COLLECTION, a storage solution

Valerianus

Former Captain Of The Rotten Shark
i posted this on the old forum and i'd like to copy it here too. i can't claim this idea is my own. other games have this feature and other players suggested something like this, i put together various suggestions from the nice community and added some of my own and baked em into a whole. also it's nice that some things described here became reality-ish, in time. consider the timestamps. but i'm leaving the post as it was, just did some minor clean-up\correction



(heavily edited and expanded, feb 25th 2021)

Idea: a bank that is not a bank and does not occupy space, expandable as needed when new content is released, you put something in your collection, this destroys it, but now you can summon copies back, something for free and something for a shard fee. Possibly hundreds or thousands of inventory\bank slots that occupy zero inventory\bank slots. Details below.

A collection feature, free for all but to have all the features you have to pay the collection unlock \ be vip, accessible via a button in your inventory that replaces the pet. The button opens up the collection interface, it loads on demand only.

You are not interested to buy? No problem, your game doesn't change! The idea is to use this system alongside existing inventory system to unclog it, not replace it.


Let's imagine a left panel with tabs, each tab has expand\collapse lists and sub-lists of categories\adventure packs\where the items belong, and a right panel with slots to fit in\retrieve\activate if pet.

*** THE TABS: pets (free feature) \ wardrobe (free) \ btc gear (paid) \ bta gear (paid) \ stable (paid \ barracks (paid) \ old curiosity shop (paid)

* PETS
No changes in how this works, just migrated into collections, can also stay where it is now and excluded from collection, just thinking at a cleaner inventory interface.

* WARDROBE
Yes, i'm proposing free cosmetic closet. The idea is also to let the players use the system, see what's it about and it self-advertise. It's critical that all cosmetics are made bta. You put a cosmetic into the collection, it populates into it and this destroys your cosmetic, but now you can retrieve a copy of it free of charge account wide. Even if wardrobe is made as a paid feture, retrieve a copy must be free of charge. Another idea about free cosmetic closet, is using the collection to preview them, an option to summon in inventory a copy of a store cosmetic you don't own, that will self-destruct after 1 minute. Well weird idea but if there is no better system to preview cosmetics in store it may help the sales. Another factor, no one will care about free cosmetics at festivals, event, free givaways that occupy inventory\bank space, just drop it in collection and done. All the expansions cosmetics, drop em into collection and just delete them from your inventories, all the festival cosmetics, the givaways, all you paid from the store, yours forever always available account wide stored in a non-bank in a non-space. And this solves the problem of cosmetics being items, it summons copies in your inventory to use.

* BTC GEAR
Your btc gear. As said, you drop a piece into collection, it is destroyed, but you can retrieve a copy when you need for a shards fee, like the ml of the item...will it do? Less? More? To let the system do what it is supposed to do, be light on data like some templates book\database, the stored gear is vanilla, with no mythic\reaper bonus. Ideal would be to have ways to craft the full array of those bonus on gear in general btw, not strictly related to collection. The collection doesn't accept gear with slotted augments\jewels. We can press further and include a hybrid section btc\wardrobe for reaper cosmetics. Copies free of charge. Buy once, yours forever. You already earned it. Btc. What about it?

* BTA GEAR
Same, but for bound to account gear and account shared via collection. All your characters can tranfer gear in it and retrieve gear from it for a shard fee. Note: turn all bound to char on equip into bta. Or unbound. Normalize everything in btc or bta or unbound is good for the game anyway.

* STABLE
For mounts, all of them bta. Like cosmetic, retrieve a mount added to collection must be free of charge.

* BARRACKS
For hires contracts. This is for permanent hires you got from expansions (all of them bta), copies free of charge, you own them already. You need one of them? You summon a copy. Don't need anymore? Trash the copy. The source is safely stored into the collection account-wide. And the idea is to expand the list and sell permanent hires from the ddo store, paid unlock\shard unlock. Let's say you want to glorify Byron and bring him along all the time. You pay for a permanent Byron in your collection, you can have a copy of the contract wherever whenever, also in quest. Pretty much like buying a gold seal from the store. This can be turned into a hire store too. I'm personally not interested in this but maybe some players would buy just not to have to fill the hire folder if they use some hire a lot, a regular one, just summon an unlocked contract from collection like gold seals. Interesting? i don't know...anyway it's another storage saver. Ideas?

