Neilfladech
Well-known member
This is a great suggestion.
Change to Dungeon Alert
- Thread starter Tolero
- Start date
Nimueh
Member
Time to organize a red alert party where we get as many players as we can in as many instances as we can at the same time and see who can hold the most mobs the longest.
Seriously though - removing the only fun part about the game? blitzing through quests because your mobs are 1 shot and there is literally NO reward for going slower? How about you find ways to encourage people to go through the game the way you'd rather instead of penalizing those of us that play it our way.
Seriously though - removing the only fun part about the game? blitzing through quests because your mobs are 1 shot and there is literally NO reward for going slower? How about you find ways to encourage people to go through the game the way you'd rather instead of penalizing those of us that play it our way.
If you are already killing the enemies that aggro onto you in 1 shot, how are you getting constantly active dungeon alert?
Cashery
Well-known member
Dungeon alert is by far the worst thing that was ever implemented. Let's make things harder on the Zerger, lets buff all the mobs in game, which in turn makes the game lag. Yes the player who is zerging and not killing is also contributing to the lag.. but you know what, DA just added lag to the experience from the get go.
A close second would have to be grazing hits.. still hate that mechanic...
A close second would have to be grazing hits.. still hate that mechanic...
MarkTatsu
Member
Because it still takes longer to hit them then to run past. I think it's important as people have said earlier that there are xpbuffs and various other things on timers. Encouraging the players to speed run to get value for the money spent. There is also not a lot of benefit to getting kills/breaking things.
Solution seems simple maybe have the potions give you xp for a set amount of xp or have charges. Then make the bonus for the optional stuff larger. If you could get more than chump xp for doing optionals players would be more likely to do them.
This gives players a reason to do a quest completely which helps them not get DA. In the case of xp potion change it lower server checks and also helps with lag.
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Phaaze
Well-known member
Another idea for explorer lag.
If you are on a mount you count as invisible. You can only mount in explorer areas aside from a few outliers like the pre-quest to von 3 and if you are on a mount in an explorer area you are likely running to somewhere ignoring mobs so this way fewer actually aggro the players and the whole thing is easier on the system.
I ran to the top of stormhorns on my mount killing nothing and had invis cast beforehand. Got to the top and only barely hit DA green when normally its pegged red the whole time.
If you are on a mount you count as invisible. You can only mount in explorer areas aside from a few outliers like the pre-quest to von 3 and if you are on a mount in an explorer area you are likely running to somewhere ignoring mobs so this way fewer actually aggro the players and the whole thing is easier on the system.
I ran to the top of stormhorns on my mount killing nothing and had invis cast beforehand. Got to the top and only barely hit DA green when normally its pegged red the whole time.
Onyxia2016
Well-known member
I zerg when doing favor grinds. If SSG would make is so when you get the favor for bank and inventory bags once on a life you have it forever, I would not be zerging then.
Having said that if the goal is to show down the zerging and therefor DA that are causing lag, why not add a pretty extreme speed debuff when an alert occurs, getting slower the as the DA alert changes color.
Find a balance where it will be faster overall to not trigger an alert.
Changing the mob or boss difficulty will not stop higher level/well gears folks from zerging.
Having said that if the goal is to show down the zerging and therefor DA that are causing lag, why not add a pretty extreme speed debuff when an alert occurs, getting slower the as the DA alert changes color.
Find a balance where it will be faster overall to not trigger an alert.
Changing the mob or boss difficulty will not stop higher level/well gears folks from zerging.
eshadowbringer
Well-known member
If introduced simultaneously, SSG could revamp the typical way of awarding optional XP and implement a system where it adds a percentage increase to RXP. That might incentivize "at cap" RXP farmers to slow down a bit too!
MarkTatsu
Member
It seems like they just want to punish players for playing the game they setup. Rxp only from completion, timers on potions and some quest being really simple and straightforward. This is the game dev team telling the players
"if you just want rxp then you should do these select quests and zerg through them as fast as possible because the longer you take the less you get and the more money you waste "
The simple conclusion is, if the DA system is a problem and has been a problem for the servers. Remove it. Problem solved. Figure out other ways to milk people for a little more money than trying to make them waste time and buy more potions v
Batman
Well-known member
This is a simple 2 Step Solution:
#1 and most important: Please, please, please convert all current XP pots into "per quest completion" and not timed. You have no idea how much positive change this one simple change can make. (i.e. more support for new players due to less zerging, less lag, more groups on the LFM)
#2 +25% XP bonus for no dungeon alerts. Bump up the XP bonus for kills.
dunklezhan
Active member
I don't mind if the doors lock only in response to a DA trigger, and can still be picked/knocked to move forward (thereby slowing you down and likely forcing you to fight and clear mobs if DA has been triggered).
I wouldn't want it to be as crude as raw mob count. It really needs to be based on current number actively searching or "trying to get to you to kill you" mobs, i.e. those mobs contributing to the dungeon alert.
