Chai
Well-known member
I play my PD in 2 different static groups, one on Sarlona and one on Orien. Currently.
No one is upset here.
Melfs Acid arrow is overtuned (Spawn of Whisperdoom)
- Thread starter rabidfox
- Start date
No one is upset here.
The Narc
Well-known member
And we have the answer, he doesnt like that people are soloing stuff in permadeath when he is running in a full static group.
Check and checkmate.
Of course i may lose this argument?
But i am not wrong!
LeoLionxxx
Lion of Orien
Design and game maintenance question: would it be cleaner to have just 1 version of the spell and adjust the caster's spell power and/or caster levels accordingly? As a software dev I dislike having multiple versions of code which do slightly different things.
So this this scenario, the spider's caster level and/or spell power would just be dialed down so that they do sane amounts of damage again.
Chai
Well-known member
lolwut?
I couldn't care less about what people are doing in instances other than the one I'm in.
And don't try to drag me into this "your PD vs my PD" stuff. it has nothing to do with my position on this topic.
Chai
Well-known member
That was the original intent with MP/RP/SP.
Spittfyre
Active member
In correction to my last post: Just did Belly of the Beast on Epic Elite. Acid Damage was not ridiculous, in fact we took 0 damage from acid, I personally had a 96 acid resist w/ protection added. Then I went to take a look at some release notes and found this for 62.1 (I had taken a break during this time):
Now PLEASE tone it down a bit in other areas? <3
- Quest: Belly of the Beast
- Acid damage in Sineater's belly has been toned down
- Sineater has developed a polyp or two in its stomach, which gives a few places of respite where you can step out of the acid
- Soul stones inside the belly will be automatically moved back outside after the surviving party members successfully escape Sineater
Now PLEASE tone it down a bit in other areas? <3
Tonquin
of Lightning Hammer fame!
So, in theory, yes, it would be cleaner across the whole game to only have one set of effects that deal damage per spell, instead of splitting the spell at the effect level into two effects, one that's applied to monsters and the other that's applied to players. In practice, however, these changes aren't made in a vacuum. To adjust the spell power of every monster in the game to make the old spell match the new spell is not a trivial change, and it would, well, adjust the spell power of every monster in the game. There's a huge gulf between "the theoretical most elegant solution" and "the solution that works" in this case. Adjusting the spell power of the monsters that cast Melf's - even just the Acid Spell Power - would mean that any other Acid spells they cast would be weakened - something that we don't really want to happen. To that end, the best way to fix this bug is the way we have opted to proceed - adjust the malfunctioning spell directly to limit unintentional changes.
rabidfox
The People's Champion
Can I suggest a few other of my bug/QoL threads that could use this level of hotness so they pique interest and get awesome work done on them too?
For what I thought was a simple thing of noticing extra damage being taken, this thread sure got a lot debate action going.On topic for the melfs change buffing monsters...
Arcane Blast's buff to 1d6+4 per CL vs the old 1d6 per CL seems to have buffed every single enemy that uses it, from those spherical constructs whose shadows are floating eyes, to the medusas in the lordsmarch quests to the Ghost Flame they're all on average doing just over double with arcane blast.
This is especially noticeable because force damage is a problematic damage type vs players
I liked the acid update in general. The Tuning needed some work but the changes were good. Spells Arent laughably bad anymore and you cant go swimming in acid just for fun.
The problem with these small specific overhauls is that they create a vast difference between the new and the old within the same sphere, be it quests or enhancement trees. It will create silly situations where these crappy low hp spiders that used to suck now shoot acid machine guns while the rest of the quest is still laughably outdated easy. The new thing is completely disproportionate to the old.
There is just no other feasible way to change this game apart from 1 small thing at a time.
The problem with these small specific overhauls is that they create a vast difference between the new and the old within the same sphere, be it quests or enhancement trees. It will create silly situations where these crappy low hp spiders that used to suck now shoot acid machine guns while the rest of the quest is still laughably outdated easy. The new thing is completely disproportionate to the old.
There is just no other feasible way to change this game apart from 1 small thing at a time.
Chai
Well-known member
lol no.
I'm not sure why a number of people insist on trotting out this "do it for the casuals" or "do it for the new players" stuff, because actual casuals and actual new players do not have any concerns about "biggest xp bonus" or any entitlement to highest favor reward etc. This is a construct of the vets, not the new players or the casuals.
