Svirfneblin
Well-known member
It lacks focus, function, is too AP expensive, too Ki expensive. And Real buggy too. And no crowd control, and is both DEX and WIS based.
Bleh!
Bleh!
Upvote
8
Revamp the Ninja Spy tree
- Thread starter Svirfneblin
- Start date
ForeverZero
Well-known member
Dark monks always got the shaft amd minja spy was never any different. I do wish they made dark monk at least a valid option in general. I havent even looked at ninja spy in years i think for some of the reasons above you stated.
Edit; I'm only melee most of the time. And shintao or henshin is argueably better option for melee. I just dislike heroic ranged leveling. Figured melee/ranged differential is a key reasoning why i don't much care for ns.
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Hipparan
Member
IMO Ninja Spy needs more stealth-based abilities. An assassinate-like ability would be neat. Back before enhancement trees there was a prestige enhancement called Dance of the Water Strider. Not particularly great and pretty nice, but being able to run over lava/water is a pretty cool ability.
ForeverZero
Well-known member
Only problem was it only worked in legitimately like one quest and in harbor. It was fun being jesus in harbor and people asking me questions bout it. But then like everything else it was nerfed. Touch of death being a prime example. It went from great to good, to good but less often, to bad, to terrible.
Fisto Mk I
Well-known member
Arguable, but viable. Currently main purpose for NS - ranged builds, but here also present many never-used-for-anyone melee option like elemental strikes and such garbage. Need be more focused for ranged, agreed.
It's clearly wrong, NS perfect/mandatory tree for many best ranged DD builds, like shuri-thrower builds.
Example? All +1 Ability anyways cost 2 AP in any tree, and SA dice too, they must cost 2 AP for balance.
Example? Most usable Shadow Veil cost only 15 ki, Diversion cost 50, but for effect it provide it's really very balanced cost. All melee if any present i drop as irrelevant for ranged tree.
Example?
Arguable, Flash bang is clearly CC. Best? No. Exist? Yes.
Versality is good! And for Shuri-thrower you anyway need both, for DS and RP.
ForeverZero
Well-known member
But... but... shadow veil only lasts 1 minute! 1 ki every 4 seconds is such a travesty! Though it could be reasonably argued that its useless in reaper content after.... r4? Maybe 6. But that's a niche case since whenever i mention anything about reaper its always such a touchy topic to someone. But it is what it is.Arguable, but viable. Currently main purpose for NS - ranged builds, but here also present many never-used-for-anyone melee option like elemental strikes and such garbage. Need be more focused for ranged, agreed.
It's clearly wrong, NS perfect/mandatory tree for many best ranged DD builds, like shuri-thrower builds.
Example? All +1 Ability anyways cost 2 AP in any tree, and SA dice too, they must cost 2 AP for balance.
Example? Most usable Shadow Veil cost only 15 ki, Diversion cost 50, but for effect it provide it's really very balanced cost. All melee if any present i drop as irrelevant for ranged tree.
Example?
Arguable, Flash bang is clearly CC. Best? No. Exist? Yes.
Versality is good! And for Shuri-thrower you anyway need both, for DS and RP.
10 ki per sa die seems a more than adequate trade off imo. AND you go invis and aggro gets shifted OFF of you? So you can actually utilise the 5 sa you get from the effect? 75 ki is also fair imo. Many more casual players i think particularly don't understand how valueable and devestating sneak attack dice can be. My barb/druid in winter wolf for example has 26d6 sa dice. I'd love to get a deaggro and +5 sa die for that
In heroics however it can be sometimes an annoyance to build ki. But i learned a long time ago to just bite the bullet and only use earth strike for dps rotation as a melee. The others are niche and not a super great value since elemental damage. +16 damage added to all hits is beneficial and about the only one worth it imo. The others are only a use for finishing move buffs for niche scenarios.
It was buggy back when water strider was a thing. The thing that never worked. I do miss pre nerf touch of death though. In all fairness, truthfully i haven't done anything really monk focused in ages since they're pretty glass cannony as a whole. Harder to just yeet into a room and live on a monk than say a barbarian. Most the beenfits a monk has i have at cap in light armor as well.
