I am only soloing, melee builds currently, and always run with a FS hireling. Do these feats, either heroic or epic actually do enough to work them into a build? same question with guild buff, worth a berth?
Augment summon feats
- Thread starter Dythan
- Start date
Well you did not say what difficulty you are playing on.
But if you can spare the feats and is soloing i would recommend it.
so 2 feats - augment and improved summoning. maybe even scion of elysium.
epic destiny: Primal avatar and get bonusses to summonings and maybe magus of the eclipse for grandmaster of summons.
druid past lives helps a bit too.
You can even get some from harper too.
From level 20-23 the summons are not that good. but at level 23 when you get tier 3 in primal avatar they are good again.
If you only do this for levelling and only play r1-r3 the summonings can be quite helpfull.
If you got the permanent hirelings from any ultimate bundles they are good too. the owlbear however is too big for doors...
If you solo a lot i would recommend this.
Summonings and hirelings can be made ok, but are never as good as a real player.
I soloed grim on r8 with hirelings. think i died a couple of times and if you get a vengeance reaper your hirelings are dead.
The level 15 fvs hireling Larafay Do'rret can cast destruction which lands pretty often on r1.
But if you can spare the feats and is soloing i would recommend it.
so 2 feats - augment and improved summoning. maybe even scion of elysium.
epic destiny: Primal avatar and get bonusses to summonings and maybe magus of the eclipse for grandmaster of summons.
druid past lives helps a bit too.
You can even get some from harper too.
From level 20-23 the summons are not that good. but at level 23 when you get tier 3 in primal avatar they are good again.
If you only do this for levelling and only play r1-r3 the summonings can be quite helpfull.
If you got the permanent hirelings from any ultimate bundles they are good too. the owlbear however is too big for doors...
If you solo a lot i would recommend this.
Summonings and hirelings can be made ok, but are never as good as a real player.
I soloed grim on r8 with hirelings. think i died a couple of times and if you get a vengeance reaper your hirelings are dead.
The level 15 fvs hireling Larafay Do'rret can cast destruction which lands pretty often on r1.
aye, sorry. I'm pretty comfortable R1 all the way to 17ish heroic, then Elites after that, and in epics. My hirelings tend to keep up til then start to be way more squishy, and I spend a lot of times rez scrolling them after fights, especially in epics. seems like these feat buffs won't make them incredible, but will keep them from being insta gibbed in epic content.
I only have the lv 5 fawn for permanent hirelings, see if anything hits black friday deals
Lazuli
Well-known member
I really can't recommend the augment summoning feats. They generally weaken your build since you could pick up more useful feats and summons are very very bad in DDO. From an optimization point of view, it's a no-no. On my ship there is room for all the buffs, so I do have that ammenity. My objection to the feats is that they take slots that could be invested in more useful feats, when the hires are very weak and scale badly.
But if you play on low difficulty and if you depend a lot on summons I understand that they can tempt you. My advice, however, is that you learn to build a toon that does not depend on hires for your dps (summons/hires have bad dps), and that you try to keep the hire healers out of combat and call them between combats to heal you. It may seem difficult at first, but once you get the hang of it you will see that it is much more efficient, because sadly the summons/hires are tremendously bad in combat.
If you still want to have your hire in combat with you, intimidate often to keep the mobs aggro away from your hire. Hires have oudated defenses.
But if you play on low difficulty and if you depend a lot on summons I understand that they can tempt you. My advice, however, is that you learn to build a toon that does not depend on hires for your dps (summons/hires have bad dps), and that you try to keep the hire healers out of combat and call them between combats to heal you. It may seem difficult at first, but once you get the hang of it you will see that it is much more efficient, because sadly the summons/hires are tremendously bad in combat.
If you still want to have your hire in combat with you, intimidate often to keep the mobs aggro away from your hire. Hires have oudated defenses.
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On my druid, I use augment/Improved augment summoning. I feel like this works well with the druids wolf, as it buffs him enough so he can easily survive on elite/epic elite.