Actually I am 100% sure why, but it won;t get discussed here, because it will open up an entirely new can of worms.
I've been playing DDO for 10+ years. Don't have any brain cells left, clearly.
You're missing the forest for the trees. I admire your consistency though.
Col Kurtz
Well-known member
gotta agree..im not super OP but whisperdoom was fine with the extra Acid damage...of course I was doin a life/class with well over 400 hit points that lvl
mwahahaha ! I'll get your soulstone for youPeople really do not appreciate being rug pulled progression wise and told they now need to play only on lower difficulties than they were doing in the past. Heck I've got a couple games that have four standard difficulties and then an inferno mode with 100 discrete additional levels of difficulty for those die-hard post-game grinder types. And if you go check the achievements less than 10% of players even bother with the highest standard difficulty.
The munchkin crowd will always consume content faster than it can be created and treadmills only keep them occupied for so long... until the carrot runs out. And then they resume complaining, however for all the vocal calls of game too easy they are very much a minority. Let the casual players to play things in peace without exceptionally jarring sudden jumps in damage that are inexplicable compared to everything else being encountered within any given quest. I've seen games that do end up catering to the "make everything harder, and thus better!" crowd by hitting the progression up the ladder instead of merely extending it. Usual result is a game with a few newbies who will soon bounce because they don't feel like their time is valued properly. And then a small angry group of veterans still asking for things to be even harder. With the end result being the ladder that let them get up there in the first place gets pulled ever further up behind them.
So it is indeed a good thing that the value got fixed to be much closer to the old expected values.
The munchkin crowd will always consume content faster than it can be created and treadmills only keep them occupied for so long... until the carrot runs out. And then they resume complaining, however for all the vocal calls of game too easy they are very much a minority. Let the casual players to play things in peace without exceptionally jarring sudden jumps in damage that are inexplicable compared to everything else being encountered within any given quest. I've seen games that do end up catering to the "make everything harder, and thus better!" crowd by hitting the progression up the ladder instead of merely extending it. Usual result is a game with a few newbies who will soon bounce because they don't feel like their time is valued properly. And then a small angry group of veterans still asking for things to be even harder. With the end result being the ladder that let them get up there in the first place gets pulled ever further up behind them.
So it is indeed a good thing that the value got fixed to be much closer to the old expected values.
voenixa121
Well-known member
Power creep always has two sides to it: The players getting stronger and the content getting more difficult to compensate. Making some specific spell deal more damage to players solves nothing. But with this player base, actual balance of player abilities seems also impossible. Most likely we will need another "stat squish" in a few years.
Onyxia2016
Well-known member
The easiest solution is to leave Casual to Elite levels as they were when the veterans ran them way back when, instead of now wanting them harder than they had it originally.
Scale R1 to R10 with a an increasing damage multiple. Say the R number as a multiplier. That mean R10 would be base x 10. Now that would be a sight to see.
This way the new or average player has a good experience and the vets have 10 very difficult levels to chose from. I am sure everyone could find a level that fits there playstyle and ability.
If done correctly R10 should be a suicidal run solo and extremely difficult for a full group of seasoned, well geared players.
If anyone can easily solo R10 then there is a problem. In the old days running R10 meant something. Now days it is just another Friday do to the power creep. Once all that added power is obtained the game is less of a challenge and starts to get boring.
Scale R1 to R10 with a an increasing damage multiple. Say the R number as a multiplier. That mean R10 would be base x 10. Now that would be a sight to see.
This way the new or average player has a good experience and the vets have 10 very difficult levels to chose from. I am sure everyone could find a level that fits there playstyle and ability.
If done correctly R10 should be a suicidal run solo and extremely difficult for a full group of seasoned, well geared players.
If anyone can easily solo R10 then there is a problem. In the old days running R10 meant something. Now days it is just another Friday do to the power creep. Once all that added power is obtained the game is less of a challenge and starts to get boring.
Guntango
Well-known member
We're not all twitch cammyoke stars.
rabidfox
The People's Champion
I was so caught up on the taking a bunch of damage aspect that I zoned over this fix. That'll make melf's far nicer to cast.
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