Ideas for new puzzle styles

droid327

Well-known member
While its nice to have non-combat puzzles as part of quest progression, the current styles have some issues...

Mirror puzzle, tile puzzle: always the same solution, so quickly learned.
Pentagram puzzle: Always start fully dark/light, so always the same solution. Even if you randomize it, too, there's only a few rules to learn to quickly solve them
Dice puzzle: Hell to the no. No one likes these. They're overly hard, and prone to issues with lag as well. Plus, always same solution
Blackout puzzle: easy trick to solve most configurations
Floating ball puzzle: only a few preset configs for each one, and a good challenge level, though easily memorized if there's only one config (eg Saltmarsh hilltop)
"Simon" puzzle: this one's fairly good, its randomized and not too problematic (aside from occasional lag spikes)

I think it would be good to come up with some other puzzle types that are both engaging and able to be fully randomized, since that creates the most replayability. I think looking at some simple board/paper games would be a good place to find inspiration:

"Battleship" puzzle: 5x5 tile of lights. 3(?) tiles are "hits", chosen at random. Player selects a tile, it flashes for 2 seconds, and then lights up red (miss) or hit (green). Find all 3 hits, and proceed.

"Sudoku" puzzle: 3x3 tile of lights, lights cycle red-blue-green. Two tiles are randomly preset and cannot be changed. Goal is to cycle the tiles so there is one of each color in each row and column. Preset tiles are always in different rows and columns and are different colors, this ensures no unsolvable puzzle.

"Mastermind", or "Wordle" puzzle: Row of 6 tiles with a lever. Tiles cycle between 6 runes. A random pattern is chosen. Player sets a pattern, pulls the lever. Correct runes in the correct space light up green. Runes that are in the pattern, but in the incorrect space, light up yellow. Iterate until the correct pattern is complete.

"Glass Bridge" puzzle: Sequence of 6(?) pairs of tiles in a vertical sequence. Bottom two tiles are lit up white and selectable, the rest are dark. One of the two is correct. Choose it, and it lights up green and the next two tiles above it activate. Choose the wrong one, it flashes red for 1 second and the puzzle resets.

"Last Crusade" puzzle, more difficult variation on Glass Bridge: Floor tile grid, size of grid can vary, High Gravity effect. One extra tile on each side for "start" and "finish". There is a "safe" path, randomly chosen, through the tiles to the other side. Stepping on a "good" tile lights it up. Stepping on a "bad" tile teleports you back to the start tile.

Any other randomizeable puzzle inspirations you can think of that would be easy to import into DDO?
 
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droid327

Well-known member
you'd have to be careful not to rip-off the mechanic from the IP of another game company

I dont think any of these are specific enough to constitute a protected IP

There are plenty of copycat games of things like Battleship, they just cant use the actual trademark names or pieces, etc.
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
If nothing else I hope we never ever see a mirror puzzle again.

Man I so hate those! 🤬
I could handle a mirror puzzle if they take some suggestions from the other thread on making the mirror interaction more fluid/bi-directional. I would also like it if they added a fail condition to make them interesting and some randomization so that one has to think at least a bit..
 

l_remmie

Well-known member
I'm all for new puzzles.

Easier said then done though.
They have to be solvable, not so hard you need to grab a calculator.
They have to be straight forward and "grokkable" Cultural background and language should not matter.
They have to fit the quest somewhat. A mindflayer would like a word/math puzzle in it's lair, a demon would not.
They need to fit the quest pacing and rewards. Difficult time consuming puzzles should give big rewards, ie extra named item chests.

And most of all, they have to be BUGFREE. There is nothing worse then spending a lot of time on a puzzle for it to bug out or 2 seconds of lag making it impossible to complete.
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
I'm all for new puzzles.

Easier said then done though.
They have to be solvable, not so hard you need to grab a calculator.
They have to be straight forward and "grokkable" Cultural background and language should not matter.
They have to fit the quest somewhat. A mindflayer would like a word/math puzzle in it's lair, a demon would not.
They need to fit the quest pacing and rewards. Difficult time consuming puzzles should give big rewards, ie extra named item chests.

And most of all, they have to be BUGFREE. There is nothing worse then spending a lot of time on a puzzle for it to bug out or 2 seconds of lag making it impossible to complete.
Good points. I would suggest puzzles that are hard have optional routes so you can skip them. Solve the puzzle to avoid a longer path type of thing.
 

Drunken.dx

Well-known member
Good points. I would suggest puzzles that are hard have optional routes so you can skip them. Solve the puzzle to avoid a longer path type of thing.
I love how puzzle in final quest of borderlands has secret door opening if you take to long to solve it (pro tip: pay attention when doing it)
 

NomadDog

DDO Hawaiian Style!
"Mastermind", or "Wordle" puzzle: Row of 6 tiles with a lever. Tiles cycle between 6 runes. A random pattern is chosen. Player sets a pattern, pulls the lever. Correct runes in the correct space light up green. Runes that are in the pattern, but in the incorrect space, light up yellow. Iterate until the correct pattern is complete.

This one already exists in game. It's the final puzzle in the Reaver's Fate raid. Of course, it's classic Mastermind with only 4 spots.
 

glass_jaws

Well-known member
Honestly would be cool to have a "puzzle" that really doesn't have a solution per say. Just causes the rest of your dungeon experience to be different based on your combination. Say different enemies, traps, etc. Would need enough permutations that people could try. Obviously eventually people will find one they really like and try to stick to it. I doubt DDO has the tech to have say 100+ permutations, but would be neat if we could.
 

DYWYPI

Well-known member
If I had to attempt to recall the 'Simon Says' style 5 rune sequences, i.e. no written notes, on average it would take me well over 20-minutes of repeated attempts...