As for summoned creatures and/or hirelings, I don´t think it´s worth it. Though the main reason for dead hirelings is their own stupid AI, and no buff will help with that.
As for summoned creatures and/or hirelings, I don´t think it´s worth it. Though the main reason for dead hirelings is their own stupid AI, and no buff will help with that.
Lazuli
Well-known member
Which is not very useful in a melee like the OP has said he has. For the same reason, primal avatar is not a melee ED. I still say that these feats will weaken his character, and that building a character that allows him to do good damage and endure a fight without needing healing will benefit him, and even more so if one day he decides to group up.
But he must judge what is most useful to him.
JustHavingFunBro
Well-known member
There is a distinction between does it make them stronger, and does it make them noticeably stronger. As a player that really enjoys playing with hirelings and pets I can tell you with 100% confidence the feats should only be taken if you have nothing else to do. If you think you're going to take Augment Summoning, and later on its upgrade, and think that the hireling will not die immediately you are in for a huge disappointment.
There are two enhancements that add any noticeable difference, and that is giving your summons your epic mantle and the summons upgrade in the primal avatar tree. Even the Great Summoner enhancement appeared to do nothing. Maybe it doesn't stack with something. But I didn't notice a hp or movement speed increase when I tried it out last life. They will continue to be wet paper bags until you get the 3rd tier in the primal avatar tree.
You can't give a hireling ship buffs, afaik. If you mean should you get ship buffs, the answer is absolutely. Ship bufffs are a million times better than augment summoning.
There are two enhancements that add any noticeable difference, and that is giving your summons your epic mantle and the summons upgrade in the primal avatar tree. Even the Great Summoner enhancement appeared to do nothing. Maybe it doesn't stack with something. But I didn't notice a hp or movement speed increase when I tried it out last life. They will continue to be wet paper bags until you get the 3rd tier in the primal avatar tree.
You can't give a hireling ship buffs, afaik. If you mean should you get ship buffs, the answer is absolutely. Ship bufffs are a million times better than augment summoning.
I have found out that Summons/Hirelings (the best are Hirelings that can Summon!) make great distractions or single point characters (just heal/buff me-don't fight). Even with 3 Druid PLs (+6 Ability) most hirelings are meh at best in R1, but I would rather have mobs hit something else instead of me.
Sophie The Cat Burglar
Exotic Items Recovery Specialist
I have a question pertinent to this discussion.
The Cry of Battle filigree set confers fairly good bonuses on 'minions'. At one point, it was possible to equip a weapon with three such filigrees, summon a hire, then switch to a different weapon, but the hire would retain the relevant bonuses. Later, this was changed such that the bonuses disappear the moment the weapon with the filigrees is out of hand. Recently, I recall reading that this filigree set was changed yet again.
Does the Cry of Battle filigree set bonus currently work if the pertinent weapon is out of hand?
The Cry of Battle filigree set confers fairly good bonuses on 'minions'. At one point, it was possible to equip a weapon with three such filigrees, summon a hire, then switch to a different weapon, but the hire would retain the relevant bonuses. Later, this was changed such that the bonuses disappear the moment the weapon with the filigrees is out of hand. Recently, I recall reading that this filigree set was changed yet again.
Does the Cry of Battle filigree set bonus currently work if the pertinent weapon is out of hand?
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Matuse
Well-known member
Shouldn't be hard to check. If their stats update dynamically, then so does their Con. Equip Cry of Battle, summon hireling, check their HP, then remove the weapon and see if their max hp drops.
vryxnr
Well-known member
At the moment, they update on gear swap, so no, weapon swapping away the Cry of Battle filigree set will remove those bonuses from the charms/summons. (and yes, I did just test this to confirm)
Sophie The Cat Burglar
Exotic Items Recovery Specialist
Thank you for testing this, vryxnr. I fed my summoning stick to my dagger a while back. That was probably a bad idea.
Blunt Hackett
Well-known member
Augment Summoning and druid past lives are worth it if you use hirelings. They will survive better and be able to pass DC checks you may not even be able too (the security switches in party crashers are a good example).
