2: Efficient Quicken III, Spell Critical
    3. Arcane Bolt III, Spell Penetration III, Spell Critical
    4. Efficient Heighten II, School Mastery: Illusion, Spell Critical
    5. Arcane Blast III, Arcane Supremacy, School Mastery: Illusion, Secondary School Mastery: Enchantment
Feydark Illusionist (25 AP)
  • Find Familiar: Fox, Ability Score I: Intelligence, Greater Color Spray
    1. Twist Reality, Illusory Weaponry
    2. You've Got My Back, Shadowblade III
    3. Spell Penetration III, Magical Attunment I, Refraction
    4. Fan of Shadowblades III, Magical Attunment II
Pale Master (11 AP)
  • Dark Reaping, Pale Shroud: Shroud of the Lich, Undead Augmentation: +2 Enchantment DC
    1. Negative Energy Conduit III, Spell Critical
    2. Cloak of Night I, Spell Critical
Drow (4 AP)
  • Spell Resistance
    1. Arcane Fluidity III

Destinies (Spent: 59 (47 +12pdp) / Max: 60 (48 +12pdp) AP)

Shadowdancer (36 AP)
  • Shadow Training, Step Through Shadow, The Darkest Luck, Cut to the Soul
    1. Cover of Darkness III, Well of Darkness I
    2. Dance in the Dark III, Lithe III, Epic Strike: Nightmare Lance
    3. Grim Precision III, Shadowcaster: Shadowcaster, Shadowdancer Spell Focus: Illusion III, Epic Strike Upgrades: Paranoia
    4. Pierce the Gloom III, Epic Strike Upgrade: Improved Paranoia
    5. Weird: Weird, Greater Shadowdancer Spell Focus III, Shadow Mastery
Primal Avatar (23 AP)
  • This is your Nature: Nature of Thorn, Now Grow: Sky, Weathering the Elements, Regrowth
    1. Epic Strikes: Carrion Swarm, Rejuvenation Cocoon
    2. Mantle of Nature: Thorn III, Primal Spell: Shard Storm, Thrive
    3. Ever Green III, Magic of the Old World: Enchantment III
    4. Nature's Blessing
If you've got a ton of racial APs (or don't have Feydark Illusionist), then Deep Gnome for racial Phantasmal Killer SLA is preferable. But for a lowbie toon like this, drow has its uses.

You might think, "why bother with light armor proficiency feat when the Eldritch Knight tree is right there?" But it saves 7 APs to take Arcane Fluidity instead of level 6 EK core; and APs are more precious to this build than a feat slot IMO.

Epic Destinies: Tier-5 Shadowdancer for Weird, Tier-4 Primal Avatar for Mantle bonuses (temp SPs etc.) and other perks. If SP management isn't an issue, then swap Primal Avatar for a more DPS-focused ED / Mantle option.
 

Fisto Mk I

Well-known member
Fisto, Heal skill is useful for pale masters, that is well chosen.
Yea, OP already point this, tnx. 8)
Thus defeating the whole purpose of the post?
No. It still be Illusionist build, just better.
What is wrong with this mantle for casters? I've been using it on my wiz for 15% helpless damage. Unless I'm missing something here.
You miss 100/300% damage boost from DI/Upgraded DI mantle. ;)
 
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Lazuli

Well-known member
What is wrong with this mantle for casters? I've been using it on my wiz for 15% helpless damage. Unless I'm missing something here.
Helpless damage o¡is good, but overall draconic or primal mantles are better.

^^ 41AP and capstone in PM <--------then this build would be a Pale Master build and not an Arch Mage build. Thus defeating the whole purpose of the post?
The goal of the build was for new players to try out archmage. But archmage is not synonymous of illusionist. The illusionist is a terrible specialization for a new player without equipment, because of the double save from his offensive spells. You can play tier 5 archmage + pale master, mixing damage spells and the usual control spells (hold monster mass etc) + necro instantkill. It's a very good combination, it lets you play the archmage, and it doesn't have the drawback of the intensive DC that illusionism requires. Illusionists are better for veterans than newcomers.
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
Only two PM core options that give DC's are either +2 enchant DC's or +2 necro DC's. Also "Core3 Undead Augmentation I: Undead Shock" that the build takes is one of the PM cores that gets rid of the double light damage. "Undead Shock - +15% bonus to Electric Absorption. You no longer take extra damage from Light"


Assuming you aren't counting the AM's Arcane Blast as an offensive spell? With the recent pass it uses the highest of your spell dc's. Also you can get +3 illusion DC's from the racial tree (like this build does) unlike most other spell schools. Evo and conj can be gotten from Dragonborn's tree, but it both requires more points to get, and the race doesn't synergize with Wizard as much as Gnome does.

Personally I think focusing evo would be the better choice, at least for a new player, since blasting/nuking is more straight forward than instant kills and generally still allows for some effect even if not hitting dc's. If going Gnome, as this build does, illusion is a good secondary school because of how good greater color spray can be.
Those 3 enhancements are the best yeah. I repeat, illusion is bad choice for newbies.

Arcane blast has the damage of a 5 lv spell. Good for leveling heroics, meh for epics.
 

