In Quest Teleport

[CBDunk]

It would be VERY helpful to have a way to teleport from point to point WITHIN a quest. Basically the way Dimension Door works now, but between any two points.

One way of implementing this would be to add a 'Door' option to the existing list of Teleport (and Greater Teleport) locations. When selected, this option would create a door. A single door would take you back to the entrance exactly like the existing Dimension Door spell. If a second door were then created within the same quest, anyone entering one of these doors would exit from the other. If a third and/or subsequent door were created then the earliest existing door would be removed... such that there were always a maximum of two doors.

This wouldn't allow players to get anywhere they haven't already been. It wouldn't allow them to return from 'points of no return' unless Dimension Door already does so. The most significant impact it should have is eliminating time spent running through areas that have already been cleared. Occasionally, it would allow some players to bypass a jumping challenge or other obstacle once ONE of them has completed it... but most of those already have a lever or other mechanism at the end to let the rest of the party skip them.

It would allow some raid lockouts to be bypassed, but if that's an issue the 'Door' effect could be blocked in raids.

 

[droid327]

The problem here is they'd have to go back through every existing quest to make sure that wouldn't create situations where you could break quest progress by teleporting where you were not able to teleport before. Many quests are scripted assuming you take a certain path, because it forces you to.

For example, you can completely break Mad Tea Party by bringing Mikayl to DD you back to the door after you kill Izek. This would create likely dozens of those problems.

But most importantly, it'd allow multiboxers to just load up with alts at the start, and then drop a door to teleport them straight to the end chest, and that obviously is very undesirable metagaming to incentivize.

 

[Ahpuch]

It would be VERY helpful to have a way to teleport from point to point WITHIN a quest. Basically the way Dimension Door works now, but between any two points.
...

I am with Droid on this one. It's a good idea but since the game was not built with this concept I fear that the risk many quests being breakable is too high. For the example that Droid provides it would be advisable if the teleport would only allow one to go back (i.e. can't go entrance to end chest but can go end chest to entrance) but again that seems like a lot of work to jam in after the fact.

At the risk of digressing, I would like to see Teleport altered to remove the precanned destinations and instead allow the caster to save any public location as a destination. Number of destinations can be a factor of caster level. Scrolls can maintain the precanned list.

 

[CBDunk]

For example, you can completely break Mad Tea Party by bringing Mikayl to DD you back to the door after you kill Izek. This would create likely dozens of those problems.

As you (and I) noted, this already exists because of Dimension Door. You say that this would likely create dozens of additional issues of this kind... but I can't think of even one that isn't already there due to DD. Can you? In any case, the solution to both is the same... if DD/teleport within a quest breaks scripting then drop a dimensional anchor effect to prevent it.

But most importantly, it'd allow multiboxers to just load up with alts at the start, and then drop a door to teleport them straight to the end chest, and that obviously is very undesirable metagaming to incentivize.

So, because multi-boxers, like everyone else, would save time not having to run characters through cleared out areas we should not do it? By that logic we shouldn't have end chests / loot / XP / rewards at all... 'incentivizes very undesirable metagaming by multiboxers'. Seems like self-destructive, 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' thinking to me.

Personally, I don't care what multiboxers do... at all. I play the game for me to have fun. There are some quests that get a bit tedious because of long periods of backtracking. Teleport could fix that and make the game more fun. It would encourage more completion of optional objectives by allowing groups to get back to the main path faster. Team coordination. Just the time needed to get everyone together to START a wilderness quest. Across the board it would be helpful.

Yes, that means it would also be helpful to multiboxers. So? Some people choose to have fun differently than I do. Others consider those people to be having 'wrong fun'. So long as it doesn't impact me, or the vast majority of other players, what does it matter? You don't see multi-boxers dominating the meta with all the most powerful characters. Heck, I barely see them at all. I play for several hours every day, join random groups often, and see a multi-boxer maybe once a week. The devs aren't having to adjust difficulty or change... anything to adapt to multi-boxers shifting game balance.

 

[CBDunk]

At the risk of digressing, I would like to see Teleport altered to remove the precanned destinations and instead allow the caster to save any public location as a destination. Number of destinations can be a factor of caster level. Scrolls can maintain the precanned list.

I have all the 'Expanded Teleport' locations, and thus can already get from pretty much anywhere to any given public area in under a minute, but I could see this being very useful to others.

Might be an issue for SSG though, as they make money off that sort of convenience only being available in 'ultimate' type bundles. They've also apparently received directives from the intellectual property owners requiring more effort to reach 'other realms' like Faerun and Baroiva.

That said, even updating the list(s) slightly (i.e. Greater Teleport could also use a revamp) could be a big help. Just adding 'Guild Airship'... huge reduction in travel times across the board for many players.

 

[droid327]

As you (and I) noted, this already exists because of Dimension Door. You say that this would likely create dozens of additional issues of this kind... but I can't think of even one that isn't already there due to DD. Can you? In any case, the solution to both is the same... if DD/teleport within a quest breaks scripting then drop a dimensional anchor effect to prevent it.

