More Epic Level 23-26 Quests

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DreamingReality

Active member
I get it. Some people solely play endgame content and never reincarnate. There are others who solely go to 20 and reincarnate. However, for those of us who enjoy epics (or at least enjoy epic reincarnating), it is a complete drudge to get to all that new endgame content. We initially had dailies and would bond together running the exact same quests for high XP twice every day to get us through the barren middle epic levels. Now, for anyone who runs a quest more than 1ce per HEROIC life (TR), they have to face nerfed XP that makes those middle levels awful--primarily because there are not enough quests that you can run once and make it from 23 to 26 after one or two epic reincarnations in a row.

I understand getting rid of dailies to encourage people to run new content. The problem is that there is NO NEW CONTENT in this range to get people up to all the new endgame content. There is more than enough heroic content to run 1-20 without repeating quests or running quests way below level to attempt to get up to 20. The person who TRs at 20 can run different quests on their next life or they can run the same ones without any XP penalty.

None of the legendary packs have an epic level quest match in the level 23-26 range. The newest quest pack in these epic levels is White Plume Mountain--from 2018. (Catacombs was made epic in 2020, but there is little different quest-wise from the heroic versions).

Compare--
Epic Level 23-26 Quests (4 Levels) : Gianthold, Druids Deep, Catacombs, Demonweb, WPM, High Road, Three Barrel Cove, Wheloon, Madness 3, Study in Sable (Total of 48 Quests/Raids)

Legendary Level 31-34 Quests (4 Levels): Search and Rescue, Good Intentions, Memoirs, Disciples of Rage, Against the Slave Lords, The Mines of Tethyamar, Legendary Chronoscope/HOX/Tempest Spine raids, Dragonblood, Feywild, Hunt and Hunted, Planar Eyes, Ravenloft, Sharn, Saltmarsh, Artificier Raids, Soul Splitter, Lost Gatekeepers, Grip of the Hidden Hand, Catastrophe, Kill Ten Rats, White Plume Mountain, Vale of Twilight, Lordsmarch, Illithid Invasion, IOD, Vechna Unleashed, TOEE (Total of 159 Quests/Raids)

Please create new quests/packs/expansions that are Epic level 23-26. They can then have a Legendary option, as well. Removing one way to level through epics (dailies) and not providing an alternate was unfair.
 
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erethizon1

Well-known member
They stopped adding epic quests because there is no need for them. When you ETR back to 20 you can post a group for legendary quests and let anyone from level 20 to 32 join. Legendary quests are great because everyone 20 or higher can play them. It makes forming groups extremely easy. Legendary players cannot play epics (without preventing running on reaper and getting no exp themselves) but epic characters can play legendary quests. Thus, there is no reason to ever add another epic quest again. They are doing a good job adding quests that have some heroic option and then some legendary option. This system benefits us all. Even players at epic levels are better off because they get more exp and RXP because legendary quests pay better.

If the problem is gear, I'd like to see them add more gear that drops at heroic and can be upgraded to both epic and legendary (like Saltmarsh). That is a good system that allows for the addition of new epic gear without needed epic quests.
 
kmoustakas

kmoustakas

Scourge of Xaos
I really doubt they will. It's all gonna be 'legendary' now to promote their level cap increases. Slayers, slayers for everyone
 
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PurpleSerpent

Monster Hunter of Moderate Renown
DreamingReality said:
Please create new quests/packs/expansions that are Epic level 23-26. They can then have a Legendary option, as well. Removing one way to level through epics (dailies) and not providing an alternate was unfair.
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There is a reason, as Cordovan discussed on a Fridays at Four a while back, that Epic quests are rare nowadays. The essential difficulty is that any major content release - be it a full expansion or a mini-expansion - needs to be placed in a position where it can maximise accessibility, and therefore sales. This is why all previous expansions save Menace of the Underdark have picked their level ranges so that the Epic/Legendary level is suitable for players at the level cap, and generally tried to place the Heroic level range somewhere in the low-to-mid Heroics to draw in new players and people on the TR train. Epic levels are simply not worth investing in, because the range of players likely to stick around in that level bracket is much lower. (People already complained about Vecna Unleashed being heroic level 18.) That rules out Epic-level expansions - and by extension, any adventure packs tying into the storyline for those expansions, which need to have a similar level range to allow you to play through them in the right order.

