main stat to damage and perfect TWF

[warlock player]

Hi,

So as the game is not all what the description says it to be (I am both entertained and annoyed by this old game feature), I want to have a general grasp of the importance / unimportance of the main stat as melee. For some time I was thinking melee power is the absolute one stat you should max, followed by doublestrike, and it does appear that this is the case for max dps, but I might be wrong / would like some insights.

Also I believe in the long time past there was a difference in using STR to any other stat for damage?


For the purpose of main stat to damage, and other complicated mechanics to determine damage,

How important is STR using CHA as trance stat to have STR maxed, on:

1) THF
2) TWF
3) TWF handwraps (razorclaw / monk)
4) SWF

How important is DEX using DEX as trance, or maybe INT as trance stat on:

1) THF (I believe there's some complicated mechanics in here?)
2) TWF
3) SWF


And the second question on perfect TWF

If any has experience on using perfect TWF and running TWF without perfect TWF, do you notice a lot of difference in dps?

in the style of
1) normal twf
2) vistani style

Many thanks for sharing your knowledge / experience so that I don't have to conduct every single experiment,

 

[Grunndi]

So the short answers:

Yes your main stat is important and you want to max it. Strength can reach the highest numbers for most builds, but usually adds nothing beyond damage (and tactics DCs).

Yes, you want Perfect TWF. (Unless using handwraps, then it just gives HP)

Longer answers are quite a bit more complicated. And if you take imbue heavy builds into account it gets even more complicated. You’re basically asking for a complete breakdown of DDOs damage mechanics for every melee style. It’s much easier to analyze for a particular complete build.

At it’s core you want to maximize:
(Weapon damage) x (doublestrike+100) x (melee power +100)

So increasing whichever is lowest (usually doublestrike until you hit the cap at 100) will get you the best return. But you don’t want to neglect any of them. And the opportunity cost for increasing those stats is rarely 1:1:1. For example a filigree can get you 1 damage, 1 DS, or 5 MP, here MP wins. While 2 AP will generally get you 1 damage, 2 DS, or 2 MP and here DS wins.

So it’s…. complicated…

 

[Dragxon]

So there are 2 big reason why strength is the best stat to damage and those are that it is the default stat to damage which means it doesnt have any build restrictions and also because strength can get 20 ish points higher than other stats through rage and such.

The other not so obvious benefit of strength is that a lot of current gearset just work better with strength then other main stats.

So yes max the main stat as much as you can, though I think you are more asking about how to balance dps stats.

For that I use these numbers from my recent dps calculator using a build that has 200 damage, 340 melee power, 87% doublestrike, and a 200% scaling imbue that is twf and has a crit profile of 16-20x5.

For dps increase equivalents:
1.5 melee power ~ 1 damage
1 doublestrike ~ 1.5 damage
1.5 seeker ~ 1 damage
1.5 sneak attack damage ~ 1 damage
1 imbue dice ~ 3 damage

Now those are just rough equivalents and if any of the 3 main ones (base damage, melee power, doublestrike) are low then it will be a bigger dps increase.

As for PTWF it would be about a 4% dps loss to give it up and is definitely not worth giving up. None of the other epic destiny feats even come close to its damage and it also comes with the bonus of more hp.

 

[warlock player]

So the short answers:

Yes your main stat is important and you want to max it. Strength can reach the highest numbers for most builds, but usually adds nothing beyond damage (and tactics DCs).

Yes, you want Perfect TWF. (Unless using handwraps, then it just gives HP)

Longer answers are quite a bit more complicated. And if you take imbue heavy builds into account it gets even more complicated. You’re basically asking for a complete breakdown of DDOs damage mechanics for every melee style. It’s much easier to analyze for a particular complete build.

At it core you want to maximize:
(Weapon damage) x (doublestrike+100) x (melee power +100)

So increasing whichever is lowest (usually doublestrike until you hit the cap at 100) will get you the best return. But you don’t want to neglect any of them. And the opportunity cost for increasing those stats is rarely 1:1:1. For example a filigree can get you 1 damage, 1 DS, or 5 MP, here MP wins. While 2 AP will generally get you 1 damage, 2 DS, or 2 MP and here DS wins.

So it’s…. complicated…

Thanks for the insight on comparison between DS/DMG/MP, and the answer to perfect TWF.