Mad Tea Party has a Dimensional Anchor effect. Mikayl's DD ignores Anchors, which is why it breaks the quest - the scripts assume you run back through the tunnel, so they break if you dont run it the way it was intended. I only cited that as an example of the kind of problem that would be created if you let people have point-to-point teleports in hundreds of quests that werent designed to properly support it

Believe me, I'd love to be able to save time by, e.g., dropping a DD at the fork in the road for Haywire Foundry, and then just instaskip back there after clearing each wing. I just also understand how that could be really problematic for the game to handle, both in terms of scripting like that, and also being able to skip significant chunks of the combat/risk in many quests in ways that would make DD potentially OP for its opportunity cost.

You cant say "well just put in measures to prevent quest scripts from being broken" when your whole request is FOR a mechanic that allows quest scripts to be broken in the first place

 

[CBDunk]

Mad Tea Party has a Dimensional Anchor effect. Mikayl's DD ignores Anchors

Ah... so, player cast DD, or the proposed change to Teleport, would NOT break that quest. The only issue is with a hireling that can ignore dimensional anchor. So our list of actual example 'problems' with in quest Teleport now sits at... zero.

Believe me, I'd love to be able to save time by, e.g., dropping a DD at the fork in the road for Haywire Foundry, and then just instaskip back there after clearing each wing. I just also understand how that could be really problematic for the game to handle, both in terms of scripting like that, and also being able to skip significant chunks of the combat/risk in many quests in ways that would make DD potentially OP for its opportunity cost.

Again... for example?

In Haywire, when you are coming back from the western side NEW traps have been added to the top and bottom of the ramps that weren't there when you came through in the other direction. Otherwise, the path back is empty and unchanged. Is allowing players who have teleport to skip those two surprise new traps and the long run really a bad thing? Note, if you do the eastern side first then after completing both you can use the pass thru to run back thru the empty eastern halls and... skip those two traps. So, end of the day, teleport would just be removing time running through empty halls.

You cant say "well just put in measures to prevent quest scripts from being broken" when your whole request is FOR a mechanic that allows quest scripts to be broken in the first place

I can when the VAST majority of quests don't HAVE any scripts limiting when you can return to a particular area. We are talking about a very small number of quests that are potentially impacted in any significant way... BECAUSE Dimension Door would already pose the same 'problem' for most (or all?) of them.

I ALSO can when the required 'measures' is a simple, already common, dimensional anchor effect that is already in the only example quest known to have this issue. Say we miss something and it somehow broke two whole quests... drop dimensional anchor on those at the appropriate time/place, problem solved.

Basically, I am saying that by keeping the effect to a slightly altered 'Dimension Door' they'd be limiting the potential problems mostly to just those which have already been considered and addressed BECAUSE of Dimension Door. Also note... they've already expanded scripted dimension doors to do exactly this. Several quests now have dimension doors that pop up to take you places OTHER than the entrance.

At that, I've been saying Teleport and Greater Teleport... but they could also just change Dimension Door itself to work this way.

 

[l_remmie]

All teleport destinations are set. They are tested and save.
A new teleport beacon mechanic can be literally placed anywhere in a quest and a subsequent door would have to spawn there but there is no coding to know if it spawns safely there. Half of them would be out of bounds or under the floor etc. It would literally break any quest right there.

 

[CBDunk]

All teleport destinations are set. They are tested and save.
A new teleport beacon mechanic can be literally placed anywhere in a quest and a subsequent door would have to spawn there but there is no coding to know if it spawns safely there. Half of them would be out of bounds or under the floor etc. It would literally break any quest right there.

Or... when the spell is cast the door would automatically be placed in the nearest spot that would NOT cause any such problems.

Put another way... how often do you run into issues with a gold seal hireling being summoned and then unable to move because they appeared in the floor / scenery? That's a teleport. That can be done anywhere in the quest. Seems to work just fine.

 

[seph1roth5]

The problem here is they'd have to go back through every existing quest to make sure that wouldn't create situations where you could break quest progress by teleporting where you were not able to teleport before. Many quests are scripted assuming you take a certain path, because it forces you to.

For example, you can completely break Mad Tea Party by bringing Mikayl to DD you back to the door after you kill Izek. This would create likely dozens of those problems.

But most importantly, it'd allow multiboxers to just load up with alts at the start, and then drop a door to teleport them straight to the end chest, and that obviously is very undesirable metagaming to incentivize.

I'd love a 2-way DD that let you grab people from the entrance. Yeah it'd make it easier for multiboxing, but you know what, they were going to do it anyway lol. A 2-way DD, even if it only stuck around for 10 sec would help a ton when people get lost or join very late. Rather than having to wait all day for a gather in sharn welcome or kind of a big deal.

 

[droid327]

So our list of actual example 'problems' with in quest Teleport now sits at... zero.

No...the list of quests that break script and become unfinishable when you find a way to run them other than how they were designed are at least 1

You think I'm arguing a gameplay balance issue. I'm not. Well I am, but that's moot because I'm arguing that it would potentially break the game too many places.