This isn't to say that Epic Levels have been completely abandoned - the updates to Delera's Tomb and the Catacombs, plus The Promise of Fire, were helpful additions, although even those are a couple of years old now - but new content being added at those levels is very unlikely, especially with another increase to the level cap on the way this summer. (Hopefully the next classic adventure pack update will add Epic difficulty - none of the packs remaining except perhaps Devil Battlefield seem that suited to Legendary play.)

There has been discussion of trying to split some content into Heroic/Epic/Legendary level ranges to fill out Epic Levels, but adding all three to new content is a lot of extra work for the devs, and since their first experiment with applying this to existing content, Legendary Chronoscope, didn't go especially well, I wouldn't be surprised if this idea gets quietly shelved. (Admittedly the Chronoscope thing was adding Legendary content to a Heroic and Epic pack, not the other way around, but I'm not sure that's going to help.)
 
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Ethril

Well-known member
DreamingReality said:
Compare--
Epic Level 23-26 Quests (4 Levels) : Gianthold, Druids Deep, Catacombs, Demonweb, WPM, High Road, Three Barrel Cove, Wheloon, Madness 3, Study in Sable (Total of 48 Quests/Raids)

Please create new quests/packs/expansions that are Epic level 23-26. They can then have a Legendary option, as well. Removing one way to level through epics (dailies) and not providing an alternate was unfair.
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I run LN and LH for much of the content for those levels most lives. LN is surprisingly easy at level 20. I get your point, and it would be cool to get more content explicitly for that level range, but there's nothing preventing someone from running 20-22 content or 27-34 content at those levels. Also, it seems that many people - at least on Sarlona - are running S/R/E at those levels.
 
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Ethril

Well-known member
PurpleSerpent said:
There is a reason, as Cordovan discussed on a Fridays at Four a while back, that Epic quests are rare nowadays. The essential difficulty is that any major content release - be it a full expansion or a mini-expansion - needs to be placed in a position where it can maximise accessibility, and therefore sales. This is why all previous expansions save Menace of the Underdark have picked their level ranges so that the Epic/Legendary level is suitable for players at the level cap, and generally tried to place the Heroic level range somewhere in the low-to-mid Heroics to draw in new players and people on the TR train. Epic levels are simply not worth investing in, because the range of players likely to stick around in that level bracket is much lower. (People already complained about Vecna Unleashed being heroic level 18.) That rules out Epic-level expansions - and by extension, any adventure packs tying into the storyline for those expansions, which need to have a similar level range to allow you to play through them in the right order.
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A solution would be for the levels of new content to be 21 and 34 (so epic and legendary rather than heroic and legendary). However, that probably cuts into their profits by turning off people who want more heroic content (grinding past lives).
 
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misterski

Well-known member
Ethril said:
A solution would be for the levels of new content to be 21 and 34 (so epic and legendary rather than heroic and legendary). However, that probably cuts into their profits by turning off people who want more heroic content (grinding past lives).
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IIRC, epic and legendary quests are identical "under the hood", so they can't do this. A dev posted about this years ago when the question first came up. Maybe they've fixed the issue since then, /shrug.
 
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Mesmerin

Well-known member
FaceDancer said:
Agree with refreshing some of the older stuff and including an epic option. Maybe add an epic version of Threnal?
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An Epic Mantle of the Worldshaper would be sweet to go alongside my epic voice. Threnal needs some love anyway, the way the quest levels jump all over the place between the different excavations is annoying if you're trying to keep bravery bonus or run them on hardcore.
 
Phoenicis

Phoenicis

Savage's Husband
Mesmerin said:
An Epic Mantle of the Worldshaper would be sweet to go alongside my epic voice. Threnal needs some love anyway, the way the quest levels jump all over the place between the different excavations is annoying if you're trying to keep bravery bonus or run them on hardcore.
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Bravery bonus is. . . Gone. Has been for ages.

For HC you do the 8s (both of them) at level + whatever, then finish the chain next level.

Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk have the same issue on HC BTW.
 
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Ethril

Well-known member
Phoenicis said:
Bravery bonus is. . . Gone. Has been for ages.

For HC you do the 8s (both of them) at level + whatever, then finish the chain next level.

Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk have the same issue on HC BTW.
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Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk don't have the same issue as their levels are consecutive. Threnal goes higher and then lower again. Delera's has that issue, but the devs resolved so it still functions on HC.
 
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Eelpout

Active member
DreamingReality said:
I get it. Some people solely play endgame content and never reincarnate. There are others who solely go to 20 and reincarnate. However, for those of us who enjoy epics (or at least enjoy epic reincarnating), it is a complete drudge to get to all that new endgame content. We initially had dailies and would bond together running the exact same quests for high XP twice every day to get us through the barren middle epic levels. Now, for anyone who runs a quest more than 1ce per HEROIC life (TR), they have to face nerfed XP that makes those middle levels awful--primarily because there are not enough quests that you can run once and make it from 23 to 26 after one or two epic reincarnations in a row.