* OLD CURIOSITY SHOP
This is for general stuff i did not include or came not to mind. Do you have any ideas? Like empty sentient jewels, it would be nice to collect them, they are sort of cosmetics for your account. We can fit here also the fast travel items, what do you think? Before tr you trash them, when you need them again summon a copy. Or use them from collection interface without having them, as pets, not inventory item but they work from the interface...??? Also boots of anchoring, necro4 sigil, restless isle sigil, stuff like that, copies free of charge.



Less mules, less stuff in tr cache, you have the shared bank anyway and you need it anyway, if you often use some gear, you just keep them in regular inventory, but you can free up a lot of space and you can enjoy the paid QoL of paying for a copy instead of refarm something you already have for alts. Your collection of artifacts (but they should be bta. Really. Please). Those old s\s\s items you don't want to trash. Stuff you hold just in case. If you want to pay you can even delete almost all your mules! you don't need this and doing just fine, well, don't buy this, your game doesn't change.

Anyway the idea is to have a growing storage that is not a storage cause the game grows in time, so you act on a virtual on-demand list instead of on limited physical space. So to say. Does this make sense? It came out of my head like that but i know nothing about the tech. Zero. Is this doable?

Also consider that this would work too as a sort of in-game spreadsheet about what bta gear you own and what btc gear you already have, no more asking yourself do i have it and goes for roll or i need it? Hehe.


It would be also possible, hoarder achievement reward, if you fill the named gear collection of an adventure pack, for example, something like the monster manual, same concept. Maybe some unique cosmetics? unique mounts? loot boost consumables? an unbreakable\non-consumable thieves tool? If an adventure pack has one or more raids, it will also take time and a lot of runs, it will be quite a task. would this create more raid runs? even forgotten raids? maybe yes or maybe no, but i find this interesting.


As previously said, any kind of comment, constructive or destructive, is totally welcome.
Thanks.


Have a nice game!


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(original post, may 10th 2020)

a collection feature, free to vips and to be unlocked with ddo points for others, like shared bank

you don't want it? no problem, your inventory system goes on as is (shared bank, tr cache, etc)

you buy it? now you have a collection tab, actually 2, bta items (per account) and btc items (per char). with items i mean named gear, raid gear also, cosmetics (the wardrobe a lot of players want), mounts. pets already are shared, and this is the base idea.

if you add an item to your collection it will be destroyed, but a copy may be recalled anytime by paying a small astral shards fee. the copy will be bta if originally bta, and btc if btc (like raid gear) of course. reaper\mythic bonuses variants will be saved and be summonable if you copy such an item in your collection.

no cost will be applied to cosmetics since the purpose of including cosmetics in this idea is the wardrobe concept and intended use.

less mules (if any), almost non-existent tr cache (thus no need to rework it), you have the shared bank anyway. happy players. sure the need for more space will be no more, thus less inventory management related purchases, and less chest rerolls, and that's why i said that the copy should cost a shard fee. moreover, not everyone create mules and not everyone reroll. but they may interested in such a system, thus they are spending in something they were not spending before. it may work business-wise. maybe. no idea, i admit it.


any kind of comment, constructive or destructive, is totally welcome. thanks.


have a nice game!
 
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Upvote 8

Ahpuch

Well-known member
No offense but it seems like a convoluted system to maintain inventory that should not actually be an issue for any reasonably written inventory system. It would then add maintenance issues that the catalog system would need to be updated (correctly) with every release of new content. It can't handle augments (and I assume filigrees) and it needs extra data to maintain mythic and reaper bonuses. Loot gen (random items) would need to store all the item details and thus would get little benefit. It should probably handle wear on items as well.

In the end it seems like more opportunities to mess things up delivered by the same team that has given us the current bank system. If they can find the time and skill to write this, they can likely more easily make the banking system work so that this is not needed.