[...] "Simon" puzzle: this one's fairly good, its randomized and not too problematic (aside from occasional lag spikes) ...

I'd probably even have some issues assigning substitute letters and numbers; so instead I just have to draw three separate visual grids and position the numbers. I don't think the intention was this sometimes mandatory memory recall puzzle (that appears in several quests) should take well over 20 minutes to complete.

The concern, I come across with the: [nine] flashing rune "Simon" memory recall, and sound game...

I was officially diagnosed, with a fairly common cognitive disability when I was studying at University by an Educational Psychologist. Give me a 'Culture Fair' Intelligence Test and I'll likely score within the top few percentiles of the population. :-)

Albeit one of the noticeable effects of my disability is I have a poor or faulty short-term memory and have trouble with sequencing, e.g. I have trouble remembering things like order of the alphabet or strings of words or numbers, for example telephone numbers.

Therefore, unlike an unaffected individual that would have would have little or no perceived difficulty remembering and recalling: 5 or 6 digits; it causes me great stress or burden. Therefore, I'm prone to completely forget the sequence or make major errors. In other words; my digit span is significantly, drastically and adversely affected.

I have considerable issues with recalling both the four and five lighting up sequences, which only leads me to believe SSG haven't tested this specific puzzle with people that have cognitive disabilities. In which case, it is similar to unwitting discrimination, against those individuals. :-/

Also there is a minor problem (as mentioned above) with most of the DDO "Simon Says" Puzzles. (We'll ignore the larger challenge regarding people with faulty short-term memory attempting to recall the longer sequences for the moment). Sometimes if you get a lag spike, etc. The puzzle gets out of synchronisation audibly and visually and by the time your eye has spotted and tracked the absolute first Rune to light, the next is practically activating. So it mostly results in you having to reset the Puzzle.

Would the Content Designers consider creating something at least more interesting – hint – like a 'Sokoban' style puzzle.

Pi3IMNT.gif


Whereas in contrast a Sokoban type puzzle I'd find straight forward.

A man in the wilderness Asked this of me,
"How many strawberries Grow in the sea?"
I answered him As I thought good,
"As many red herrings As swim in the wood".


Sokoban, unfortunately probably wouldn't translate that well with DDO even though they do already have boulders with a "push animation" and pressure plates and holes the boulders could plug, etc.

Yes, they would probably have to offer a Dimension Door type item that could be used in the quest; for anyone stupid enough to get stuck behind a crate or boulder. Having a reset lever would also be near mandatory for anyone that pushed the said object into a corner (as pulling is disallowed). We should convince Flimsy to tackle such a project.
 

Wini

Well-known member
To me, puzzles are fun the first 10 times I play them. Then they become PITA if I'm burning a XP pot. And that lazer mirrors... oh, boy, you better don't missclick on them!
 
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Muggins

Member
A carnival themed Hall of Mirrors maze would be worth a look-see. I would pay good money to have evil clown mobs to mow down.
I'd also like a cornfield maze but much larger than the hedge mazes in Desire in the Dark or A Study in Sable.
 

droid327

Well-known member
Good points. I would suggest puzzles that are hard have optional routes so you can skip them. Solve the puzzle to avoid a longer path type of thing.

Yes, or just have them accessing optional rewards, like in the Sharn one with the giant blackout puzzle

Though I think, design-time-wise, though, that building new "regular" puzzles that people will actually engage with is more useful than designing bigger, more complex "optional" puzzles that most people will probably just skip if they cant memorize the solution.

"Mastermind", or "Wordle" puzzle: Row of 6 tiles with a lever. Tiles cycle between 6 runes. A random pattern is chosen. Player sets a pattern, pulls the lever. Correct runes in the correct space light up green. Runes that are in the pattern, but in the incorrect space, light up yellow. Iterate until the correct pattern is complete.

This one already exists in game. It's the final puzzle in the Reaver's Fate raid. Of course, it's classic Mastermind with only 4 spots.

Well then great, if the mechanic is already there then they should be sticking it in other places too!
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
Yes, or just have them accessing optional rewards, like in the Sharn one with the giant blackout puzzle

Though I think, design-time-wise, though, that building new "regular" puzzles that people will actually engage with is more useful than designing bigger, more complex "optional" puzzles that most people will probably just skip if they cant memorize the solution.
If they are strictly optional (like the sharn one you mention) make sure the reward is sufficient for the effort (both devs and players). A "junk" chest or 10% base XP won't cut it.

And yes, the puzzle has to be a significant enough shortcut. For me, the one in the Ghost of Chance hits that mark though it might not provide sufficient benefit if it was random took longer to puzzle out.
 

dur

aka Cybersquirt
While its nice to have non-combat puzzles as part of quest progression, the current styles have some issues...

Mirror puzzle, tile puzzle: always the same solution, so quickly learned.
Pentagram puzzle: Always start fully dark/light, so always the same solution. Even if you randomize it, too, there's only a few rules to learn to quickly solve them
Dice puzzle: Hell to the no. No one likes these. They're overly hard, and prone to issues with lag as well. Plus, always same solution
Blackout puzzle: easy trick to solve most configurations
Floating ball puzzle: only a few preset configs for each one, and a good challenge level, though easily memorized if there's only one config (eg Saltmarsh hilltop)
"Simon" puzzle: this one's fairly good, its randomized and not too problematic (aside from occasional lag spikes)
[]
Thanks for the tips? Puzzles are guud! What's the solution to Rainbow, again? :D

If nothing else I hope we never ever see a mirror puzzle again.

Man I so hate those! 🤬
I like the mirror "puzzles," I'm "old" enough, I know the actions.

All I need is for it to make some kind of sense.
 
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