Premade Paths suggestions

[seph1roth5]

Premade paths have been pretty bad for a very long time. Devs know and acknowledge it, but have said it's far too much work to fix because they'd have to do each path for each race, and that's a lot of work.

What I suggest is to scrap the overly broad path system and just make a small handful of premade characters with a set race so new players could ease into the game without having a zillion options still. It seems like many new people choose a path not knowing that they're bad, or even how they work really. The game doesn't give you much information on what the path does or how to go off of it.

I'm not going to actually MAKE each character 1-20 but rather just give a broad overview of what I think they should be.


1: Two-handed human paladin (easy)
- str/con/cha
- human for healing amp, extra feat/skill pt, and simplicity. Probably not put too much in the tree
- Knight of the Chalice main obviously. Dps with some aoe
- Splash in sacred defender for LoH support, defensive stance buffs
- Feats: two-handed fighting line obviously, power attack, maaaaybe cleave? Bit complicated to take cleave and swap it out later. Though that could be part of the path/tutorial/intro. Taking cleave early and then at lv 12 have the trainer direct you to the feat swap quest and fred to change it out


2: Rogue halfling thief acrobat(intermediate)
- dex/int/con
- Assassin is strong but most newbies solo, and they'll lose out on a lot of damage. Mechanics will get smacked around and run into aiming problems
- Halfling for healing dragonmark for some support
- Dex for atk/dam simplifies it a lot, good reflex saves for trapping, and quarterstaffs give nice aoe.
- Might be a bit similar to the paly option but a lot of newbies really want to trap also so this gives them that option without crippling solo play.
- Being dex-based rather than int means they're not quite as good at search/DD, but they're probably not playing on reaper either so should be fine.


3: Tiefling Fire sorcerer (advanced)
- For people who want to blast stuff with magic
- cha/con
- Good aoe early on, definitely splash in a secondary element for fire-immune stuff.
- Wouldn't bother with scorch fire stripping til much higher level, like 12+. Just make sure there's a good secondary element until they're further in.
- No real healing so need to guide them to hirelings/wands/scrolls. Make sure to learn displacement


4: Some kind of multiclassing thing? (expert)
- Tons of newbies, if not all of them, want to multiclass, this would be a place to show them how it's done right
- Some sort of swashbuckling kensei maybe? Would be nice to have a splash of something with SOME heals
- Maybe a multi tank? Another trend I've noticed is newbies to gravitate to shield-users. The trick would be to be a little complicated but not be one of those builds that's crap until 18 or something.


With only 4 paths to make, instead of 50+, it should be much much easier to do. And might even be able to have the npcs give more help/information. Maybe even make new Path trainers instead of the normal ones? They could actually tell you when you have a new active ability or to go grab components and such. They could also could give you some gear here and there to help, like a low lv trapping item or spellpower scepter.

 

[droid327]

I still say if you're going to put any effort into it, put enough effort to renovate it into something complete and futureproof: importable builds

You can design any build in a builder, and export a file that's essentially all the build choices at each level. The game imports that file during character creation, verifies that all the choices are valid for your account and you've made all the necessary selections, then uses that as your "path" from that point.

That'd let you automate the leveling process for each different life while TRing...it'd let you quickly level back to 20 while ETRing...it'd let you share build files with other players (assuming they have access to everything you do), it'd be a much greater QOL improvement than just supporting a few new-player builds.

 

[l_remmie]

First of all lets adress the fact that DDO has an absolute colossal difficulty barrier to entry. It beats Magic and i assume even quantum mechanics.

It is absolutely mind boggling ssg and turbine before them havent done more to lower this barrier. Without new players your game dies.

They should remove those paths and they should have done that a decade ago. They actively hurt the game.

Instead i suggest they make a big button that shows an example build. Where to put points and what feats to take and maybe a little explanation.
Just keep it as short and simple as possible.

 

[axel15810]

That's not a bad idea to limit the paths to 1 race per class. That'd narrow it down to 15 builds, 21 if archetypes are included. Still, the builds would get outdated over time. And new players may get frustrated since they might be very set on a race which is not the one supported. Still, might be a better solution than having all bad builds. And devs should be able to put together basic simple pure class builds which wouldn't get too outdated over time. And honestly, the playerbase would probably be more than happy to put together those 21 builds for the devs if asked.

 

[Darksteel]

Tolero should have removed these path suggestions the moment she became exec. producer. Instead she spent 2 years to change Amber quest because she couldn't complete it.

 

[CherryBomb]

I think that they did attempt to make predefined characters. They are the iconics. But DDO still gives allows players to reject the pathing which is a good thing.

 

[saekee]

I understand that the reason they have not updated the pre-made paths is that it is too much work (and hey—who wants to do work that helps new players?). So focussing on just a few is a great idea—if the game changes they can update them easily enough.
So I agree with the OP on the main idea—create four ‘types’ and maintain them well—even have them at character creation and just eliminate the existing ones.