So STR is only as valuable as a flat damage source, +1 damage for +2 str, and that's it? well *x depending on fighting style I guess, but still, that's it ? I'm asking in this way because long time ago I believe there was another multiplication added if you're using STR for melee.

Sometimes I find it difficult to squeeze in quality strength+3 in the gear.. so I'm debating whether i'd give this up or not.

So there are 2 big reason why strength is the best stat to damage and those are that it is the default stat to damage which means it doesnt have any build restrictions and also because strength can get 20 ish points higher than other stats through rage and such.

The other not so obvious benefit of strength is that a lot of current gearset just work better with strength then other main stats.

So yes max the main stat as much as you can, though I think you are more asking about how to balance dps stats.

For that I use these numbers from my recent dps calculator using a build that has 200 damage, 340 melee power, 87% doublestrike, and a 200% scaling imbue that is twf and has a crit profile of 16-20x5.

For dps increase equivalents:
1.5 melee power ~ 1 damage
1 doublestrike ~ 1.5 damage
1.5 seeker ~ 1 damage
1.5 sneak attack damage ~ 1 damage
1 imbue dice ~ 3 damage

Now those are just rough equivalents and if any of the 3 main ones (base damage, melee power, doublestrike) are low then it will be a bigger dps increase.

As for PTWF it would be about a 4% dps loss to give it up and is definitely not worth giving up. None of the other epic destiny feats even come close to its damage and it also comes with the bonus of more hp.

Wow. Thanks for that comparison.

I always thought 1 melee power > 1 damage, but sometimes it's not the case?

Hmm another question, as you guys seem to know DDO: Is Power Critical ever worth the feat slot? In the old old old days I used to take this cos I wanted damage, but then some time later on (even before melee power was introduced I think) I heard people saying pwr crit is **** so I dropped it in the usual feat routine. What is the truth?

 

[Dragxon]

Thanks for the insight on comparison between DS/DMG/MP, and the answer to perfect TWF.

So STR is only as valuable as a flat damage source, +1 damage for +2 str, and that's it? well *x depending on fighting style I guess, but still, that's it ? I'm asking in this way because long time ago I believe there was another multiplication added if you're using STR for melee.

Sometimes I find it difficult to squeeze in quality strength+3 in the gear.. so I'm debating whether i'd give this up or not.





Wow. Thanks for that comparison.

I always thought 1 melee power > 1 damage, but sometimes it's not the case?

Hmm another question, as you guys seem to know DDO: Is Power Critical ever worth the feat slot? In the old old old days I used to take this cos I wanted damage, but then some time later on (even before melee power was introduced I think) I heard people saying pwr crit is **** so I dropped it in the usual feat routine. What is the truth?

If you are using thf or swf you can get increased ability modifier damage scaling up to 2.5 damage per 2 main stat using thf and 2 damage per 2 main stat while swf. Also the best quality str 3 item is the Legendary Belt of the Ram because it also has rams might which is another 2 strength and 2 damage.

The comparison between melee power and damage is build dependent, I just gave some rough numbers.

Power Critical is 2 seeker so for my builds its about equivalent to 2 melee power from another weapon focus feat but if your builds crit profile is worse than 16-20x5 then the 2 melee power will probably be better. The only asterisk on that is that if you in divine crusader you can get an extra 3 seeker from the tier 4 Purge The Wicked with power critical.

 

[Grunndi]

If you are using thf or swf you can get increased ability modifier damage scaling up to 2.5 damage per 2 main stat using thf and 2 damage per 2 main stat while swf.

Also keep in mind that hand-and-a-half weapons will increase those numbers for SWF/Sword and Board.

And for TWF every 2 points of your main stat will functionally get you anywhere from 1.1-2 damage depending on your off-hand hit chance and whether you’re T5 tempest/handwraps.

Soooo…. it’s complicated….

 

[warlock player]

Also keep in mind that hand-and-a-half weapons will increase those numbers for SWF/Sword and Board.

And for TWF every 2 points of your main stat will functionally get you anywhere from 1.1-2 damage depending on your off-hand hit chance and whether you’re T5 tempest/handwraps.

Soooo…. it’s complicated….

good point.

ok so YET another question. I'm running TWF right now, vistani/dark hunter/ monk.

Is Tempest t5 absolutely required to optimise TWF dps, or can drop for vistani t5 and dex trance(12 pts)?

Many thanks.