-30%+ dodge ( at least in reaper ) also not as high a monk but barb dr be damned. I will take less damage most likely.
-Evasion
-Ki, though i cant use it.
-I get to look bad ass, punch and roundhouse kick like a psycho. Though i dont.
Only two of those are realisitically useful though.
Wolvanthor
Member
I am having alot of fun playing the old Shuricannon build. Not interested in Reapers, but enjoying elites. Fun is priority; Sneak Attack is amazing, just send in my hireling for distraction, then mow down the room with shuriken. Next.
seph1roth5
Well-known member
So you're saying they need a bow-only assassinate?
I'm not going to argue with anything else you said, but isn't Touch of Death meant to be this? Or sort of this?
On a stunned enemy, and considering (Im at least 90% sure) Touch of Death will hit twice if you're Two Weap Fighting and both attacks land, ToD alone will do a lot of damage? Like, thousands?
It's not just a straight up "Save or Die", I grant you, but at least you can use it in combat unlike Assassinate where once combat starts you have to stop attacking and toggle into sneak stance just to do it
Fhrek
One Badge of Honor achieved
After I started multiclassing my main Monk with splashs of Fighter or Druid or Cleric or FvS.... straight up stop playing Monk and never cameback.
Sad, because is the class I like most. But, as others point out above, it isn't funny and effective as a Barbarian for DPS or others archetypes for Sneak.
saekee
long live ROGUE
Kusarigama, the ninja technique of kama and chain, belongs in the ninja tree. Not sure where. Tier 5? A core? It might look like this:
While holding a Kama in your main hand, you gain feat: Spiked Chain Attack. This is the same as the Shadar-Kai racial chain and would use the same animation.
While holding a Kama in your main hand, you gain feat: Spiked Chain Attack. This is the same as the Shadar-Kai racial chain and would use the same animation.
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Fisto Mk I
Well-known member
Core and update to T5 too. Exactly like Shadar-Kai, yea. And not only Kama, any one-handed centered weapon too, like Sickle, Kukri, Dagger etc etc... Monks has many rope/chained weapon in history.
saekee
long live ROGUE
Maybe? I could see the Kyoketsu (dagger example). I would be fine if it were a bit limited also. If it is in Tier 5 then that would certainly limit it to centered monk weapons--short swords, kamas, and with the right feats and enhancements, daggers and longswords. I feel it would be a bit ridiculous with a long sword though and honestly even a short sword seems a bit of a stretch. But I am no ninjitsu expert.
Perhaps have it in Core 3 or Core 4, give it some boost like SdK has in Tier 5 Ninja (maybe But I am no ninjitsu expert.) and perhaps give it Greater Spiked Chain in the ninja capstone: Light Melee Weapon Attack: Using a Spiked Chain (but the stats from your main-hand weapon), perform 3 AOE melee attacks with +3[W], +2 Critical Threat Range, and +2 Critical Multiplier. All abilities that enhance Spiked Chain Attack also apply to this enhancement. In addition, when you vorpal with this attack, you knock (non-boss) enemies down with no save for 6 seconds. Every 2 seconds, they make a Balance save of (17 + Dexterity Modifier + Trip DCs) to get up again. (18 second cooldown)
Here is DDO's SDK spiked chain feat from wiki: Light Melee Weapon Attack: Using a Spiked Chain (but with the stats from your main-hand weapon), perform 3 AOE melee attacks with +1[W], +1 Critical Threat Range, and +1 Critical Multiplier. Your Shadar-Kai Racial Enhancements may add to this attack. (12 second cooldown). -->So this would exclude long swords.
Fisto Mk I
Well-known member
Hipparan
Member
Touch of Death used to be way more powerful back in the day. Same amount of damage, but enemies had fewer hit points. Perhaps Touch of Death could give some stacks of the Quivering Palm DC, like what Quivering Palm does when an enemy makes a save.
Svirfneblin
Well-known member
Touch of Death, 500 damage scales with Melee Power, yawn. Costs 50ki which takes a long while to acquire in heroics.