If I had to make four predefined paths, I would do this:
1) pure barbarian, human—dumb, easy playstyle, fast running with dragonmark with expedite clicky so they do not get discouraged. Later levels if they get clever they can use it for ddoor usage too.
2) Tempest trapmonkey, Dex scimitar, elf—everyone likes TWF in theory and so an elf makes easy sense here, introduce them to trapping and all its glories. Some casting too.
3) tank Paladin, human—first intro to casting, but self-reliant and strong
4) Wizard, drow, caster Int based
#4 new players would need to unlock but then they should not be making a drow wizard for a maiden voyage…

These have the four armor types too.

Cleric—no they will get frustrated that no one needs their crappy heals and they won’t be able to kill stuff
Rogue—too skilled. Acrobats need too many stats to make them work
Fighter—A fair point can be made to swap out barb for fighter but I chose barb for run speed; they can take the blood sacrifice and be invincible
Sorcerer—too vulnerable for a new player
Bard—too complicated
Monk—is it F2p? Too complicated

 

[seph1roth5]

I still say if you're going to put any effort into it, put enough effort to renovate it into something complete and futureproof: importable builds

That'd be great but also not exactly a replacement for premade paths. Paths seem more for new/returning players that don't know how everything works. Importable builds would be a great addition too, but I think there should still be a few in-game ones or a new player would be looking through a ton of "newbie friendly builds!" and still have trouble. DDO actually could use an overhaul on intro/tutorial in general, and this would be a part of it. Almost every newbie comes into the discord (with a janky character) and has no idea what hirelings are or how helpful they can be at the start, how to spend AP (one guy had hit lv 5-6 without ever spending any!). Then if they finally finish korthos they get to the harbor and are equally lost because there's zero direction.

That's not a bad idea to limit the paths to 1 race per class. That'd narrow it down to 15 builds, 21 if archetypes are included. Still, the builds would get outdated over time. And new players may get frustrated since they might be very set on a race which is not the one supported. Still, might be a better solution than having all bad builds. And devs should be able to put together basic simple pure class builds which wouldn't get too outdated over time. And honestly, the playerbase would probably be more than happy to put together those 21 builds for the devs if asked.

I'd definitely like 1 path/class, but that's a lot more work as well. I was trying to go for the least amount of work while still offering paths for newbies lol. Then, if those prove relatively easy to do, they could trickle out more over time. If they REALLY wanted to save time, they could just put out polls and have the community do most of the work on the builds as well

 

[droid327]

That'd be great but also not exactly a replacement for premade paths. Paths seem more for new/returning players that don't know how everything works. Importable builds would be a great addition too, but I think there should still be a few in-game ones or a new player would be looking through a ton of "newbie friendly builds!" and still have trouble.

Why not? People ask in social media all the time for newbie builds, or check DDO websites, follow streamers, etc. Import builds would let them all simply share a file. If you wanted a short list of "official" newbie builds, Cordo could simply post a sticky or host them on the website

The advantage of that system over native paths in-game is they'd be far easier to update after changes

 

[tsotate]

Allow importable builds, and put up a community poll each quarter/month/update on which should be the current newbie paths. That would avoid the devs having to constantly update builds and also avoid newbies having to look through giant build libraries.

 

[seph1roth5]

That all sounds like something very different and separate from what I'm suggesting, which is just to streamline the path system to be useful, far less work, and better for newbies.

As is, the paths are not only useless, they're a trap. New people take them and get stuck with bad starts to their character. If they're not going to update/fix them, they should just be removed.

 

[mbartol]

It is different, but wouldn’t rely on developers’ time/effort to maintain. This alone prevents it from becoming a static snapshot in time.

Furthermore, it expands the usability beyond new/returning players. Any build can be fed into it to support veteran players—especially when rebuilding a character during Epic Reincarnation.

 

[FaustianBargain]

That'd be great but also not exactly a replacement for premade paths. Paths seem more for new/returning players that don't know how everything works. Importable builds would be a great addition too, but I think there should still be a few in-game ones or a new player would be looking through a ton of "newbie friendly builds!" and still have trouble. DDO actually could use an overhaul on intro/tutorial in general, and this would be a part of it. Almost every newbie comes into the discord (with a janky character) and has no idea what hirelings are or how helpful they can be at the start, how to spend AP (one guy had hit lv 5-6 without ever spending any!). Then if they finally finish korthos they get to the harbor and are equally lost because there's zero direction.



I'd definitely like 1 path/class, but that's a lot more work as well. I was trying to go for the least amount of work while still offering paths for newbies lol. Then, if those prove relatively easy to do, they could trickle out more over time. If they REALLY wanted to save time, they could just put out polls and have the community do most of the work on the builds as well

I like the limited number of paths fitting a general and widely understood role (healer, tank, DPS, supporting trap monkey, etc) vs a specific class driven path. That would reduce complexity and flex the best feature of DDO; character customization.

Looking at what’s popular in 5E could be useful in rounding out the list - I suspect a lot of people might come in wanting to build a tiefling warlock or whatever their favored desktop build is. Giving someone some similar options here could make the game a bit more accessible.

 

[Chai]

Premade are what iconics should have been. Then their excuse of "having to make it for every race" would be invalid.

If F2P or Premium, it stays level 1 but when you earn levels in game you go to the trainer and level, but the level is preprogrammed.

VIP = all the options you have now. Level it however you like.