Longbow is a pretty miserable way to level, especially with Horizon Walker

[paddymaxson]

I'm in the last stretch of the racial reincarnation grind at the moment (6 lives to go) and I quite enjoyed doing an inquisitive again alst life but figured I'd do my last drow life as a dark hunter archer. As I'm this close I'm trying to play fun stuff but also trying to only play builds that can reliably solo content or one side of quests that allow splitting. Horizon Walker ain't it.

Something I didn't notice as much of an issue as an inquisitive (probably due to the crazy number of attacks per second) is quite how much bows STILL dry fire at melee range, especially when you're very close and maybe backing up to stay out of melee. It's dreadful still. It's been absolutely miserable seeing my manyshots and tonnes of attacks in a row whiff when this was supposedly fixed last patch.


As for Horizon Walker:
I need to state that I know this is probably actually a really good tree for DPSing raid bosses thanks to its capacity to reduce enemy defenses and to build up archer's focus faster, but I'm not doing that, a lot of DDO players aren't. a lot of us are in the hamster wheel.

The entire tree from the perspective of someone levelling through it with quite a few past lives:
Mark Target (and its core upgrades) great the rare occasion you fight a higher HP boss, no notes apart from the fact during heroic levelling that's not a thing
Max dex bonus in cores: excludes everyone but light armour builds, which means that Dark Hunter has no use for them. It's like they made a universal tree designed for 1 class that already has two ranged trees and then excluded big chunks of it from the archetype of that class that LOSES A RANGED TREE.
Haste: 2 minute cooldown haste that won't last 2 minutes till epic level, basically useless
DDoor: too late by level 18
Capstone: Pretty good, though again the issue is when levelling you fight many mobs, not few mobs with high HP. The core ability of an enhancement tree simply cannot be "does way more damage to 1 guy in a pack of 15 mobs" while levelling. Additionally 2 more manyshot charges is what I'd call paltry. Maybe I'd love it more at epic levels, but I doubt I'll be playing this build into epic. The dry firing ranged attacks and lack of aoe has done me in.

Tier 1:
Eye for accuracy: Standard in tree thing, no notes.
Opening Shot: Pretty good bonus damage
Planar Dodge: Standard in tree thing, no notes.
Skills: Standard in tree thing, no notes.
Conjur Arrow: Fine, mandatory utility ability for an archer

Tier 2:
Walker Training: Standard in tree thing, no notes.
Take the opening: Good!
Protection from evil and good: Good defence
Skilled Navigator: so-so, don'tfind I need more traps save
Favoured enemy: Evil Outsider: GOOD! Especially as a Dark Hunter

Tier 3
No Step Missed: Worst battle trance because it has charges and conditions on use
Two places at once: good? There's some question as to the veracity of the goodness of displacement in reaper.
Hunter's focus: Great until you permanently turn off Archer's focus upon reaching IPS levels because DDO is dense with large mob packs
Tenacious hunter: sort of good, but see marked target
Ability score: Standard in tree thing, no notes.
Walker training: Standard in tree thing, no notes.

Tier4:
Corner the Quarry: It doesn't work on bosses AND all it does is makes one enemy stand still? wooooow Barely useful when levelling, probably OK for high reaper for locking mobs down
Walker's guidance: I really like this, nebulously useful as it is, no notes

Scattershot: !!!!Worst tier 4 enhancement in the game!!!! A melee cleave for bow users, a melee cleave that hits less targets than cleave, seems to dry fire a lot? Mysterious range and cone size? Why not just have it be like Warlock's chain shot? Why does it have to be close range? Why only 3 targets? Boggles the mind. Shares charges with Manyshot for some reason? Waste of manyshot charges. I honestly thought this might fill aoe gaps and allow you to be in archer's focus more...given how theres other archers focus bonuses in the tree.

Ability score: Standard in tree thing, no notes.

Tier 5:
Feywild attunement: Good, though this form of bonuses is available lots of places, it's nice to be able to get it here just in case
Banish the quarry: Good but not sure it's worth getting corner the quarry just to get this
Misty step: Good, actually the only tier 5 I wish I could have as a dark hunter
Powershot: Sounds good but again, when levelling what's some force damage scaled with range power when the manyshot crit has already done thousands of damage?
Improved archer's focus: Again, for levelling archer's focus is very useless once you have IPS.


I don't have a solution or any good suggestions apart from to be less stingy with some of the abilities in the tree that should be standout abilities in the tree, particularly scattershot, the SLAs and anything to do with armour.

Anyway, this was mostly a rant which is mostly just me whining, feel free to tell me I'm playing the game wrong now

 

[rabidfox]

You pretty much summed up a bunch of ranged builds (like throwers), play as inquistive while leveling, swap the enhancements at higher level. But it's also kind of sad how long it takes for some builds to mature and feel good to play as intended vs having to using tricks to make leveling feel okay.

