Is Reaper Mode going to kill the Game?

[comfy]

So what your saying is we should be asking for casual to offer the same XP as reaper currently?

Actually, now that you say it.... I don't think I would have a problem with this. I don't really care if people level up the same doing Casual or Elite than I do with R1. The worst case scenario is that people 1. Don't get as much favor, 2. Have less chance of named loot, 3. Get bored and bump the difficulty up or 4. Actually join new players for content at a level appropriate for them. Perhaps on Hardcore, the perceived value of the level 20 cloak will be diminished, but that is already hardly difficult.

I am all for it!

 

[Shear-buckler]

Actually, now that you say it.... I don't think I would have a problem with this. I don't really care if people level up the same doing Casual or Elite than I do with R1. The worst case scenario is that people 1. Don't get as much favor, 2. Have less chance of named loot, 3. Get bored and bump the difficulty up or 4. Actually join new players for content at a level appropriate for them. Perhaps on Hardcore, the perceived value of the level 20 cloak will be diminished, but that is already hardly difficult.

I am all for it!

Here is what would happen. Players would run casual until they got tierd of the game from the non-engaging and braindead gameplay and quit.

 

[comfy]

Here is what would happen. Players would run casual until they got tierd of the game from the non-engaging and braindead gameplay and quit.

Do you think people who find Casual to be boring would quit rather than bumping the difficulty up and receiving other rewards (loot drop %, favor, rxp) on top of more engaging gameplay?

 

[Ahpuch]

Do you think people who find Casual to be boring would quit rather than bumping the difficulty up and receiving other rewards (loot drop %, favor, rxp) on top of more engaging gameplay?

Most definitely. That is why Reaper had to have higher rewards. Because those who were unhappy with the Elite difficulty and wanted a bigger challenge made it clear that making a harder challenge also had to be rewarded because they were not going to run it simply for the challenge.

Note: I can't tell if I am being sarcastic anymore...

 

[Shear-buckler]

Do you think people who find Casual to be boring would quit rather than bumping the difficulty up and receiving other rewards (loot drop %, favor, rxp) on top of more engaging gameplay?

Yes, absolutely. People stand in front of a portal for hours in kings forest for easy experience.

Incentivicing boring gameplay is the worst mistake you can do as a game designer.

 

[DBZ]

Slayers equals no reaper frags equals waste of time

 

[Mand O'Lin]

Slayers equals no reaper frags equals waste of time

When you are just trying to get to cap so you can TR again, slayers can be a very fast way to do it.

 

[DBZ]

So can r1 zergs and earn you frags

 

[Aragadi]

I have not read through this whole thread, and I'm likely very glad I didn't. I will just say I agree with the OP, reaper is terrible and should be abandoned as a game mechanic. Only commenting because I saw these 2 messages on the first page of the thread and felt a need to express my opinion concerning them.

6 1/2 years later you are asking if Reaper is killing DDO. If it wasn't for Reaper mode many of us would have left long ago. Many of us who have lots of reaper points wouldn't care if it awarded favor at all. Running Elite is a joke especially in heroics.

Maybe some people are still here because of Reaper, maybe. At the very least you I suppose. The status of my guild however tells a different story. At one point we had over 50 active members logging on every single day. Not the biggest guild I know, but still, that's 50 people. Today there are
2...
two...
TWO...
active players left in our guild. There are currently 5 accounts that have been logged in in the last 6 months. Mine, my second account, our guild account, One of my friends who still plays, and the guild leader who logs in once a week to keep leadership status of the guild. Our numbers didn't start significantly dropping until reaper was introduced to the game. You have your anecdotal evidence, others have their own.

It's not reaper that's killing things for you. New players will get blown up in elites and vets can zip thru them like they're nothing. Vets can have fully min/max gear from every level bracket laying around combined with perfect builds and detailed knowledge of quests & game mechanics; that creates a giant gap. I help newbies all the time figure out builds, help them if they get lost in quests, with gear choices, etc. But DDO throws people into the deep end of the pool of a very complex game, some people will find it entirely overwhelming and that's a lack of decent on-ramping on the game's part.

There's entire player groups out there that never run reapers. There's guilds that are aimed at helping new players out. The resources for newbies aren't always easy to find but they exist.

