I keep being told to stop using charms even before kills = xp update.

[Tilomere]

Leveling 20-30 in legendary midskull reaper where charms only last a handful of seconds as an enchanter Acolyte of the Skin.

Murder hobo patch hasn't even hit yet and people want me to stop using charms already. Next patch won't even be able to use them in heroics because it will cost xp.

 

[Arkat]

Devs hate charms almost as much as they hate Monks.

 

[TeamScorpioRI]

Devs hate charms almost as much as they hate Monks.

Nah.... Charms still work, so obviously they like them better.

 

[vryxnr]

I don't like charms, and haven't for years, for a few reasons.

1: Unlike regular CC, you can't damage them, and they'll eventually become un-charmed and attack you again.
2: Many quests have kill requirements (aka: this barrier will not go down until specific enemies are killed) and charms slow this down significantly by forcing you to wait for it to wear off so you can kill what the quest requires you to kill.
3: Unreliable aggro. They generate their own aggro and act with their own crappy AI, making things more chaotic/messy. I like to control my fights, or at least know that those with me have the same goal and we can work together to keep the combats controlled and efficient. Charms, Summons, and Hirelings don't do this.

...and the upcoming planned changes will add another reason. Charms don't count as defeated. I'd guess those who are telling you to stop know that habits don't change on a whim, and want you to get into the habit of not charming enemies early so that once the changes do go live, you'll already be with the program instead of causing grief then.

 

[Tilomere]

Heheh, maybe I should swap to fear spam instead to go with Acolyte of the Skin design...

As a level 23 warlock, you can toss a mass charm into a midskull legendary reaper group of 6 mobs and 2 reapers, charm the succeptible half of them, and they tear up the other half with Magus Mantle. Then replace charm with hold and clean up the enchantment-susceptible half. Tactical divide and conquer slower play style. Like assassin.

But that doesn't fit the gameplay that evolved because rewards only favor AoEing down everything at once. Maybe if XP/RXP/SXP are normalized by time in a dungeon...

 

[Terpilar]

Really?

Opening an encounter from afar (i.e. enlarged) with a single-target charm or (better) confusion is an effective tactic for grouping mobs while avoiding direct aggro - and reapers/champs tearing other mobs apart are always a rejoicing sight.

 

[Tilomere]

If you mass charm 180 CR of mobs, the charmed mobs mantles do 180d6 + 1080 cold and 180d6 + 1080 negative damage, before spell power, AoE. It's pretty gnarly for a lvl 23 warlock in midskull legendary reaper.

I think next life I'll try out PL:warlock for opening up on despair reapers.

 

[Zuldar]

They should leave charms as they are now since they're lower level spells but adjust dominate spells to allow for attacking them while they're charmed. It makes thematic sense since charmed mobs are still in control of their actions as opposed to dominate.

Alternatively allow attacking charmed mobs but than either give them an additional save or break the charm and apply a short confusion effect.

 

[VinoeWhines]

They should leave charms as they are now since they're lower level spells but adjust dominate spells to allow for attacking them while they're charmed. It makes thematic sense since charmed mobs are still in control of their actions as opposed to dominate.

Alternatively allow attacking charmed mobs but than either give them an additional save or break the charm and apply a short confusion effect.

Ya a short confusion would be nice as to them trying to figure out what was going on and where are they at; and a lost of balance to easily cause them to fall down as they are confused.

 

[Dayvyd]

I don't like charms, and haven't for years, for a few reasons.

1: Unlike regular CC, you can't damage them, and they'll eventually become un-charmed and attack you again.
2: Many quests have kill requirements (aka: this barrier will not go down until specific enemies are killed) and charms slow this down significantly by forcing you to wait for it to wear off so you can kill what the quest requires you to kill.
3: Unreliable aggro. They generate their own aggro and act with their own crappy AI, making things more chaotic/messy. I like to control my fights, or at least know that those with me have the same goal and we can work together to keep the combats controlled and efficient. Charms, Summons, and Hirelings don't do this.

...and the upcoming planned changes will add another reason. Charms don't count as defeated. I'd guess those who are telling you to stop know that habits don't change on a whim, and want you to get into the habit of not charming enemies early so that once the changes do go live, you'll already be with the program instead of causing grief then.

For #2 - can use Dismiss Charm feat that all casters get to end charms earlier and not have to wait

 

[Enoach]

Charming mobs is a playstyle that does not always play well with other playstyles. It is always best to self-analyze if this is working for the current party in which you are a member and make adjustments.

The addition of the Dismiss Charm feat was a great solution to the need to dismiss charms.

What I have found to be good uses of charm/dominate abilities
1. Single "charm" to pack a group on the aggro'd "charmed" - great for maximizing AOE abilities or providing sneak attack options
2. Mass "charm" on the flank of a pack. This creates a pincer and can turn that aggro back

In reaper it is still very important to reduce incoming damage and well used charms can be effective in that way.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

At least in my experience charms often slow down quest completion. I would prefer cc vs. charms for faster quest completion.

 

[Zuldar]

Charming mobs is a playstyle that does not always play well with other playstyles. It is always best to self-analyze if this is working for the current party in which you are a member and make adjustments.

The addition of the Dismiss Charm feat was a great solution to the need to dismiss charms.

What I have found to be good uses of charm/dominate abilities
1. Single "charm" to pack a group on the aggro'd "charmed" - great for maximizing AOE abilities or providing sneak attack options
2. Mass "charm" on the flank of a pack. This creates a pincer and can turn that aggro back

In reaper it is still very important to reduce incoming damage and well used charms can be effective in that way.

The problem though is there are other enchantment spells that do the job better. Any class with mass charm monster also gets access to mass hold monster which lasts longer, doesn't prevent attacking the mob, and adds helpless damage. That extra helpless damage will far outweigh whatever meagre damage those mobs might do if their AI decides to actually do something.

Charms just need a complete rework to even make them viable let alone something that will work in a party format.

 

[seph1roth5]

I remember charm being mvp back when 20 was the cap and there was only one epic difficulty. But nowadays like someone mentioned, it just makes fights more complicated and take longer.

 

[DBZ]

Til where's the new and improved Critzilla Arti build at combo'd with all the new changes and ED

Please no more charms lol

 

[Enoach]

I'm more of the mind of "Poorly used charms" slow things down. Strategically used charms will help the right group be successful.

If the party Stomps the quest, then charms are a waste. If it is more a game of cat and mouse where who is the cat and who is the mouse constantly changes, then charm(s) will turn the tide in the party's favor.
Know your party and work from there.

 

[Tilomere]

Til where's the new and improved Critzilla Arti build at combo'd with all the new changes and ED

Please no more charms lol

Have to wait for the ED to drop to test to see what works and which runearm shots function. I'm liking the idea of Machination of Madness on a 20 wizard archmage. Once I add solid single target dps to an AoE gib machine, everything is smooth sailing.

 

[Suggestion]

I like the confuse at long range opening shot tactic, all the mobs gather together and target him. I use it as a warlock.
Also it is not just casters who get Dismiss Charm, I believe everyone gets it now since anyone has a chance of charming mobs with the right enhancements or gear (eyes of charming, etc.)

 

[Bjond]

There are two uses I have for charms:

• sub-cap long range charm gathers a spread-out pack tightly for a nice AE swat
• high-reaper charm prevents vengeance reapers from being killed too soon by AE splashback

By far my favorite charm skill is the Shiradi charm. It's an SLA (can full meta for cheap use), short duration, short CD, and high DC. I use Suggestion when not in Shiradi.

 

[VinoeWhines]

What are the available ways to charm as a non caster?