It's not so much that I am against the idea as I would prefer that they simply resolved the outstanding issue with the bank. This is a solution that should not be required.
 

droid327

Well-known member
I'd love to see Collections, though I think for practical reasons it'd have to be only for base items and not have separate entries for all the various permutations of Reaper and Mythic bonuses. Its super annoying having to farm the same item again after you already got it once, so that you dont need to mule-swap it between characters...

The big issue there, of course, is cloning items and then feeding them to Sentient weapons. Dunno how you could prevent that, without needing to code two versions of every named item in the game: a regular version and an unfeedable version.
 

Kritikal

Well-known member
Here is a solution:

Increase the storage in the SHARED bank.

It is already customizable. I set my tabs up to have a Wardrobe button (for my cosmetics). So I don't need a separate space. Would separate space be nice? Yes, but unnecessary.

The only thing NEEDED is for SSG to expand the amount of storage. I would be OK if they sell it at 100 spaces a clip. Not 20.
 

Buddha5440

Trainer of those who beat dead horses
Here's another solution...

DON'T HOARD!

There are very few items (none, IMHO) that are necessary for a build to be good. It is up to the player and their skill set to accomplish that.

Inventory management is a PitA but it's much less than it could be. A player with high STR can carry upwards of 255 TONS of equipment; and that's not counting the 4.3 million of coins they are carrying around.
 
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calouscaine

Grouchy Vet
The collection idea has been done in other games, swtor for instance. Base items, not special ones, but they can all be upgraded via the crafting system there, which is what ddo doesn't have. DDO crafting is rather. . .archaic to be honest.
A collection system would have to be very stream lined for it to work, i.e. base items which can be upgraded, with no special stats on them. Otherwise it becomes a coding nightmare which takes up a lot of data.
I do think that the inventory - specifically bank space - needs a bit of an expansion. But with out some major overhauls I don't think that a collection system is possible on DDO unless multiple systems are changed to stream line it.
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
Here is a solution:

Increase the storage in the SHARED bank.
This gets to the core of the problem with the OPs suggestion. If the collection idea is to increase space then they can simply increase the space in the current system. They may have to do further tweaking and clean up bugs but that work would be far less and easier than creating this collection system.

The biggest problem is that SSG wants to trickle in small amounts of space at inflated prices. If they don't want to give up that income stream then they won't give it up to create this collection system. A collection system where you can put in 10 items for 500 points doesn't help anything and just creates a host of new problems. Suggesting alternative inventory storage is missing the real problem which is SSGs monetization needs.
 

Valerianus

Former Captain Of The Rotten Shark
No offense but it seems like a convoluted system to maintain inventory that should not actually be an issue for any reasonably written inventory system. It would then add maintenance issues that the catalog system would need to be updated (correctly) with every release of new content. It can't handle augments (and I assume filigrees) and it needs extra data to maintain mythic and reaper bonuses. Loot gen (random items) would need to store all the item details and thus would get little benefit. It should probably handle wear on items as well.

In the end it seems like more opportunities to mess things up delivered by the same team that has given us the current bank system. If they can find the time and skill to write this, they can likely more easily make the banking system work so that this is not needed.

It's not so much that I am against the idea as I would prefer that they simply resolved the outstanding issue with the bank. This is a solution that should not be required.

no problem, but i don't understand your point. maybe you are focusing too much on the storage part, this is not a storage replecement, this is a QoL add-on, but this is way more than a storage, it's not about just storing. it isn't for random loot or fili or augs, never mentioned em....for that there's the standard storage. i'm talking about dematerialize named btc and bta items, and it has a lot of implications, like saving a lot of data by deleting mules and dramatically shrinking the dreaded tr caches, and saving a lot of log-relogs while muling, while allowing you to check in quest if you own something or not. pure paid QoL, but a real QoL and that's money. on the top of the monetization of the standard storage that is untouched and we need it anyway and will be sold anyway.

