Blanket nerfs

[Lazuli]

if the game changes so a build i like is not viable, i change it. that is what i recommended. maybe my English is not good enough???

Good for you. If they bother me a lot, I look for another game that doesn't bother me so much, because in my free time I want to have fun.

SSG needs to retain players, not scare them away.

 

[popejubal]

if the game changes so a build i like is not viable, i change it. that is what i recommended. maybe my English is not good enough???

Doing that wouldn’t be as bothersome if SSG hadn’t decided that grinding for gear is the new endgame.

“Stay and grind forever so you don’t get bored and leave! Also… we’re changing the rules so your build isn’t competitive anymore and now you get to start the grind from scratch again.” -SSG

 

[Scrag]

melee build(s) the ones that are good are usually players that are far better at the game than i am.

There are a lot of idiot proof caster builds that stomp, period. Minimal gear, massive impact. There are even people out there who perform insanely good as caster dps. Just straight caster. Druid 18/1/1 for example. No need for weird EK imbue, but even EK is pretty bullet proof for r1 on limited gear and lives, because you have so much sustain baked into the build.

Sorc, blightcaster, (believe it or not da, it is a swiss army knife after all!), warlock, arti-repeater, anything inquis. Some of these go up to high r with little help. All of these can be built with massive room for build errors and still manage soloing and low r. Melee, is it _potentially_ better? Maybe, under certain circumstances. But it sure as hell isn't as easily accessible as caster lives or the inquis/repeater lives.

Examples of "you need to know" are things like possibly skipping one or both of the first heavy armor training feats, or the first or first and second tactical training feats, as the cost per effect is so low for the feat investment.

If you blindly took all four of both, that is a heavy feat tax that doesn't represent a wise return on investment. It is hard to pick not-useful feats as a caster, even if you are an ultra noob. An ultra noob for instance isnt going to take throwing weapon expertise on a wizard for example.

 

[albertjr]

Good for you. If they bother me a lot, I look for another game that doesn't bother me so much, because in my free time I want to have fun.

SSG needs to retain players, not scare them away.

i hope someone sits you down and explains how big games work, because you will be very disappointed quite often as every game i have played has changed stats around in order to promote changes in the meta.

 

[albertjr]

There are a lot of idiot proof caster builds that stomp, period. Minimal gear, massive impact. There are even people out there who perform insanely good as caster dps. Just straight caster. Druid 18/1/1 for example. No need for weird EK imbue, but even EK is pretty bullet proof for r1 on limited gear and lives, because you have so much sustain baked into the build.

Sorc, blightcaster, (believe it or not da, it is a swiss army knife after all!), warlock, arti-repeater, anything inquis. Some of these go up to high r with little help. All of these can be built with massive room for build errors and still manage soloing and low r. Melee, is it _potentially_ better? Maybe, under certain circumstances. But it sure as hell isn't as easily accessible as caster lives or the inquis/repeater lives.

Examples of "you need to know" are things like possibly skipping one or both of the first heavy armor training feats, or the first or first and second tactical training feats, as the cost per effect is so low for the feat investment.

If you blindly took all four of both, that is a heavy feat tax that doesn't represent a wise return on investment. It is hard to pick not-useful feats as a caster, even if you are an ultra noob. An ultra noob for instance isnt going to take throwing weapon expertise on a wizard for example.

this is a disjointed mess of an argument, i was pointing out that melee is not really as meta as the person i was replying to was making them out to be. so casters that are good has no contabution to the discution being had.

 

[Lazuli]

For me the advice of moving to another build has no traction. I have alts (as painful as it is nowadays to play multiple characters) to have access to a variety of playstyles. I don't want to change builds because I already have more different builds to play with.

Second, I don't want to respecialize. Respecializing in this game always adds a lot of time (TR, searching for new equipment) and an economic cost (jewelers, sentient toolkits and so on). Respecializing is BORING as well. I want to play, not be forced to do what they want.

Third, there are classes that I genuinely like. Why do I have to abandon them, reducing my fun? When SSG drops the nuke on one of them, I'm inevitably going to get angry and consider pursuing other hobbies.

Although I play a wide variety of styles, there are always some that I don't play (tanks) or that I play less. But would never occur to me to ask for nerfs for them or criticize people who don't want to see them fall under the nerf hammer. What's wrong with you, people? You have to be less selfish.

 

[albertjr]

Doing that wouldn’t be as bothersome if SSG hadn’t decided that grinding for gear is the new endgame.

