kmoustakas
Scourge of Xaos
Vertigo doesn't apply to the improved trip feat, is that WAI?
Improved trip bug or wai?
- Thread starter kmoustakas
- Start date
J1NG
I can do things others can't...
Is it just Vertigo or is it other item bonus? Also, is this from the Combat Log, or from other observation points (Improved Trip Hotbar Icon)? Are you in Fury of the Wild?
J1NG
:: edit ::
I've just tried this on a new character; Level 7 pure Fighter, has Improved Trip, and without a Duskbone Ring, only has 17 for Improved Trip, but once equipped it provides +4 Vertigo as per description and the Icon DC and Combat Log notes the increase to DC21.
J1NG
:: edit ::
I've just tried this on a new character; Level 7 pure Fighter, has Improved Trip, and without a Duskbone Ring, only has 17 for Improved Trip, but once equipped it provides +4 Vertigo as per description and the Icon DC and Combat Log notes the increase to DC21.
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kmoustakas
Scourge of Xaos
I was looking at the tooltip. I just checked vertigo the augment and yes, it's the bonus feat from fury of the wild.
J1NG
I can do things others can't...
I just grabbed the one from Fury of the Wild and tried it with a Vertigo item and it is adding to it without issues. So it sounds like (theory) there might be an item or effect on you that is granting an identical bonus already and that's why you're not seeing the bonus.
J1NG
kmoustakas
Scourge of Xaos
I'm looking at my 'general combat bonuses' page. Unequip item with vertigo augment: trip bonuses 1. Improved trip tooltip says dc 42. Equip item with vertigo augment. Trip bonuses: 15. Improved trip tooltip remains 42!
If I rage, the DC increases.
Do you have combat expertise at all? Because I don't I just have the feat from the destiny only.
If I rage, the DC increases.
Do you have combat expertise at all? Because I don't I just have the feat from the destiny only.
Noticed something funny as well. Currently running a heavy tactics build (15 pal/5 DL). I took Improved Trip as a feat, with Combat Expertise. I have triple stack of Ancient Tacticts and one Trailblazer pastlife and have checked with them toggled on/off.
It seemed that some Trip/Vertigo specific items and augments were not increasing the DC of Improved Trip, whereas all the Combat Mastery items I've used were. This was being reflected (or rather, not reflected?) in the tooltip DC, but I didn't notice if it was on the character sheet breakdown.
It might be a specific item, or it might be the augment that I had just slotted. I'll check later tonight if I get a chance.
If I remember, I was updating my gear from my lv 15 stuff to lv 20/21 gear. I had swapped out Bracers of the Demon's Consort (+5 Combat Mastery), and needed to fit in Vertigo somewhere. Originally I had a +11 Vertigo augment in my bag, so slotted that in an item (I forget which), but my DC didn't increase at all. Cannith crafted a Combat Mastery shield, and everything (Dragon's Roar, Sunder, Stunning Blow, Stunning Shield, and Improved Trip) increased by +8 as expected. Draconic Might was working as expected.
I believe I had noticed a similar issue with the Vistani Fighter's Sash (+6 Vert) while leveling, but didn't bother to look into it since I knew I was getting +5 from the Bracers.
I tend to check my stats/DC's on my guildship, so I don't have issues with buffs or auras from other players.
It seemed that some Trip/Vertigo specific items and augments were not increasing the DC of Improved Trip, whereas all the Combat Mastery items I've used were. This was being reflected (or rather, not reflected?) in the tooltip DC, but I didn't notice if it was on the character sheet breakdown.
It might be a specific item, or it might be the augment that I had just slotted. I'll check later tonight if I get a chance.
If I remember, I was updating my gear from my lv 15 stuff to lv 20/21 gear. I had swapped out Bracers of the Demon's Consort (+5 Combat Mastery), and needed to fit in Vertigo somewhere. Originally I had a +11 Vertigo augment in my bag, so slotted that in an item (I forget which), but my DC didn't increase at all. Cannith crafted a Combat Mastery shield, and everything (Dragon's Roar, Sunder, Stunning Blow, Stunning Shield, and Improved Trip) increased by +8 as expected. Draconic Might was working as expected.
I believe I had noticed a similar issue with the Vistani Fighter's Sash (+6 Vert) while leveling, but didn't bother to look into it since I knew I was getting +5 from the Bracers.
I tend to check my stats/DC's on my guildship, so I don't have issues with buffs or auras from other players.
J1NG
I can do things others can't...
Looked at it again. There's no issue with Improved Trip not increasing it's DC. It does adjust when bonus applies to it.
