Lower the Out-of-Combat timer to 4 sec, and add an OOC UI indicator

[droid327]

Right now I think its at 6 sec?

That's more time than you need to establish you're no longer in active combat. 4 secs is really enough - if nothing attacks you for 4 secs, nothing's going to attack you.

6 secs is long enough that you're often into the next fight before you're out of the first fight. That forces you to stop and wait for the timer before you can do things like self-heal in Reaper. There's just no need to make players do that, its just not fun. A 4 sec timer would let you make better use of the time between encounters to prep for the next fight, without forcing you to slow down your pace.

Also, since you just introduced a new element for Tumble...I'd love to have an option for just one little pip like that, that lit up red when you were in combat and went dark when you're out of combat. Its frustrating trying to manually time your heals when there's no visual indication of when the self-heal penalty is lifted...a lot of times you waste SP on a penalized heal and then have to wait 3 secs to hit it again with no penalty. Even worse in Epic when you rely on the proc heal from EA to top off, and you have to wait another 5 secs to try again.

 

[Xgya]

And a full rest is, what, 24 hours? But your DM doesn't make you wait and come back the next day

D&D has always been about moving players from encounter to encounter, not about making you experience the downtime between encounters

You're arguing that in DDO we spend very little time out of combat, not that whatever counts as "out of combat" should be on a shorter delay here.
As the rules currently are, when you need to be out of combat, you can. If you want to continue running, then it means you don't feel the need to rest.

There's actually a rule in the latest edition that lets the players do that. If the players feel the need, they can start looking for a place to take a break instead of looking for the next encounter: Short Rests.
The whole thing isn't to stop the game, but to have the party's actions be related towards finding a safe spot to rest at instead of running towards the next danger zone.
DDO's difficulty whose theme is "the DM hates you" lets you continue running towards the next danger zone, so long as you're not too quick about it.
Compare: "After being out of combat and *immobile* for X seconds, remove the healing penalty". Would that warrant lowering it to 4 seconds? Maybe. Probably even. Would it feel satisfying? Not to people that want to keep running.

 

[droid327]

There's actually a rule in the latest edition that lets the players do that. If the players feel the need, they can start looking for a place to take a break instead of looking for the next encounter: Short Rests.

But still, that just involves telling the DM "we look for a short rest", not the DM starting a real-world timer before you can do the next thing. That's still fast-forwarding through the down time.

If you want to implement it as a "short rest" button that checks for active combat, immediately clears you to OOC if not, and puts all your attacks on a 6 sec cooldown, I'd be ok with that too

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Can somebody please come in and point out DDO is not D&D?

It's just, well, I've got a sweep going now...

 

[ChaoticDrivel]

Personally, I didn't like the initial change at all and would gladly go back to how it was. I'd much rather heal for a consistent amount, that I know I'm going to heal for, rather than what we have currently(even if it's a lower amount).

To me - attrition and resource management should absolutely be aspects of traversing through dungeons. Not to mention that one of the best things about Reaper mode, was that it promoted cooperative gameplay. Being able to bypass the healing penalty of Reaper mode(one of its core gimmicks that worked fine for years), deters that sort of team play. That is a big negative, to my mind. It's also a way for new & returning players to feel like they are contributing: by throwing out heals to the vets taking the aggro.

If you want to play DDO solo(which is perfectly valid) - then I think on some level, you should expect some obstacles playing that way - particularly on what is supposed to be a challenge mode. It's true that that's not exacly how Reaper mode manifests itself today, but that doesn't mean steps shouldn't be taken that gravitate towards that. Just take a look at all the posts from people who are bored and yearning for more challenge.

I do agree, however, that the implemantion of this out-of-combat healing penalty is clunky and inelegant, to put it mildly. I would still prefer if it wasn't a thing at all, but at the very least - some sort of clear indication(that isn't based on combat music/stances), would be an improvement.

Can somebody please come in and point out DDO is not D&D?

It's just, well, I've got a sweep going now...

But it is D&D. It's in the name. They have a license for it. They are at the whims of WOTC for what gets added to the game, to some degree. The monsters, spells, and classes etc. are largely derived from D&D.

Of course it's not going to be exactly like tabletop D&D. But the association is a big draw, and likely the reason many of us found the game in the first place. It's for good reason too. There is much about D&D that just works. We have got further and further from it over the years, no doubt. I wouldn't necessarily say for the betterment of the game.

 

[droid327]

If you want to play DDO solo(which is perfectly valid) - then I think on some level, you should expect some obstacles playing that way - particularly on what is supposed to be a challenge mode.

Not at all. Solo is not "lesser" than group play. They're both equally valid ways to play the game, and you should never penalize soloing simply because you want to pressure soloists to group up instead.

Soloists should be allowed to solo. Those who want to group up should have that facilitated as best as possible too. The only difference should be player preference.

Challenge is fine, and I'm not asking for the in-combat heal penalty to be removed (though I'd support reducing it a bit in R1 from 60% to start, and then having it scale more per skull)...but forcing you to sit and wait is not a challenge, just a naked time sink

 

[ChaoticDrivel]

Not at all. Solo is not "lesser" than group play. They're both equally valid ways to play the game, and you should never penalize soloing simply because you want to pressure soloists to group up instead.

Soloists should be allowed to solo. Those who want to group up should have that facilitated as best as possible too. The only difference should be player preference.

Challenge is fine, and I'm not asking for the in-combat heal penalty to be removed (though I'd support reducing it a bit in R1 from 60% to start, and then having it scale more per skull)...but forcing you to sit and wait is not a challenge, just a naked time sink

I just don't agree with this. In MMORPG's - there should be some coercion for grouping by design. Maybe "incentive" is a better word. Certainly in one based on D&D. This is even more of the case for something like Reaper mode, which again: is supposed to pose a challenge.

That's not to say the game should make soloing impossible or a chore. But that's not the case at all currently. DDO is already very solo friendly. I actually think it crossed that threshold of being too solo friendly a while ago, and it's to the game's detriment (homogenization of builds, play patterns and so on).

Also, I wouldn't class solo play, or players, as "lesser". I just think it's a different approach. Some days, I want to solo too. But I do so knowing I may be restricted to some degree. And that is fine by me. It's how it ought to be.

I just think the devs should take both solo & group play into account when making design choices. I feel that balance has swayed too much in one direction. Though I understand that not everyone feels the same

 

[droid327]

there should be some coercion for grouping by design.

Absolutely not

Maybe "incentive" is a better word.

Yes, that's different. You can incentivize group play somewhat (Buddy Bonus, no in-combat heal penalty for others, access to raiding, etc.) but you cannot penalize solo play specifically.

That's not to say the game should make soloing impossible or a chore. But that's not the case at all currently.

I'm arguing exactly the opposite. The excessively long OOC timer does make it a chore, because you have to just sit there waiting for the timer to clear before you can heal up, before you can return to active play.