when i originally wrote this, i was thinking about pet tab works account-wide. this suggestion pre-dates stuff like stables, copies hand-over concept that started with saltmarsh, and now the newest release notes have something about "dematerializing" (like i like to say lol sorry) some certificates. it also pre-dates teleporters consolidation. i'm not saying i'm cool, i'm stupid and often a raving lunatic,, i'm saying that slowly we are seeing a trend and i really like it! a lot of stuff written here, that is, the same stuff other players suggested in the years, or variations of community suggestions, became real following some core concepts that underline such suggestion.

also this would solve the issue with bank, because it will grow in time by default. i don't see this as less monetization, on the contrary, in the long run i see this as a solution to stop frustrating players and stop exploiting players by selling crumbles and leveraging a bad bad bad storage system instead of changing it. frustrating your customer and letting them hope for a storage pass making them waiting for years....and then selling them 2x20 bank spaces that cost more than the others and that's it....look if this is how they fix storage i don't understand what hopes can we have for our old storage, it needs help, probably it's not even possible to mess with it that much anymore, they really need our suggestion, any suggestion, hoping some concepts will translate into some add-on to unclog it.
 

Valerianus

Former Captain Of The Rotten Shark
I'd love to see Collections, though I think for practical reasons it'd have to be only for base items and not have separate entries for all the various permutations of Reaper and Mythic bonuses. Its super annoying having to farm the same item again after you already got it once, so that you dont need to mule-swap it between characters...

The big issue there, of course, is cloning items and then feeding them to Sentient weapons. Dunno how you could prevent that, without needing to code two versions of every named item in the game: a regular version and an unfeedable version.

in the suggestion, about mythic\reaper, it is said you can overwrite your piece of gear with a new one. so no multiple entries. yeah it would be bad.

i don't see the sent food issue. i'm proposing copies to cost shards. and they are already selling sent exp via boxes. no need imho to prevent what they are already doing, a useless complication. even if someone do that by paying an unordinate amount of shards....well i don't think ssg will complain :)

the point is, if this collection system was real, how many shards should a copy cost? mmmm, tricky.
 

droid327

Well-known member
in the suggestion, about mythic\reaper, it is said you can overwrite your piece of gear with a new one. so no multiple entries. yeah it would be bad.

the point is, if this collection system was real, how many shards should a copy cost? mmmm, tricky.

I dont think thats how it works, though. In order to actually save space, the game wouldnt save everyone's individual items (or else why not just give more Shared Storage, which they've said is a technical limitation), it'd have a book of generic "templates" that you could activate by inserting the corresponding item (even if it was a Mythic/Reaper version). It would have to have a separate "template" for each permutation of Reaper and Mythic bonuses on each item, which obviously is not going to work.

If the copy fee was in AS, then it should probably set cost=ML, since that's 2 rerolls at-level and that's about how much on average it takes to get a named item
 

Col Kurtz

Well-known member
This idea would work for raid and event gear...really anything named. Star Trek online has this for event ships and equipment. You can try it, toss it, and get it back off the event tab anytime.

Any Help with inventory would be huge. We have the same bank system from before Epic, and they have released hundreds of items and equipment options since then.

At least sell us 50-100 bank slots at a time...instead of 10. Its torture to stash equipment in the auction, or on alts.
 

Misadventure

Killing everybody on Hardcore with pleasure.
In d&d there are things like dimension bags, pocket dimensions, etc.

So we can carry bags that only weight as heavy as the bag, it will be expensive of course.

Multiple tr players can have access to pocket dimension. Say 3 tr-s or more.

Alternately, you can have an idol, the idol can summon the spirit of a trapped kundark banker dwarf that for some reason no one understands can give you access to the bank you have even in quest.

Or you can have the same idol, the idol can summon a window that is tied to a chest on your ship, you can put in or take out things from there, even in quest. You can do your housekeeping after the quest.

Even more convoluted you can summon koblod caravan! They will carry all the things for you and moan and whine all the way! After a while the caravan will disappear but will still be carrying the things you ask them to carry when you summon them again.
FYI Koblod hates you.
 