During hardcore seasons I get my son to play the game with me, it's the only time I can get him to play it but he will help me get whatever I am after during a season. He has absolutely no problems performing well on hardcore on elite difficulty. There is no buildup of power over decades there and he had maybe a total of a month of game time in DDO. The very few times I have gotten him to play on the main servers with me, reaper was an absolute turn-off for him. He literally said to me at one point "Why in the world would anyone want to do this". So yes, Reaper is very much killing things for people who would otherwise possibly have a smooth and rewarding experience with the game.

 

[festasha]

Not trying to upset the original poster, but it's inevitable that there will be power imbalances, whether it's in terms of reaper points, past lives, in-game knowledge and build knowledge. Reaper has made it fun for many especially as people have become more powerful with their past lives and the game became less challenging for them, that was why many people asked for an increase in difficulty in the first place. It is crucial for the game's longevity and for newer players' enjoyment to find a solution that works for everyone and leaves everyone feeling satisfied as the game will eventually come to an end with no new blood joining or those joining just quitting after a short period. Finding the solution is where the problem starts so if people are struggling then the forums are probably the best place to ask for first-lifer or low-skull reaper groups and members can point the new player to that area if they are feeling disgruntled about the difficulty of the game and can feel valued within the groups they are playing in. Maybe there needs to be some new pinned threads where people can search for groups on the server they are playing or even a thread where those not wanting to participate in reaper can advertise. Maybe this thread shouldn't have been doom and gloom about reaper killing the game but what can we do to make the game challenging and fun for everyone? This is just my two cents worth so maybe others will have other ideas that can improve the situation for those left behind in the power imbalance.

​

 

[Silverfox]

I have not read through this whole thread, and I'm likely very glad I didn't. I will just say I agree with the OP, reaper is terrible and should be abandoned as a game mechanic. Only commenting because I saw these 2 messages on the first page of the thread and felt a need to express my opinion concerning them.


Maybe some people are still here because of Reaper, maybe. At the very least you I suppose. The status of my guild however tells a different story. At one point we had over 50 active members logging on every single day. Not the biggest guild I know, but still, that's 50 people. Today there are
2...
two...
TWO...
active players left in our guild. There are currently 5 accounts that have been logged in in the last 6 months. Mine, my second account, our guild account, One of my friends who still plays, and the guild leader who logs in once a week to keep leadership status of the guild. Our numbers didn't start significantly dropping until reaper was introduced to the game. You have your anecdotal evidence, others have their own.

While your experience has been significantly different than mine and many of the players I play with I fully understand your position. I hadn't spent money or played the game in years before reaper came out. Initially I had no use for reaper but once I began playing reaper there was no going back. I paid to transfer my characters over 10 all of which have many past lives to a new server just so I could find a guild that runs higher reaper raids.

When 2% of players generate a majority of a game’s revenue, which is why game developers and marketers are eager to catch these whales. Things are likely to remain the same.

Ying posted this

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/is-reaper-mode-going-to-kill-the-game.1952/page-6#post-21569

Whales are 2% of players but account for nearly 50% of revenue.

 

[rabidfox]

During hardcore seasons I get my son to play the game with me, it's the only time I can get him to play it but he will help me get whatever I am after during a season. He has absolutely no problems performing well on hardcore on elite difficulty. There is no buildup of power over decades there and he had maybe a total of a month of game time in DDO. The very few times I have gotten him to play on the main servers with me, reaper was an absolute turn-off for him. He literally said to me at one point "Why in the world would anyone want to do this". So yes, Reaper is very much killing things for people who would otherwise possibly have a smooth and rewarding experience with the game.

I assume you're helping (or have helped in the past) your son with build choices, gearing, explaining game mechanics, etc. which helped them learn basics of the game. On-ramping for new players is hard which I why I said elites will blow up new players. I deal with a good number of new people and there's lot of little tricks and knowledge to DDO that makes it easy to have issues with hard/elite when starting out. Even basic concepts like gear stacking in DDO will confuse many, where the idea of all the different types for stacking ism't what they expected (vs just wearing STR gear in every slot in other games). Or where to get resist pots, swap to tower shields to soak traps, etc. So many things to learn.

 

[Oliphant]

In my personal experience, I have had many people either new, or returning, or just with more casual history fade away from the game because the experience of trying to play reaper is miserable for them. They see the power creep, they get a reasonable estimate of how far behind they are, how long the grind would be to catch up, there's just no point. It's also true that it's a great system for vets to keep enjoying the game in almost evergreen fashion.