“Stay and grind forever so you don’t get bored and leave! Also… we’re changing the rules so your build isn’t competitive anymore and now you get to start the grind from scratch again.” -SSG

if you beleive that the endgame is gear someone lied to you

 

[Lazuli]

this is a disjointed mess of an argument, i was pointing out that melee is not really as meta as the person i was replying to was making them out to be. so casters that are good has no contabution to the discution being had.

Melee is meta now. Just because you are in a weak build does not mean that playstyle is not king now. I'm sorry, it's like that.

And the same thing happens to us caster players as it does to you, not all casters have the power of the meta casters.

 

[Scrag]

Melee is meta now. Just because you are in a weak build does not mean that playstyle is not king now. I'm sorry, it's like that.

And the same thing happens to us caster players as it does to you, not all casters have the power of the meta casters.

The barriers of entry to a "meta-caster" and a "meta-melee" are definitely different though.

 

[albertjr]

For me the advice of moving to another build has no traction. I have alts (as painful as it is nowadays to play multiple characters) to have access to a variety of playstyles. I don't want to change builds because I already have more different builds to play with.

Second, I don't want to respecialize. Respecializing in this game always adds a lot of time (TR, searching for new equipment) and an economic cost (jewelers, sentient toolkits and so on). Respecializing is BORING as well. I want to play, not be forced to do what they want.

Third, there are classes that I genuinely like. Why do I have to abandon them, reducing my fun? When SSG drops the nuke on one of them, I'm inevitably going to get angry and consider pursuing other hobbies.

Although I play a wide variety of styles, there are always some that I don't play (tanks) or that I play less. But would never occur to me to ask for nerfs for them or criticize people who don't want to see them fall under the nerf hammer. What's wrong with you, people? You have to be less selfish.

are you playing with a full deck? adjusting a build does not require much effort. for example if i used fury and found it to not be preforming as good i would just reset the enhancements. if i used bastard swords than decided to use long swords i would change the feat. but if i found my build unusable be cause of some dmg nerf than i would question what i did wrong and try to fix it.

 

[Lazuli]

The barriers of entry to a "meta-caster" and a "meta-melee" are definitely different though.

I disagree. People tend to judge what they are playing as more difficult to achieve.

 

[Lazuli]

are you playing with a full deck? adjusting a build does not require much effort. for example if i used fury and found it to not be preforming as good i would just reset the enhancements. if i used bastard swords than decided to use long swords i would change the feat. but if i found my build unusable be cause of some dmg nerf than i would question what i did wrong and try to fix it.

As I've said many times, it's not so much because of this particular nerf, because the blanket nerfs that affect all playstyles are bad and I'm already tired of them. Can I live without dragon breath? Undoubtedly. Why the hell do they do this nerf without compensating casters who have bad dps on the other hand? That's insulting.

And I'm still waiting for the devs to make even a minimal attempt to design more equitably for non-bypass casters than for bypass casters.

And I repeat: if you don't want to hear our complaints, don't enter a topic dedicated to it. Simple! Stop telling people what to do or not to do.

 

[Lazuli]

i feel bad for you, your argument is changing from i cant play my toon with out this ability that is overpowered, to there are too many nerfs.

I have never changed the argument because I have never said that I can't play my toon after this nerf. If you read my posts instead of making up what I said, you would say less nonsense.

And if you read the posts in which I have given feedback you would understand even better.

I feel bad for you, because apparently you need to tell people what to do to feel superior. Now that's sad. Very, very sad.

 

[GrayJedi AntiProPaladin]

ignoring herp derp

(also Again find the irony that those who jump in thread leading with "these posts are a riot", time and again confirmation that they are the ones to then proceed over many subsequent posts to "bait" others with more "riot"-instigating herp derp...typical )

 

[albertjr]

Melee is meta now. Just because you are in a weak build does not mean that playstyle is not king now. I'm sorry, it's like that.

And the same thing happens to us caster players as it does to you, not all casters have the power of the meta casters.

attacking my build with-out knowledge of what content i play in, and with-out knowledge of the builds i have played/moved on from. you might try making reasonable arguments or not replying.

 

[Scrag]

And I'm still waiting for the devs to make even a minimal attempt to design more equitably for non-bypass casters than for bypass casters.

This saddens me a lot. I had a char and some gear and was _so excited_ to play an AotS. But as a scoundrel, not a tiefling (I do not like heroics). Well, without fire stripping, all I ended up with was being miserable. And at that, I had not one, but two pacts/dice I had to juggle because it was fairly frequent that at least one of the damage dice was resisted/immune to.

