Is there a good assassin rogue guide around?

Kodewraith

Active member
I've never actually played a dagger rogue before and I'm wondering if there's a guide play style guide?

I'm playing a hybrid between Tronk's build below and Ying's old build. I have lots of daggers, but I'm trying to figure out a good play style. So far it plays kinda like a slower monk but with more annoying stealth mechanics and a lot fewer attacks to click on. Also the self healing is way worse but since I'm only 17, I don't get hit that much in R1.
 

seph1roth5

Well-known member
assassin is pretty straightforward, I tend to go 2-weapon fighting so I can assassinate 2 things easily. Right now I'm trying a quarterstaff 2-handed assassin. It's a bit weird, but I'm hoping at higher level/more strikethrough I can get a bunch at once.

You can go dex to hit/dam by using kukris or daggers, and they get tons of bonuses for using either. I tend to go harper tree and go int to hit/dam and get the trance (though it doesn't work on assassinate). Plus, if you don't have a ton of past lives/gear/whatever, an int rogue makes a much better trapper.

Int rogue gets a bajillion skill pts too lol, but make sure to grab the trappy ones disable/search/spot/(to a lesser extent) open lock, umd, maybe hide/move silently. After that it's flavor. Tumble for backflips, bit of jump, etc.
 

VinoeWhines

Well-known member
Hi and welcome to the world of Rogue, much misunderstood and hated, but can still have a semblance of challenge and a tad fun.
What difficulty are you planning on playing?
At the highest difficulty setting you will want to invest in ranging, either with daggers and use Vistani to increase throwing dagger damage or Repeaters can use Inquisitor as well.
If you want to focus on daggers and speed try to maximize your dodge so you can stay longer in the fight and avoid getting hit.
If your playing Epic Elite, then using Magical Traps is a very solid form of CC(Crowd Control), works in lower Reapers and need to heavily invest in upper Reapers.
If you are soling then the above applies, if you run with a group, then Tronks and Ying's should suffice.
Make your goal to be self reliant, so that when every thing goes south you have a chance to survive and save the party.
 

VinoeWhines

Well-known member
assassin is pretty straightforward, I tend to go 2-weapon fighting so I can assassinate 2 things easily. Right now I'm trying a quarterstaff 2-handed assassin. It's a bit weird, but I'm hoping at higher level/more strikethrough I can get a bunch at once.

You can go dex to hit/dam by using kukris or daggers, and they get tons of bonuses for using either. I tend to go harper tree and go int to hit/dam and get the trance (though it doesn't work on assassinate). Plus, if you don't have a ton of past lives/gear/whatever, an int rogue makes a much better trapper.

Int rogue gets a bajillion skill pts too lol, but make sure to grab the trappy ones disable/search/spot/(to a lesser extent) open lock, umd, maybe hide/move silently. After that it's flavor. Tumble for backflips, bit of jump, etc.
Unfortunately Assassinate does not use the same mechanic as Two Weapon Fighting Strikethrough, I've tested it out with about 250% Strikethrough and it still only took out two mobs, I even tried it with upgraded Dark Imbuement from Shadow Dancer Tree but still hard coded at two mobs but that at least does effect assassinate to reach further out to strike mobs, which can come in handy but can cause the wrong mob your targeting to get assassinated(causing aggro from stealth) though if your further away you can assassinate from a safer distance. It just sucks that you have to choose Meld dodge% or Dark Imbuement attack distance, when you could before they made the changes have both abilities at the same time.

You use to be able to assassinate 3 mobs and a very rare 4 mobs before they took away(nerfed) the double strike abilities to hit a target twice even with your offhand, which was a great ability for assassins to get an extra assassinate in. The removal didn't affect the lag at the time like it was proclaimed to have done.

DEX based Rogues are more defensive and most likely a higher damage avoidance build.
INT based Rogues allows you to be more utilitarian and use more abilities/tricks/Crowd Control to avoid damage.
 