We're currently playing a 0 + X game, but it should be a 100 + X game. People should be starting out this game feeling fast, strong, powerful then work to get even better. We start people in the 9th depths of hell, slow as tar, weak as a twig, and no possible hope to catch up. Even if they commit to buying like $2000 worth of Otto Boxes, they'd still need half a year to grind out the last bits of levels needed to get to 20 and 30 respectively. Provide a catch up mechanic. Even better, just give everyone a flat constant package of power so we all at least have some foundation to at least run R1s. For example, throw everyone 10 free past life feats they can just pick. Just give it to everyone. Yesterday you have 0 + X and today you have 10 + X. Something, anything!

 

[Oliphant]

The issues for new, returning, casual players aside, I love reaper as a vet. I feel like the game experience where a monster can one shot you and you just need to avoid that one shot is exactly how a monster would occur to me in real life.

 

[rabidfox]

Even if they commit to buying like $2000 worth of Otto Boxes, they'd still need half a year to grind out the last bits of levels needed to get to 20 and 30 respectively.

What level of content requires this? With a decent set of gear and build then all the content outside push raiding is wide-open to a player. I really don't understand why people think they need all the past lives to function; I just don't get it.

 

[Oliphant]

Perhaps I shot for the moon there with the $2000 worth of Otto Boxes example but what about my more modest proposal of some kind of catch up like give everyone some past lives, like 10 or so, so the floor is not so low?

 

[Mand O'Lin]

While your experience has been significantly different than mine and many of the players I play with I fully understand your position. I hadn't spent money or played the game in years before reaper came out. Initially I had no use for reaper but once I began playing reaper there was no going back. I paid to transfer my characters over 10 all of which have many past lives to a new server just so I could find a guild that runs higher reaper raids.

When 2% of players generate a majority of a game’s revenue, which is why game developers and marketers are eager to catch these whales. Things are likely to remain the same.

Ying posted this

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/is-reaper-mode-going-to-kill-the-game.1952/page-6#post-21569

Whales are 2% of players but account for nearly 50% of revenue.

Keep in mind, the article regarding Whales is specifically referring to mobile gaming (Candy Crush, et al.). While it may translate to computer MMOs, it also may not.

 

[PraetorPlato]

We're currently playing a 0 + X game, but it should be a 100 + X game. People should be starting out this game feeling fast, strong, powerful then work to get even better. We start people in the 9th depths of hell, slow as tar, weak as a twig, and no possible hope to catch up. Even if they commit to buying like $2000 worth of Otto Boxes, they'd still need half a year to grind out the last bits of levels needed to get to 20 and 30 respectively. Provide a catch up mechanic. Even better, just give everyone a flat constant package of power so we all at least have some foundation to at least run R1s. For example, throw everyone 10 free past life feats they can just pick. Just give it to everyone. Yesterday you have 0 + X and today you have 10 + X. Something, anything!

I feel like all the people who solo elite on HC each season demonstrate this is far more about game knowledge than actually being weak. If you can comfortably and fairly consistently get to cap with literally no risk of death, that's probably *too easy* for live: i.e. reaper is needed for solo experienced players to feel challenged even on a first life toon, solo, with no gear. If anything, characters are too strong, not too weak, with no past life support.

 

[Mand O'Lin]

I feel like all the people who solo elite on HC each season demonstrate this is far more about game knowledge than actually being weak. If you can comfortably and fairly consistently get to cap with literally no risk of death, that's probably *too easy* for live: i.e. reaper is needed for solo experienced players to feel challenged even on a first life toon, solo, with no gear. If anything, characters are too strong, not too weak, with no past life support.

Or all the people who solo reaper on HC each season.

 

[Aragadi]

I assume you're helping (or have helped in the past) your son with build choices, gearing, explaining game mechanics, etc. which helped them learn basics of the game. On-ramping for new players is hard which I why I said elites will blow up new players. I deal with a good number of new people and there's lot of little tricks and knowledge to DDO that makes it easy to have issues with hard/elite when starting out. Even basic concepts like gear stacking in DDO will confuse many, where the idea of all the different types for stacking ism't what they expected (vs just wearing STR gear in every slot in other games). Or where to get resist pots, swap to tower shields to soak traps, etc. So many things to learn.

To be fair, my son played tabletop while in high school, and spend most of his gaming time playing more competitive games (various mobas/fps games) So he is not "new" to D&D or gaming at competitive levels. My point was not so much that he is new but could do well, as much as it was that he is not super experienced with the game, never had years of built-up game knowledge/power but could still perform well enough to help me with 5k favor rewards on hardcore, and yet could not stand Reaper.