I don't know if 'just searching' (e.g. think they saw someone but the rogue is long gone and they're going to give up in a minute) can be excluded but if they can, they should be - stealth play needs that flexibility for near-oopsies, or it's not really doable.
dunklezhan
Active member
I like #1 a lot in principle, but unless the number per pot is quite high, that risks incentivising a different but still too-narrow range of quests. I fear the number of quest completions to make it work might be too high for SSG's bank balance. But I do like the principle.
#2 Yes. Very much yes. This is the carrot to go with the stick. DA needs to be bad enough you don't want to trigger it, but actively incentivising a reward for not doing so... that's big brain thinking right there.
And I'll add my own:
Fix the quests where dungeon alert just... happens even if everything up to that point is very thoroughly dead. There ARE boss fights this happens with - happened to us in the finale of the finding dorris chain when the dogs spawned this very week after the lag-patch. There had been a big metal robot and a mad scientist in a forcefield up to that point. ...And then we died on red alert and full party lockup.
Buddha5440
Well-known member
This whole thing reminds me of the triangle (2 of 3) theory... You can have something good and fast but not cheap, or good and cheap (free to play) but not fast, or fast and cheap but not good, but you CANNOT have all three.
If you Zerg, you want it fast, so choose either cheap or good (those who value quest design) and stop asking for both as it can't happen.
If you Zerg, you want it fast, so choose either cheap or good (those who value quest design) and stop asking for both as it can't happen.
somenewnoob
Well-known member
So I assume you will be addressing the single encounters that trigger DA immediately?
Yeah, didnt think so. Because, it's you guys.
Yeah, didnt think so. Because, it's you guys.
Players desire to gain maximum XP.
Players can increase XP by purchasing/using potions.
Potion timers incentivize getting more XP per unit time since it's a limited resource.
Quest optional objectives are insignificant portions of a quest's total XP in most cases. (Everyone goes for Guard Jung's badge right?)
Completing quests only by achieving the final objective is the fastest way to get XP.
The majority of the quest design is trying to funnel players toward the "big boss". The incentives are all to reward reaching that big boss as quickly as possible. Unless you literally make the boss invincible/unreachable at red alert, you're going to change nothing except hurt the folks who don't understand what they're doing or are unlikely to survive. The high power zerg folks aren't going to change unless you change the paradigm or the incentives.
/sarcasm here
If unrestricted aggro is the problem since you've incentivized going fast, just sell packs of aggro dump potions on the store and double charge the red alert zergers so they can kill the boss and pay the price.
/end sarcasm.
20 years of quest design is most of the issue. Years of quests designed using different framework is hard to align but the problem is quest XP and the carrots...not how spiky the stick is.
Players can increase XP by purchasing/using potions.
Potion timers incentivize getting more XP per unit time since it's a limited resource.
Quest optional objectives are insignificant portions of a quest's total XP in most cases. (Everyone goes for Guard Jung's badge right?)
Completing quests only by achieving the final objective is the fastest way to get XP.
The majority of the quest design is trying to funnel players toward the "big boss". The incentives are all to reward reaching that big boss as quickly as possible. Unless you literally make the boss invincible/unreachable at red alert, you're going to change nothing except hurt the folks who don't understand what they're doing or are unlikely to survive. The high power zerg folks aren't going to change unless you change the paradigm or the incentives.
/sarcasm here
If unrestricted aggro is the problem since you've incentivized going fast, just sell packs of aggro dump potions on the store and double charge the red alert zergers so they can kill the boss and pay the price.
/end sarcasm.
20 years of quest design is most of the issue. Years of quests designed using different framework is hard to align but the problem is quest XP and the carrots...not how spiky the stick is.
Batman
Well-known member
What if...
You had a "stop and smell the roses" bonus. Click every dialogue choice, stand within certain proximity of NPC as she finishes speaking. Explore every nook and cranny of dungeon, click on every collectible, open every chest kill every monster do every optional open every door etc.
Yes, the bonus will need to be massive in order to overcome the zerg XP/min ratio. But there it is.
seph1roth5
Well-known member
I think monsters in quests just need to white dot. If the problem is aggro-ing too many monsters (and it is), have them white dot like in wildernesses, so that the whole damn dungeon isn't trying to get to you from 3 miles away. This isn't even a matter of zerging, there's all the archers in chains of flame, random crap in the stairway of castle ravenloft, etc. These guys don't necessarily cause dungeon alert if you leave them, but they're still active and wasting resources.
Again, really don't think this change will stop the playstyle you're trying to (and shouldn't) stop. Seems like it'd only affect people running above level, for favor or quick flagging.
Again, really don't think this change will stop the playstyle you're trying to (and shouldn't) stop. Seems like it'd only affect people running above level, for favor or quick flagging.
Tolero
DDO Producer
That's exactly the thing I want us to be mindful of. Generally speaking DDO encounters aren't always about how many minions you can clear which is what makes it special and fun and D&D-like. I don't want that aspect to change, so our approach has to still feel right by that.