 

[seph1roth5]

Yeah was not a fan of horizon walker much. Only reason to take it is if you're dex based because it's the ONLY dex trance. So like...my rogue quarterstaff and...that's it lol. I had similar issues with scattershot too, so many fizzles and was just super unreliable.

 

[Yamani]

Just going to point out that Conjure arrow is not as mandatory as people think. A trick you can do is summon a bunch and shove them into your bank. This way they don't despawn on logout and you can reset your points to save the 2 AP. Just dont forget to go pull out a stack when you login.

 

[Falkor]

You've got a lot of great points there. I feel your pain. Even if you can one-shot a mob with longbow, there are the other ones chasing you. Casters will melt that mob horde, melee will destroy it with cleaves ... archer gets to kite backwards in circles and pew pew pew pew one at a time.

Scattershot is something my archer main never takes. It's such a waste.

And the incessant whiffing of shots gets old fast.

Archers / ranged are really much better once hitting epic and getting Shiradi stance. I fully believe HW is more for end-game. But it can be useful in heroics for the easy +1 to crit multiplier and threat. I also like the misty step.

Proper gear really helps alot, need to have the best bows possible or the DPS drop significantly. In heroic, sapphire sting is solid. Silver Longbow is another top option. So is a heroic greensteel, but thats really hard to farm now-a-days. Twisted Willow at lvl 15 works in a pinch.

I see a lot of players grab the barovian bows, and they are nice but no where near good enough.

Imbue dice really help immensely in heroics. They can do as much damage, and more, than physical damage. Except when the physical critical hits, that's the most damage possible. The imbues help for sustained damage.

If you are going to level 30, having an Epic Thornlord will make a massive difference in dps. The improved critical profile is huge.

Honestly, in my opinion, if you aren't using a bow with an improved critical profile, it's gimped. The up-tick in damage is ... critical.

I'm also a fan of 1 monk and getting master of forms for that additional critical damage boost. Not sure if you can squeeze that in or not, its hard to make that work in a build without prior planning.

Thing is, most people do not have the gear set aside or optimized when running racials and different classes. While everything you've stated is true to my own experience, there is more to that story.

Also, I am also on the fence about Dark Hunter being a decent archetype for ranged. Maybe for end game, not for leveling. The sneak damage is better suited for group play / raids. The imbue dice lost from AA makes for lower over all DPS. Even 3 or 4 extra imbue dice in heroics makes a noticeable difference in kill count.

One more thing, if you are just going to 20 and reincarnating ... and if you do not have a source for imbue dice ... pick up a class that gives it to you. There really isn't a reason to remain pure dark hunter to cap. Either rogue or paladin can give you that imbue dice for 1 level and few AP points.

 

[Misadventure]

Just going to point out that Conjure arrow is not as mandatory as people think. A trick you can do is summon a bunch and shove them into your bank. This way they don't despawn on logout and you can reset your points to save the 2 AP. Just dont forget to go pull out a stack when you login.

Do they stack?
Can I put them in crafting side?

 

[Natashaelle]

Longbow as a main weapon really does need some deep specialisation and proper gear, so it's not really surprising it doesn't work so well during one particular past life.

Takes me usually three lives before it starts just being OK.

It can be acceptable if you have two fighting styles, one mêlée the other ranged, and can swap between them.

 

[Ozz]

Just going to point out that Conjure arrow is not as mandatory as people think. A trick you can do is summon a bunch and shove them into your bank. This way they don't despawn on logout and you can reset your points to save the 2 AP. Just dont forget to go pull out a stack when you login.

From level 5 you can use a wand of Conjure arrows @ 500 a time and they also have fire damage on them. Just hotbar the bit you want arrows/bolts etc

 

[Misadventure]

From level 5 you can use a wand of Conjure arrows @ 500 a time and they also have fire damage on them. Just hotbar the bit you want arrows/bolts etc

Those arrows finish really fast.

 

[paddymaxson]

Longbow as a main weapon really does need some deep specialisation and proper gear, so it's not really surprising it doesn't work so well during one particular past life.

Takes me usually three lives before it starts just being OK.

It can be acceptable if you have two fighting styles, one mêlée the other ranged, and can swap between them.

I'm actually particularly well geared at level 10 and having a better time this morning now there's no Americans causing server l;oad, hardly seeing dry fires and lots of very big crits.

 

[EinarMal]

I would love for either manyshot and/or scattershot to be improved to be more old school "Diablo 2 style" multi-shot and/or strafe, or some practical AOE arrow attacks in something like arcane archer exploding AOE elemental arrows.