Ddealti

Member
I am new to the game, but have only been playing rogue assassins, and what I discovered is the importance of not moving. You can sneak up to a group of 4 to 6, move behind them, and assassinate the back 2. Wait. Don't move. re-proc Assassinate and repeat. As long as you don't move, they don't notice. I have snuck up next to guards and have picked up or used devices that take me out of sneak, but as long as I don't move, they don't notice. Open doors, just don't move before you drop back into sneak. They don't notice. BTW Stand next to the door, it will still open, and they won't see you.

Bluff is your friend. Find group. Stand just out of range. Target a Melee. Bluff them to pull them toward you. Back away from where you bluffed. As they swing wildly over there, sneak up and assassinate. Lather, rinse, repeat until all of the Melee are dead. If it draws their buddies, as long as you back away, they will attack the Bluff point, and you can pick them off from there. Now that the Melee are dead, now take care of the casters and the ranged, since bluffing them draws their attack but they don't come to you. So, make sure to cast shield and sneak into the middle of the group.
Assassinate until they notice you and then just start thwacking. TWF mows them down, and evasion, dodge and such, will MOSTLY keep you from getting hit. After Spellcasters are dead, you can clean up the ranged.

I am just soloing Heroic normal and hard, but I can assassinate all the trash in the hallway, and most of the Boss helpers and take no damage. Then I use all my keyboard shortcuts to proc my special attacks, and just go at the boss.

I can't recommend my jump around and panicking technique, but Sneak, Bluff, and Assassinate are awesome. If you have the patience for slow and stealthy.

I hope this helps someone.
 

VinoeWhines

Well-known member
I am new to the game, but have only been playing rogue assassins, and what I discovered is the importance of not moving. You can sneak up to a group of 4 to 6, move behind them, and assassinate the back 2. Wait. Don't move. re-proc Assassinate and repeat. As long as you don't move, they don't notice. I have snuck up next to guards and have picked up or used devices that take me out of sneak, but as long as I don't move, they don't notice. Open doors, just don't move before you drop back into sneak. They don't notice. BTW Stand next to the door, it will still open, and they won't see you.

Bluff is your friend. Find group. Stand just out of range. Target a Melee. Bluff them to pull them toward you. Back away from where you bluffed. As they swing wildly over there, sneak up and assassinate. Lather, rinse, repeat until all of the Melee are dead. If it draws their buddies, as long as you back away, they will attack the Bluff point, and you can pick them off from there. Now that the Melee are dead, now take care of the casters and the ranged, since bluffing them draws their attack but they don't come to you. So, make sure to cast shield and sneak into the middle of the group.
Assassinate until they notice you and then just start thwacking. TWF mows them down, and evasion, dodge and such, will MOSTLY keep you from getting hit. After Spellcasters are dead, you can clean up the ranged.

I am just soloing Heroic normal and hard, but I can assassinate all the trash in the hallway, and most of the Boss helpers and take no damage. Then I use all my keyboard shortcuts to proc my special attacks, and just go at the boss.

I can't recommend my jump around and panicking technique, but Sneak, Bluff, and Assassinate are awesome. If you have the patience for slow and stealthy.

I hope this helps someone.
These are all great points and the basis to be a stealthy assassin. If you ever have an idea of trying something, you can try on Normal difficulty and see if it lands, you might have to reassess the strategy on going about your idea but if you keep at it, you could possibly make it work. Then you can try on Hard/Elite to see if things change. Reaper is where things get much difficult and less room for error but if you keep at it, you can still try to pull it off; sometimes what you thought would work might not be reliable but at times it can come in handy for certain situations, more so in a group when your not drawing aggro, as you would when soloing[ we use to be able to make a mob our pet(Shadow Manipulation "Dominate Monster spell") and have them draw aggro for several seconds, but they took that ability away to give it to Shiradi Champion in Beguile = Which makes no sense being a safer range distance option Epic Destiny as oppose to melee touch range, Epic Destiny.].
So try learning different strategies/abilities/clickies, as I notice this helps when playing with others that are underpowered than you, to help incapacitate a mob so that they can contribute to taking them out.
 

DYWYPI

Well-known member
When you Solo play Assassin, you make plenty of observations about your environment and how the groups of mobs are positioned or moving, etc. You'll also have to learn to be patient and watch your chosen "mark" and make your deadly strike count.

