Spell caster levels for non damage spells

[Finn]

How does caster level affect spells that are not damage based? Or if I have extra caster levels (but not MAX caster levels, how does it interact with the Hieghten meta magic ?
examples:

https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gilded_Gloves_of_Sanctity

1) What does the divine Augmentation really do if I always run with Highten on for all my healing spells?


https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Pendant_of_Bottled_Moonlight
2) again, what does the +3 to caster levels actually do for spells like slayliving, destruction, destruction, SLA, cause fear. (yes I know that some of these spells cause some damage if the mobs make the save and don't insta die.)

Thanks,

 

[rabidfox]

1) What does the divine Augmentation really do if I always run with Highten on for all my healing spells?

Heighten only effects the DC saves on spells, it doesn't increase CL. Spells also have MCL, so if using an item that increases CL and if a spell is already MCL capped then it does nothing to improve it.

 

[Arcanaverse]

In addition to potentially increasing damage, additional caster levels also increased your Spell Penetration to overcome monster's Spell Resistance.

 

[Finn]

@Arcanaverse but how do Highten and +CL items interact..

My question is about DC's.
example
Slay living, lv 5 spell. If I use highten, its cast at level 9 (so an increase of 4 DC)
If I am wearing the bottled moonlight pendant, does it increase the 9 to a 12, or does it increase 5->8, and then highten only increases by 1 ?
Note, I do not see any difference in displayed DC, or in mana usage when using or hovering the spell when equipping or not Pendant_of_Bottled_Moonlight but we all have LONG not trusted these displayed numbers when talking about special item affects like this.
--
@rabidfox this is what the highten spell wiki says

This Feat makes spells harder for monsters to resist by raising the effective level of the spell to the highest spell level your character can cast

So understanding how EXACTLY highten and item affects that rase DC|CL of spells interact is very important to me as a DC caster.
--
anyone that can shed some light, would be very helpful. thanks.

 

[Xgya]

@Arcanaverse but how do Highten and +CL items interact..

My question is about DC's.
example
Slay living, lv 5 spell. If I use highten, its cast at level 9 (so an increase of 4 DC)
If I am wearing the bottled moonlight pendant, does it increase the 9 to a 12, or does it increase 5->8, and then highten only increases by 1 ?
Note, I do not see any difference in displayed DC, or in mana usage when using or hovering the spell when equipping or not Pendant_of_Bottled_Moonlight but we all have LONG not trusted these displayed numbers when talking about special item affects like this.
--

So understanding how EXACTLY highten and item affects that rase DC|CL of spells interact is very important to me as a DC caster.
--
anyone that can shed some light, would be very helpful. thanks.

Heighten cares about the CLASS the spell comes from, not your caster level.
For example, a Warlock cannot, under any circumstance, heighten a Warlock spell to have it go higher than 6th. Similarly, a Wizard cannot Heighten beyond level 9.

The Pendant increases caster level, it doesn't do anything to DCs, nor should it.

The feat also seems to care about the spell slots you have access to, so a 15 Wiz/5 Rogue split would manage to heighten to level 8, because that character has 8th level spells, but an item increasing caster level to 17 wouldn't suddenly give the Wizard 9th level spells or the ability to heighten to level 9.

 

[Arcanaverse]

@Arcanaverse but how do Highten and +CL items interact..

My question is about DC's.
example
Slay living, lv 5 spell. If I use highten, its cast at level 9 (so an increase of 4 DC)
If I am wearing the bottled moonlight pendant, does it increase the 9 to a 12, or does it increase 5->8, and then highten only increases by 1 ?
Note, I do not see any difference in displayed DC, or in mana usage when using or hovering the spell when equipping or not Pendant_of_Bottled_Moonlight but we all have LONG not trusted these displayed numbers when talking about special item affects like this.
--
@rabidfox this is what the highten spell wiki says


So understanding how EXACTLY highten and item affects that rase DC|CL of spells interact is very important to me as a DC caster.
--
anyone that can shed some light, would be very helpful. thanks.

Ah, its a difference between Spell level and Caster Level.

Heighten affects Spell level, which increases the Spell DC up to your maximum spell level you can cast for calculating spell DC's. 10+Casting Ability Score Modifier+Spell Level+Bonuses. Spell DC's determines whether or not an effect will be fully applied and/or applied at all to a monster (damage, debuffs, etc..)

The Pendant increases your caster level, which affects damage calculations (ie, 1d6+10 per caster level of damage) and Caster Level checks, aka, Spell Penetration. 1d20+Class level+bonus caster levels+Spell Penetration bonuses vs Monster's Spell Resistance score. Spell Resistance is an extra layer of defense (think of it kind of like Armor Class for spells) that needs to be overcome before a spell can affect a monster. Not all spells are subject to a Spell Resistance check (ie fireball doesn't care, but Slay Living will)

So the order of operations ends up like:
1. You cast Slay Living spell at a monster.
2. Since Slay Living is subject to Spell Resistance, you roll a Spell Penetration check to overcome its SR. (1d20+Class Level+Bonus Caster Levels+Spell Pen)
3. If you succeed, monster rolls its save (10+Spell Level+Bonuses).
4. If it fails, they die. If they succeed it takes damage, 1d6+10 per Caster Level.