That is not fun, _at all_. I had the same problem when I grabbed that fancy Outburst from FoM and tried to use it in Vecna content, where massive amounts of the mobs are flat out immune to the damn weapon. Why put a cool weapon in an area _where most mobs are immune to its damage_?!?!

Unless you are bringing a lot of exigencies to the table, spell damage sucks. Thankfully most builds have those exigencies, but when you are playing one that doesn't, my feeling/experience is... don't. :|

 

[Lazuli]

attacking my build with-out knowledge of what content i play in, and with-out knowledge of the builds i have played/moved on from. you might try making reasonable arguments or not replying.

You are the only one who attacked saying that we should change builds and that we don't know how to do it.

The only thing I have told you is that there is no doubt that now the most op buuilds are melee and that melee is in an outstanding position (if you don't believe me, read the posts in which some of the best players in the game have said the same thing), and if you are not in one of those meta builds you are in the SAME position that we casters are in who are not in meta build caster.

Don't play the victim, you are the one who came here to tell us to change our builds and adapt, and when we tell you that if you feel that your melee is weak change it to one of those op melee builds, you feel attacked lol

Don't you like being told to change build? Don't tell other people, you were the first to ask for it.

And all this, If you quote me again attacking me I will ignore you. It's obvious that you only come to create discord.

 

[Lazuli]

This saddens me a lot. I had a char and some gear and was _so excited_ to play an AotS. But as a scoundrel, not a tiefling (I do not like heroics). Well, without fire stripping, all I ended up with was being miserable. And at that, I had not one, but two pacts/dice I had to juggle because it was fairly frequent that at least one of the damage dice was resisted/immune to.

That is not fun, _at all_. I had the same problem when I grabbed that fancy Outburst from FoM and tried to use it in Vecna content, where massive amounts of the mobs are flat out immune to the damn weapon. Why put a cool weapon in an area _where most mobs are immune to its damage_?!?!

Unless you are bringing a lot of exigencies to the table, spell damage sucks. Thankfully most builds have those exigencies, but when you are playing one that doesn't, my feeling/experience is... don't. :|

Yes, basically. Devs have been designing only for three caster classes for years. Even now, when they say they are balancing, I have expressed to them the problems that the current mantles have for non-bypass casters. And what do they do? Nerf style nuclear bomb, but not even a comment acknowledging the problem. When they created the new EDs, these same concerns were discussed by the players, and ignored by the devs.

Warlocks have had problems for a long time, like other non-bypass casters. But for devs those classes do not exist. Every time they design a caster option they do so taking bypass casters as a reference.

 

[I dont Like gimps]

try adjusting you build/play style. also stop the melee is better garbage. as someone that plays almost exclusively as melee build the ones that are good are usually players that are far better at the game than i am. i would recommend you stop relying on meta builds if you dont like the nerfs. most games virtual and physical that have pieces being added will purposely chang the meta with nerfs and buffs. be glad it is not hundereds if not thousands of dollars lost to price drops.

Lemme tell ya something I myself played some Melee builds and to be blunt I suck on them idk why and How but my melees builds are mediocre at best my dps wolf dishes 3digits in r8 vod as a refference now I see guildies and friends having far better melee numbers
At the same time im incredibly happy with my ranged builds they are on par with others Now obviously the moral of the story isnt that Ranged>Melee but simply that I suck as a melee and maybe u2 .

 

[Lazuli]

Lemme tell ya something I myself played some Melee builds and to be blunt I suck on them idk why and How but my melees builds are mediocre at best my dps wolf dishes 3digits in r8 vod as a refference now I see guildies and friends having far better melee numbers
At the same time im incredibly happy with my ranged builds they are on par with others Now obviously the moral of the story isnt that Ranged>Melee but simply that I suck as a melee and maybe u2 <3

You both don't have to be bad as melee, you just aren't in a meta melee build. While now the melee plasytyle is the most efficient of the three, it does not mean that all melee builds are equally efficient. The same thing happens in that style as with casters, there are builds that are far behind the metas and even underperform.

When I hear from devs that they want to bring balance, to me that means that they have to adjust the op slightly downwards without destroying builds as a whole and instead of blanket nerfs that make builds that are not in a good position even worse, solve the problems of those builds to... well, you know... bring balance. Shame they don't do that.

Blanket nerfs are bad because they don't solve anything and even less so if they are overnerfs. They eliminate options, make underperforming builds more underperforming than ever, and don't fix anything in the end.