It's generally not advisable to blindly rush around and aggravate large mobs; since you'd be potentially losing your valuable Sneak Attack bonus, when more than one monster tries to pound you.

An Assassin will typically separate a single monster from the large group via Bluff, or know your limitations on how many mobs your Rogue can handle toe-to-toe if it goes pear-shaped. You won't get Assassinate until: Level 12. So before then you should be learning how to approach mobs without being detected by the main group – picking off lone stragglers or learning how to separate them.

Learn to thin-out and control dangerous groups; so you don't get hemmed in, as that can lead to a fast and stupid death...

You should make good use of Sneak as it will allow you to get very close to your specific target (choose which foe you want to fight) in many cases and dispatch them more efficiently, without alerting the whole dungeon.

If you're playing in a group you typically have the luxury of the other players generating the aggravation, still you want to be flanking and backstabbing. Albeit in groups you don't typically need to be moving in Sneak that often once mob combat has commenced. You still do not want aggravation from the mobs if you can help it. Since you are meant to deal swift massive 'Sneak Attack' damage, and not waste your time trying to slowly wear down an opponent with endless puny swings.

I exclusively play Assassins when at Epic and the majority of the time I'll solo them.

I'm not really into the hardcore "minimum kill discreet stealth runs" I tend to clear all the mobs rather than leave them living. However, within the 'R.O.G.U.E Part Quatre: Call for Stealthy Players!' thread, I obviously wanted most of my kills being provided via Misadventure, [Post #375].

Don't spend too much time in Sneak mode; when in within a group, which is very inefficient. You should be able to get plenty of kills and Sneak attack damage within a group situation and also regularly Assassinate. That's assuming you are doing a quest level difficulty you can handle.

If you've never dealt with traps before then of course you will be a little slower. Albeit you should be still getting plenty of melee action, and you should be able to help debuff some bosses.

The Sneak [button] now seems to be mostly just cosmetic with regards to Assassinate. Because you can stroll up to your amoeboid Ooze opponent (that has no vitals and already can sense you). Aggravate it; get it swinging wildly at you; begin using /dance to annoy it more... Tell it a joke about /death count, ask it "Do you come here often?" ...

Then simply Click Sneak, it will likely miss you, and then hit Assassinate resulting in; a pretty much dead Ooze!
 
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Kodewraith

Active member
I haz more thoughts.

I'm up to 24 now. Defenses get WAY better once the Shadow aura incorp and extra displace kick in. I've been more or less following Tronko's build but I have fewer Racial APs, so I needed to sacrifice something. A couple thoughts:

The Good:
- It is, in fact, a lot of fun to press a button and watch mobs die and then run around to try to find you. While you kill more of them.
- You do a lot of DPS in especially in a group with a tank and a healer. Assuming, of course, there's no Alchi or Sorcerer because basically those toons have already killed everything in the room before you get there.
- SDK racial tree is a very obvious and awesome fit for the dagger rogue.

The Bad:
- The utter lack of self healing really, really sucks.
- It's a _Very_ slow playstyle solo and you better bring a hireling for R1 and get very good at keeping your hire alive in R1.
- The utter lack of AoE.
- The utter lack of CC.

The Ugly:
- The irony of course is that basically only a masoTruly Dedicated Fan would play this build fully solo. It's basically a much slower, less capable monk. Rogue is supposed to be the best solo class, but Warlock or EK PM is so far ahead it's not even remotely funny. Hell, my pally can blunder through things so much faster.
- Displacement out of the SDK tree is the only thing that makes the build functional. Even more than Chain attack.
- To follow the modern build Tronk outlines pretty much requires 16 racial AP to take Greater chain AND No Step Missed. I didn't have anywhere near enough (7 Racial AP) so I ended up with Displacement + only one rank in the Trance and that's about as good as I can do and I still had to loose the 20% movement boost from acrobat which sucks. I may pull out of Horizon entirely and just go with SDK.

Conclusion:
- I'm happy for you all, and salute your dedication to the stealthy life but I will be re-rolling once I hit cap. It's just too damn slow for me. I might actually LR over into mechanic even before then.
 
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