However, there IS an issue with it and the bonus from the Sapphire Augment of Vertigo. Item Vertigo effects correctly add to both Trip and Improved Trip. However, the Vertigo Augment only adds to the basic Trip attack, not the Improved Trip attack.
This was tested and confirmed on a DC 30 for Improved Trip and DC 46 for Trip character, using Improved Trip on another player. The other player made the save with a roll of 33 (roll of 15 + 18 Dex Bonus), which means that it is not a display error only.
If anyone reports this, make sure you clearly mention that it is Improved Trip and the Sapphire Augment that's got the issue (confirmed). I haven't gone around testing the other effects at the moment.
J1NG
kmoustakas
Scourge of Xaos
Damn that's complicated! I hope BLONDE gets on this!
This makes sense and matches with what I was seeing. I figured it was just a coding issue for whatever effect I had at the time adding to trip.
J1NG
I can do things others can't...
I have a sneaky suspicion that when @Tonquin removed the erroneous extra bonus to Improved Trip from the Dino Augment for Trip, something might have got clipped in relation to it here as well. I notice that the Augment and Dino Augment effects does not specify and adjustments to Improved Trip, only to Trip (edit: Unlike before when it specifically mentions Trip and Improved Trip :/edit). But an item with the Vertigo effect (such as the Duskbone, giving +4) lists in its effects the adjustment to Improved Trip specifically.
J1NG
J1NG
Tonquin
of Lightning Hammer fame!
It is not!
So a while back, I stumbled upon a bit of a revalation regarding Sunder DC calculation.
As it turns out, Trip and Improved Trip do NOT share a DC calculation formula like Sunder and Improved Sunder do. Improved Trip is indeed using a mysterious Improved Trip DC. Why do we have a separate "improved trip DC" that governs Improved Trip instead of both abilities using regular ol' Trip? The truth is, I have no idea. What I can do is flip Improved Trip over to scale with regular Trip DCs, cleaning up this bug and simplifying our end internally. Thank you!
FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted
Well-known member
does this mean improved trip will actually land as bonuses to trip DCs will now work?
Striga
Well-known member
I give it a resolute maybeish.
healertank
Well-known member
So my trip says Save vs reflex when I hover over it." Save: 65 (reflex)" I'm currently at lvl 20 dragonlord.
If I take off an item with vertigo +7 augment it goes down to 58 as expected. I should note thats regular trip not improved as someone said vertigo augment isn't working on improved?
Also, when I took 2 of the tactical training feats in earlier levels I double checked that trip and sunder both had the higher DC's applied after taking them and they both went up the expected amount when taking such feats and using tactical feat/enhancement increases. So vertigo seems to work at least for me with different vertigo bonuses I checked giving the highest worn bonus only when wearing 2 different vertigo items.
So my question is how exactly does the trip component really work? it a Reflex save for the opponent or not? People are claiming it is just a dc 20 + higher of (str or Dex) against your trip dc of St+10+trip bonuses/feats etc. Where are you even getting that info? Wiki? Is that only against another player versus a mob? PVP does really weird stuff because face it... the game just isn't balanced or made for PVP.
Why then does it say reflex save...? just like any attack that are a save vs. will/ fort/ ref save? I'm thinking people are confused by incorrect/old info on ddo wiki? And if it is a reflex save as I suspect, then I assume if an opponent/mob has improved evasion does it do anything other than just take half damage on failed save? Because it is a regular damage only attack... that can also trip.
If I take off an item with vertigo +7 augment it goes down to 58 as expected. I should note thats regular trip not improved as someone said vertigo augment isn't working on improved?
Also, when I took 2 of the tactical training feats in earlier levels I double checked that trip and sunder both had the higher DC's applied after taking them and they both went up the expected amount when taking such feats and using tactical feat/enhancement increases. So vertigo seems to work at least for me with different vertigo bonuses I checked giving the highest worn bonus only when wearing 2 different vertigo items.
So my question is how exactly does the trip component really work? it a Reflex save for the opponent or not? People are claiming it is just a dc 20 + higher of (str or Dex) against your trip dc of St+10+trip bonuses/feats etc. Where are you even getting that info? Wiki? Is that only against another player versus a mob? PVP does really weird stuff because face it... the game just isn't balanced or made for PVP.
Why then does it say reflex save...? just like any attack that are a save vs. will/ fort/ ref save? I'm thinking people are confused by incorrect/old info on ddo wiki? And if it is a reflex save as I suspect, then I assume if an opponent/mob has improved evasion does it do anything other than just take half damage on failed save? Because it is a regular damage only attack... that can also trip.