I understand getting rid of dailies to encourage people to run new content. The problem is that there is NO NEW CONTENT in this range to get people up to all the new endgame content. There is more than enough heroic content to run 1-20 without repeating quests or running quests way below level to attempt to get up to 20. The person who TRs at 20 can run different quests on their next life or they can run the same ones without any XP penalty.

None of the legendary packs have an epic level quest match in the level 23-26 range. The newest quest pack in these epic levels is White Plume Mountain--from 2018. (Catacombs was made epic in 2020, but there is little different quest-wise from the heroic versions).

Compare--
Epic Level 23-26 Quests (4 Levels) : Gianthold, Druids Deep, Catacombs, Demonweb, WPM, High Road, Three Barrel Cove, Wheloon, Madness 3, Study in Sable (Total of 48 Quests/Raids)

Legendary Level 31-34 Quests (4 Levels): Search and Rescue, Good Intentions, Memoirs, Disciples of Rage, Against the Slave Lords, The Mines of Tethyamar, Legendary Chronoscope/HOX/Tempest Spine raids, Dragonblood, Feywild, Hunt and Hunted, Planar Eyes, Ravenloft, Sharn, Saltmarsh, Artificier Raids, Soul Splitter, Lost Gatekeepers, Grip of the Hidden Hand, Catastrophe, Kill Ten Rats, White Plume Mountain, Vale of Twilight, Lordsmarch, Illithid Invasion, IOD, Vechna Unleashed, TOEE (Total of 159 Quests/Raids)

Please create new quests/packs/expansions that are Epic level 23-26. They can then have a Legendary option, as well. Removing one way to level through epics (dailies) and not providing an alternate was unfair.
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I would definitely like to see more quests and variety added to this level range as well.
 
FaceDancer

FaceDancer

Olde Wurm
I agree kmoustakas. Marketing for epic levels is the problem. Which means that at some point we get to eat our meals twice (low level content plus epic or legendary versions). The problem is that eating the same meal twice isn't always great (unless it's that good...)
 
Fizban

Fizban

Well-known member
DreamingReality said:
Compare--
Epic Level 23-26 Quests (4 Levels) : Gianthold, Druids Deep, Catacombs, Demonweb, WPM, High Road, Three Barrel Cove, Wheloon, Madness 3, Study in Sable (Total of 48 Quests/Raids)

Legendary Level 31-34 Quests (4 Levels): Search and Rescue, Good Intentions, Memoirs, Disciples of Rage, Against the Slave Lords, The Mines of Tethyamar, Legendary Chronoscope/HOX/Tempest Spine raids, Dragonblood, Feywild, Hunt and Hunted, Planar Eyes, Ravenloft, Sharn, Saltmarsh, Artificier Raids, Soul Splitter, Lost Gatekeepers, Grip of the Hidden Hand, Catastrophe, Kill Ten Rats, White Plume Mountain, Vale of Twilight, Lordsmarch, Illithid Invasion, IOD, Vechna Unleashed, TOEE (Total of 159 Quests/Raids)

Please create new quests/packs/expansions that are Epic level 23-26. They can then have a Legendary option, as well. Removing one way to level through epics (dailies) and not providing an alternate was unfair.
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I couldn't agree with you more OP. SSG took a lot of the Epic level quests you mention at those levels and moved them to Legendary levels. I'm sure with the antitipation of the level CAP increase(s) upcoming to ensure they have content. The problem is that they now have the GAP at the levels you mentioned.

I'm generally very pro-SSG or DDO developers in many content related items but I think there is a mistake here. SSG should have just created more content to either add to endgame or for the epic levels 23-26 while moving that content to Legendary.

Make more content at the levels where gaps exist.
 
Onyxia2016

Onyxia2016

Well-known member
If you are running a first life you will find enough quests to get you through the epic level. However on subsequent lives you will have to do slayers or rerun some quests and it just gets worse from there. Having more quests in the low to mid 20's would help break up the repeats.
 
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mikarddo

Well-known member
I see your point but dont feel your pain.

Adding in just a few slayers it is very easy to go 20-cap twice in the same life without rerunning anything - and it is probably even possible to go thrice, I just never see the point in doing so. Do you run several epic past lives duing the same heroic/iconic life?
 
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