 

[Ahpuch]

I think one thing that would have to happen with this idea is that mobs follow you through the door. Opening one door at a shrine and another at a tough fight would certainly offer too easy an escape hatch.

1. Fight a bit,
2. pop back to safe area,
3. pop back to fight,
4. pop back and use shrine,
5. pop back to fight,

But that definitely seems like it would break quests. Maybe there would have to be significant restrictions on when one could use the door. Such that one couldn't use the door under any alert or if they have agro. Or perhaps it has an activation like a lever rather than a quick click like a DDoor. But that all seems to sit somewhere between exploitable and quest breaking.

Perhaps not a door then but a marker that the caster can drop anywhere in the quest. The caster can teleport back to it. One way. One time. Only caster. Greater Teleport would let them take any one in a 30 foot radius with them.

 

[CBDunk]

I think one thing that would have to happen with this idea is that mobs follow you through the door. Opening one door at a shrine and another at a tough fight would certainly offer too easy an escape hatch.

In theory... but note that Rest Shrines can only be used once on Hard and higher difficulties... and only every 15 minutes on Normal or 5 minutes on Casual. Thus, you can't really just keep jumping back to a shrine repeatedly to recover like that. It might help with raising dead characters... but, since ghosts can't go through the doors, that would only work if someone grabbed their soul stone and then went to the shrine.

It also seems like this would be possible with existing Dimension Door... with a lot of running from the entrance to the shrine and fight.

All that said, yeah I'd be fine with mobs following through the doors. Not sure if that would take significant extra coding though. Alternatively, mobs could be able to attack and destroy the doors.

 

[The Narc]

No thanks, multiboxing should be as taxing as possible and as unfun as possible, any suggestion that would help them would be given a “no” vote by me

 

[CBDunk]

No thanks, multiboxing should be as taxing as possible and as unfun as possible, any suggestion that would help them would be given a “no” vote by me

Please tell me that's intended as a sarcastic indictment of the human race's tendency towards self-destruction.

 

[Lazuli]

In the old single player nevewinter (I haven't played any later version) DD allowed you to mark a point in the dungeon (this didn't spend the spell, the game had the normal Vancian system) and then later DD towards that point (spending the spell ). When I started playing DDO I expected dimension door to work like this, and I was disappointed that in fact the spell was more limited than a spell from a really old video game.

Of course it could be improved to make it work like this, adding a point established by the player (and which the player can change as he advances through the dungeon). Devs would need to revise some quests to prevent exploits, but I suspect not as many as people think, and devs have wasted time on massive restructures that no one has asked of them and that have had to involve a lot more work.

The proper spell to be modified is DD, not teleport tho. The original lore of each spell in pnp is: teleport is for covering large distances in the world, DD shorter distances like those that can be found within a dungeon.

It's also time that they let us ride the quests, now that we have a system that differentiates between being in combat or not. Simply, let them dismount us from the horse when there are enemies nearby.

And I don't know how many times I have to say that a lot of people do DD on Haywire. You just have to open the interior door with a hire or class pet. I do it every time I play that quest.

And neither teleport nor DD have ever been two-way, so no thanks. In any case that would be a suitable effect for a new higher level spell.

 

[Lazuli]

Please tell me that's intended as a sarcastic indictment of the human race's tendency towards self-destruction.

It is the classic response of envy and hatred of those who do not accept that others do not play exactly the same way as they do.

If something doesn't influence you, ignore it. I personally find that mutiboxing is too much work for what it gives, but if others find it fun, go for it. Keep in mind, the narc, that these people have to spend a lot of money buying xpacks for their secondary accounts. Other people spend it on xp pots, ottos and discovery elixirs. Whales have advantages. And mutiboxing is not even the most comfortable way to achieve these advantages.

 

[popejubal]

The problem here is they'd have to go back through every existing quest to make sure that wouldn't create situations where you could break quest progress by teleporting where you were not able to teleport before. Many quests are scripted assuming you take a certain path, because it forces you to.

For example, you can completely break Mad Tea Party by bringing Mikayl to DD you back to the door after you kill Izek. This would create likely dozens of those problems.

But most importantly, it'd allow multiboxers to just load up with alts at the start, and then drop a door to teleport them straight to the end chest, and that obviously is very undesirable metagaming to incentivize.

Soul stones only take one backpack space each. Multiboxing for end chest loot is already pretty easy and I don’t think that this suggestion would cause “undesirable metagaming” any more than we have already. And that’s leaving aside the fact that I don’t think multiboxing is undesirable.

 

[droid327]

Soul stones only take one backpack space each. Multiboxing for end chest loot is already pretty easy and I don’t think that this suggestion would cause “undesirable metagaming” any more than we have already. And that’s leaving aside the fact that I don’t think multiboxing is undesirable.

Getting your alts to die and then collecting the stones has always been a nuisance barrier to this kind of gameplay. There's making it possible, and then making it convenient.

 

[Lazuli]

Getting your alts to die and then collecting the stones has always been a nuisance barrier to this kind of gameplay. There's making it possible, and then making it convenient.

Actually in quest it is very easy to make them die. In the wilderness it is more complicated.