For me, I only use Augment Summoning if I'm playing a build that will have negligible consequences and would benefit more from it. That or if I'm planning on using Primal Avatar anyway, which I am absolutely doing if I'm doing a imbue dice build. Shared Mantle gives you and your hires/summons 3 imbue dice, which would be powerful on it's own, but you get other bonuses too!
The one thing it doesn't share is your accuracy, so if you want your hirelings and summons to actually land those hits, you're going to want them to have the highest ability scores possible.
Of course, your milage may vary. The higher in difficulty you go the less helpful this is. But if you are solo and not running reaper, Augment Summoning is a great option. If anything, get those three druid past lives if you use hires. They'll be far less squishy which is a benefit that won't affect your build in any way. They may even be handy for reaper heals if you are good at managing them enough to keep them out of trouble.
For me, I only use Augment Summoning if I'm playing a build that will have negligible consequences and would benefit more from it. That or if I'm planning on using Primal Avatar anyway, which I am absolutely doing if I'm doing a imbue dice build. Shared Mantle gives you and your hires/summons 3 imbue dice, which would be powerful on it's own, but you get other bonuses too!
The one thing it doesn't share is your accuracy, so if you want your hirelings and summons to actually land those hits, you're going to want them to have the highest ability scores possible.
Of course, your milage may vary. The higher in difficulty you go the less helpful this is. But if you are solo and not running reaper, Augment Summoning is a great option. If anything, get those three druid past lives if you use hires. They'll be far less squishy which is a benefit that won't affect your build in any way. They may even be handy for reaper heals if you are good at managing them enough to keep them out of trouble.
Br4d
Well-known member
Many people will tell you that hirelings are nigh useless, lag-infested, flesh-buckets of fail.
I run pet classes in DDO with them with no problem. I also run class related pets and summons with both impact and efficiency.
Augment summoning and any other effect in the game that buffs hirelings, pets and summons is effective below r2 difficulty level. I can't speak to above that level because I choose not to play above that level.
The keys to effective pet use are to maintain control of your pet, to figure out the best tactics for calling them to you and leaving them away from combat, and to be aware that pets sometimes get fatigued (laggy) and to be ready to adjust your tactics if this happens.
Also generally you want your lackeys either to be active or passive. The defend me option is not as functional as just setting them to be active. Healing is not as functional in defend me as it is in active mode and neither is as effective as setting a lackey to passive and manually invoking a heal when you want one.
The skeletal knight in Pale Master is a monster if buffed and used properly. Fighting alongside him with Death Aura running makes him basically indestructible.
I run pet classes in DDO with them with no problem. I also run class related pets and summons with both impact and efficiency.
Augment summoning and any other effect in the game that buffs hirelings, pets and summons is effective below r2 difficulty level. I can't speak to above that level because I choose not to play above that level.
The keys to effective pet use are to maintain control of your pet, to figure out the best tactics for calling them to you and leaving them away from combat, and to be aware that pets sometimes get fatigued (laggy) and to be ready to adjust your tactics if this happens.
Also generally you want your lackeys either to be active or passive. The defend me option is not as functional as just setting them to be active. Healing is not as functional in defend me as it is in active mode and neither is as effective as setting a lackey to passive and manually invoking a heal when you want one.
The skeletal knight in Pale Master is a monster if buffed and used properly. Fighting alongside him with Death Aura running makes him basically indestructible.
ACJ97F
Well-known member
If I recall my Artificer: Druid past lives, ship buff, Augment and Imp Augment, and Harper leadership... are (+25) even without the Filigree set.
The filigree set adds another (+8) total, Melee and sheltering, and having a (+33) later on turns some of those summons into little maniacs.
That being said, if you just need a can opener, use Druid lives, an Augment gem, and the ship buff, and still gain a chunk with less investment.
The filigree set adds another (+8) total, Melee and sheltering, and having a (+33) later on turns some of those summons into little maniacs.
That being said, if you just need a can opener, use Druid lives, an Augment gem, and the ship buff, and still gain a chunk with less investment.