At a minium, they should un-nerf improved precise shot and maybe lower the BAB to 8.

I agree with the way the game is constructed, every type of build needs some decent AOE or it is painful to level.

 

[Pesh]

Just going to point out that Conjure arrow is not as mandatory as people think. A trick you can do is summon a bunch and shove them into your bank. This way they don't despawn on logout and you can reset your points to save the 2 AP. Just dont forget to go pull out a stack when you login.

i barely remember to conjure arrows before i enter combat im not going to the bank to get em

 

[Falkor]

Ahahah, pesh ... thankfully I'm not the only one.

And I've never had the patience to use those wands to spawn arrows. The returning arrows / bolts are savvy and make for a positive gameplay experience. I cannot fathom why anyone would want to micromanage ammunition.

Even when playing inquis, I tend to conjure ten stacks of 1,000 bolts at a time and still go through them so fast. They inevitably run out during boss fights.

And as for 'good gear' versus 'gear optimized for leveling as a heroic archer' .... there is a difference. Anyone who really takes the time to spec for a class and get all those little micro-details optimized will out perform the rest of us.

I'm more of a 'use what I got' kind of player, and can see the difference in effectiveness between what I do and those who put that dedication in.

Consequently, my archer usually gets more kills than anyone in group while leveling in heroics ... unless there are good casters / barbs in group. One shot, one kill is common. But groups of mobs are always a hassle. I don't like solo'ing and leveling archers at all.

 

[Natashaelle]

I would love for either manyshot and/or scattershot to be improved to be more old school "Diablo 2 style" multi-shot

DDO Beta was like that, apparently, and they had to nerf it because it was massively OP.

OTOH it *did* take them around 15-20 years to rebalance ranged versus mêlée ... at least in the fundamentals & basics.

 

[Buddha5440]

Your best gear, for Heroic leveling, is a dual augment CC bow with bludgeoning/slash/pierce at lv 1, 4/5, 9/10, 16, and 19/20. The lv 1 gets you +4d6 damage, the lv 4/5 gets you +8d6 , lv 9/10 gets you +12d6, 16 gets you +18d6 damage,, and 19/20 gets you +20d6 damage, as well as +x enchantment (+1@lv 1, +2@lv 3+, +3@lv 6+, +4@lv 10+, +5@lv 14+, +6@lv 18+). You can also add Vampirism to any bow lv 10+ for constant healing.

These will out perform almost any bow available. IMHO, named bows are pretty much worthless until they become sentient.

FWIW, I have a character that has ~18 PL's and has never used anything but a bow and it is my favorite.

 

[rabidfox]

They should reduce the requirements for taking IPS so it can be taken by level 6 (including changing when rangers get it for free). It wouldn't be anything ground breaking but it would make heroics potentially a bit less painful for dealing with packs of mobs.

 

[Falkor]

I'd be curious to see how the math of those augments breaks down in comparison to critical damage. Physical DPS has traditionally always outperformed augments and imbues. Perhaps that has changed. I've seen Tilo make similar comments, yet he's a master of gimmickry and trickery that gets nerfed, so I always take his posts with a few grains of salt.

And ... having a triple completionist character that is focused on archery ... any bow I've used like that hasn't compared to Sapphire sting, silver longbow or greensteel.

I get critical damage comparable to SoS, which as a ranged, is sick. Crits over ~1k in heroics are common.

I'm curious.

 

[Teh_Troll]

OTOH it *did* take them around 15-20 years to rebalance ranged versus mêlée ... at least in the fundamentals & basics.

Nonsense. Ranged is over-powered as heck right now. DPS is about equal and melee have to get in melee range. This is broken.

Bows are fine, at all levels. If you aren't over performing the problem exists between the keyboard and the chair. Nothing in this game should be adjusted to make anything ranged more powerful.

 

[Teh_Troll]

I'd be curious to see how the math of those augments breaks down in comparison to critical damage. Physical DPS has traditionally always outperformed augments and imbues. Perhaps that has changed. I've seen Tilo make similar comments, yet he's a master of gimmickry and trickery that gets nerfed, so I always take his posts with a few grains of salt.

And ... having a triple completionist character that is focused on archery ... any bow I've used like that hasn't compared to Sapphire sting, silver longbow or greensteel.

I get critical damage comparable to SoS, which as a ranged, is sick. Crits over ~1k in heroics are common.

I'm curious.

Though not typical this was from VOD . . . on R8. Timestop and other vulnerabilty tricks were in play. And I'm a very mediocre ranged player not playing an overly-optimized build.

 

[Zuldar]

Though not typical this was from VOD . . . on R8. Timestop and other vulnerabilty tricks were in play. And I'm a very mediocre ranged player not playing an overly-optimized build.

Guess Suulomades was out sick that day.