Valerianus

Former Captain Of The Rotten Shark
I dont think thats how it works, though. In order to actually save space, the game wouldnt save everyone's individual items (or else why not just give more Shared Storage, which they've said is a technical limitation), it'd have a book of generic "templates" that you could activate by inserting the corresponding item (even if it was a Mythic/Reaper version). It would have to have a separate "template" for each permutation of Reaper and Mythic bonuses on each item, which obviously is not going to work.

If the copy fee was in AS, then it should probably set cost=ML, since that's 2 rerolls at-level and that's about how much on average it takes to get a named item

i have no idea about tech stuff...but what you say makes total sense and it fits with the concept of it being "light and space saving"! that means it's better then to have vanilla gear and use the regular storage for permutations. also when the suggestion was written, there was no adding reper bonus to gear, now there is, the option to add mythic would be very welcome and do the trick and fit in...vanilla in collection, still a massive boon to complete a gearset on the spot by paying QoL instead of wasting hours of farm\refarm or muling....possibly days or weeks if teh random hates you and you ransack. vanilla gear out of the collection and then add eventually some bonus.

thank you, this totally needs to be edited in the OP, it sounds fine and fits. also the pricing you suggest seems fair.
 

RubMyBuddha

New member
I think this is a good idea (except for the needing shards part). Most people I know like collecting things. I think it would be fun to try to "complete" the collection. I also think this could be a money maker for the game. Introduce this system with free collections for old content items, then sell new tabs for the expansions. The bottom line is this... if the system doesn't generate the same or more income for the company than selling space & character slots, then it will never happen. It takes money to keep this game running.

Having said that, I to like collecting things and hate to feed items to my sentient weapon that I think I might use later on another life. So like many I have started creating alts just to store items. I can still get all the space I need, its just a big PITA that makes the game less fun. They wouldn't do all of these, but here are some ideas that could make such a system interesting / fun...
  1. When completing a collection tab, you get a feat (like a past life feat). Maybe +1 Haggle, or +1% crafting XP.
  2. When completing a collection tab, augments for items in that collection are free to unslot.
  3. When completing a collection tab, items in that collect spawn with +2 Mythic boost.
 

Valerianus

Former Captain Of The Rotten Shark
I think this is a good idea (except for the needing shards part). Most people I know like collecting things. I think it would be fun to try to "complete" the collection. I also think this could be a money maker for the game. Introduce this system with free collections for old content items, then sell new tabs for the expansions. The bottom line is this... if the system doesn't generate the same or more income for the company than selling space & character slots, then it will never happen. It takes money to keep this game running.

Having said that, I to like collecting things and hate to feed items to my sentient weapon that I think I might use later on another life. So like many I have started creating alts just to store items. I can still get all the space I need, its just a big PITA that makes the game less fun. They wouldn't do all of these, but here are some ideas that could make such a system interesting / fun...
  1. When completing a collection tab, you get a feat (like a past life feat). Maybe +1 Haggle, or +1% crafting XP.
  2. When completing a collection tab, augments for items in that collection are free to unslot.
  3. When completing a collection tab, items in that collect spawn with +2 Mythic boost.

thank you for feedback.

the shard fee part, while i'm suggesting it and at the same time i dislike it myself, lol, is exactly there for the purpose of monetization. it's pretty clear that anything storage-related is handled by ssg with extreme monetization, no matter players inconvenience\complaints, so that fee is there for the sake of suggesting something while being real. also, since we are talking about a system that does not invalidate the current one, so the current one can still be sold as it is, but a QoL add-on, if there's real QoL you can also include a small cost, nothing wrong with it imho, ssg is a company.

for the second part i agree, i like to collect things too, but my mules storage get strictly developed with favor only out of principle. a collection system will make everything more fun instead of a chore (and i would spend in something i'm not spending in now).

i really like the point number 3. some way to add those kind of bonus should be there anyway, in general, independently from this collection suggestion, can be done this way you are proposing instead of creating yet another craft system. the other 2 seems to clash with monetization, but nothing against those. for sure there should be some little reward, even cosmetic only, to have fun if you are a hoarder, an achiever, or both. i think also the lfm would profit....imagine people wanting to complete some raid loot collection....like, the titan raid too hehehe :)
 
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