Pineapple

Well-known member
You miss 100/300% damage boost from DI/Upgraded DI mantle. ;)
DI mantle being 1d6+6 per caster level every 5 seconds and becoming a dot right?

I am struggling to see how this is even a 100% damage buff. Assuming that it doesn't proc on every enemy in AOE attacks and actually has the 5 second cool down.

Additionally even if your main rotation is primarily using iceberg, acid well, ruin, greater ruin, DI dragon breath, the two archmage force spells to maintain the 60% crit damage. Most of these are doing far more than 1d6+6 per level.

On a boss that is living a long time, and if no one is using time stop, I agree on of course switching to DI mantle (I have both on my Wiz). I just found DI mantle very underwhelming for most situations.
 

Fhrek

One Badge of Honor achieved
I am struggling to see how this is even a 100% damage buff.
I can be wrong, very wrong... but...

30(epic) or 32(legendary) d6+6 will scale with Spell Power, just it is a huge damage boost over Shadowform. (kill before get touched, kite to not get touched and gear for defense when really in a predicament)

T4 Improved Dragon Breath double the DB damage and the effects of DI Mantle (need confirmation).

T5 Intensified Ruin will triple the damage of Ruin/Greater Ruin.

As pointed above by @Lazuli Illusion isn't the most newbie friendly spell school. Evocation is much more reliable.
 

Pineapple

Well-known member
T4 Improved Dragon Breath double the DB damage and the effects of DI Mantle (need confirmation).

T5 Intensified Ruin will triple the damage of Ruin/Greater Ruin.
Oh interesting, didn't realize the part about it doubling the mantle effect too. I use it to increase the dragon breath damage sure. T5 for increasing ruin damage doesn't need the mantle though, I take that anyway.

Thanks for the responses, wanted to make sure there wasn't something big I was missing.
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
Illusion is cool and good for everyone
Not when you can't reach the DCs, and as I said before, having two saves you almost always have to overcome the strong save in addition to the weak save. No, it is not a good option for new players, without tomes, without equipment.

I've never said it's not cool.
 
New players join groups many times. And when you recommend a build, it better be a reliable build.

If you are going to make them a flavor build, at least make it clear, so that no one is fooled.
idk bud you should probably try playing the game, my caster fighter illusionist landed DCs fine in groups on hardcore without dying on elite/reaper throughout heroics/epics/legendary

maybe be constructive and come up with a newbie friendly guide rather than post that people have bad builds
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
idk bud you should probably try playing the game, my caster fighter illusionist landed DCs fine in groups on hardcore without dying on elite/reaper throughout heroics/epics/legendary

maybe be constructive and come up with a newbie friendly guide rather than post that people have bad builds
Just as helpful as you telling me to try to play the game, when I probably have more experience than you? I have given a lot of advice and created guides for newbies over time. Here I have given my opinion - this build is not good for new players. Nobody has to pay attention to me. If anyone wants to play it, they are very free to do so. But when I give builds to new players, I do them so that they can join the veterans as soon as possible: I understand that if a new player takes the trouble to look for a build it is because they are looking for something mechanically efficient, not a flavor build. If anyone specifically ask for flavor build, then it will be another story.

There are my opinions and my advice. If you think that on normal servers the new ones are going to find an abundance of lfms outside of reaper, and that the new ones are going to have access to the same resources (abundance of content and game knowledge) as you, then okay, maybe I'm not the one who should try to play.

I have nothing more to say. Enjoy the game.
 

I dont Like gimps

Well-known member
Where is ash? ---> Oh its a first lifer/newbie build maybe he tries to keep down the costs...
---->Puts 2 Zawabi raid items in it p0qoßhigewifjq0ue9ighfq

In what world does 6% 30 sp force beats a simple Non raid Dino ash wpon? Beside it being far more tedious to get....

Like it just doesnt make sense IF u put raid items in the gearset for newbies/first lifers (????) Why not just go Elemental chain rings.... the acid proc is god tier the set bonus is goated and Basically covers everything but force/necro SO EVERYTHING U WANT
 

Mindos

CHAOTIC EVIL
p0qoßhigewifjq0ue9ighfq
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Strimtom

Well-known member
Where is ash?
So, Ash doesn't scale force damage actually! Since force damage ignores MRR, it also doesn't work with Ash since MRR reductions don't effect the force damage, which is the primary damage type of this build. Yes, you do some non-force damage, but getting more critical to focus on the synergy with Arcane supremacy seemed like a better fit.
 

I dont Like gimps

Well-known member
So, Ash doesn't scale force damage actually! Since force damage ignores MRR, it also doesn't work with Ash since MRR reductions don't effect the force damage, which is the primary damage type of this build. Yes, you do some non-force damage, but getting more critical to focus on the synergy with Arcane supremacy seemed like a better fit.
Im aware that Force doesnt take mrr into account .... but even then I dont see a world where the force dmg beats your boosted side stuff and especially not if u run chained elems or even Just the acid ring.....
 

Strimtom

Well-known member
How is the DPS of this build with feydark illusionist stuff compares to PM and Sorc?
Staggeringly worse. Feydark illusionist has long cooldowns and does second level spell damage. Sorcerer has double cast speed, 66% cooldown rate, and more caster levels. This is at most 1/5th of a sorcerers DPS.
 
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