SSG: Let's talk about Reaper crafting (and how to improve it)

[TavernBrawler]

So, let's talk about arguably one of the worst crafting systems created in any MMO (subject to individual opinions of course).

To begin with, let me phrase why it is bad IMHO:

1) You need to have a "named item" drop in a quest end-chest. Reaper fragments do not drop from killing reapers. Chance is 33% + 1% every Reaper difficulty.
2) The "named item" needs to have a "reaper" boost tagged to it. We do not know the chance of this roll.
3) You need to "destroy" this "reaper boosted named item" at Reaper vendor. You need to have 55 reaper points to activate this system at the reaper vendor. You get 1 reaper fragment or 5 based on the reaper boost.
4) You need 75 reaper fragments to craft a "reaper boost" on your favored "named item". In theory, you need 75 "reaper boosted named items" to craft 1 reaper boosted item of your choice.
5) You cannot transfer "reaper boost" from one named item to another. It is permanent. You are stuck with that item even it becomes obsolete (level cap, better items in next update etc.). If you need a "reaper boost" on your new named item, repeat step 1-4.

Now that we are done, lets talk about how to improve it. Here are some "quick wins":

1. Drop reaper fragments when you kill reapers. 1 fragment for Carnage, plague, and fear reapers. 5 for Doom and Vengeance reapers.
2. Reduce fragment cost from 75 to 5 fragments (is point #1 not implemented)
3. Make "reaper boost" a colorless augment. This would help us to transfer from one item to another using Jeweler's kit.

Please post your thoughts on how to improve this end-game crafting system.

 

[Fallout47]

So, let's talk about arguably one of the worst crafting systems created in any MMO (subject to individual opinions of course).

To begin with, let me phrase why it is bad IMHO:

1) You need to have a "named item" drop in a quest end-chest. Reaper fragments do not drop from killing reapers. Chance is 33% + 1% every Reaper difficulty.
2) The "named item" needs to have a "reaper" boost tagged to it. We do not know the chance of this roll.
3) You need to "destroy" this "reaper boosted named item" at Reaper vendor. You need to have 55 reaper points to activate this system at the reaper vendor. You get 1 reaper fragment or 5 based on the reaper boost.
4) You need 75 reaper fragments to craft a "reaper boost" on your favored "named item". In theory, you need 75 "reaper boosted named items" to craft 1 reaper boosted item of your choice.
5) You cannot transfer "reaper boost" from one named item to another. It is permanent. You are stuck with that item even it becomes obsolete (level cap, better items in next update etc.). If you need a "reaper boost" on your new named item, repeat step 1-4.

Now that we are done, lets talk about how to improve it. Here are some "quick wins":

1. Drop reaper fragments when you kill reapers. 1 fragment for Carnage, plague, and fear reapers. 5 for Doom and Vengeance reapers.
2. Reduce fragment cost from 75 to 5 fragments (is point #1 not implemented)
3. Make "reaper boost" a colorless augment. This would help us to transfer from one item to another using Jeweler's kit.

Please post your thoughts on how to improve this end-game crafting system.

WOW! Really, on the fast track to the 'easy button'. How about we stop asking them to touch anything for awhile?

 

[rabidfox]

You need to "destroy" this "reaper boosted named item" at Reaper vendor. You need to have 55 reaper points to activate this system at the reaper vendor. You get 1 reaper fragment or 5 based on the reaper boost.

They did drop the requirement to have to reaper points to break things down into frags at least.

 

[DBZ]

50 frags an item

 

[Lyrin]

I think 50 frags per item would be far more reasonable.

I would suggest doom reapers only have a ~50% chance to spawn a chest with 1 reaper fragments for all party members.

 

[rabidfox]

They'll do all the OP's ideas but also make each expansion and adventure pack have a different reaper crafting system with unique frags that only work on gear from that pack to balance it out; cause you know, monkey paw wish.

 

[DBZ]

1-3 frags a saga would remove alot of salt

 

[Zvdegor]

I agree that 75 fragments are too expensive for a reaper boost at the vendor.
The +2 reaper stat on the headwear worth the 75 frags but the other reaper boosts could be sold for 50 fragments (agreeing again)
My other concern is with reaper crafting is that I cant craft the minor boosts at all. One of the best reaper boost (for a melee) is Reaper Enhancement Boost: Power (+3 Mp/RP/USP). It can appear on any named item.
I would pay a prize (like 25 fragments because it is a minor boost) and I would put it on as many of my items as I could and would spare the endless grind to find the perfect item. The chance is almost zero.
Personally I dont find the major reaper boosts at the vendor useful at all (except the ring and the armor boosts, those are decent)
I also think there is an imbalance between stacking (like melee power, USP, PRR/MRR) and non stacking unique single boosts (like saves, HP, attack, dodge, dodge cap)
Non stacking boosts just not worth it to pay the 75 fragments.

Specific reaper bonuses for 75 frags:

• Reaper Goggles Enchantment: +1 Reaper Bonus to attack and +1 to Spell Penetration (found on goggles only) - The +1 attack bonus is a joke for 75 frags
• Reaper Helmet Enchantment: +2 Reaper Bonus to all Ability Scores (found on helmets only). This is decent
• Reaper Necklace Enchantment: +2 Reaper Bonus to melee/ranged/spell power and +2 PRR/MRR (found on necklaces only) - FYI the Reaper Enhancement: Power bonus gives more MP/RPUSP as a minor bonus. The +2 PRR/MRR is an extra here but I would go witht he +3 MP/RP/USP. For 75 frags it should give +5 MP/RP/USP just like the rings and +3 or even +5 PRR/MRR
• Reaper Cloak Enchantment: +1 Reaper Bonus to Dodge and Dodge Cap (found on cloaks only) - This is okish for some build but no effect on heavy armor users. For 75 frags investment it should do something for any kind of build.
• Reaper Belt Enchantment: +10 Reaper Bonus to hit points, and +3 PRR (found on belts only) - the +10 HP is insulting. Make it a 100 or +2% just like the curse !!!
• Reaper Gloves Enchantment: +1 Reaper Bonus to all skills and +3 PRR (found on gloves only) - not good, not bad. I stay neutral here.
• Reaper Boots Enchantment: +5 Reaper Bonus to PRR/MRR (found on boots only) - It is ok and nice especially if the item also has mythic bonus on it.
• Reaper Bracers Enchantment: +1 Reaper Bonus to saves and +3 MRR (found on bracers only) - +3 saves would be better here.
• Reaper Armor Enchantment: +5% Reaper Bonus to AC and +3 PRR (found on body armor only) - This is decent, worth the 75 frags.
• Reaper Shield Enchantment: +25% Reaper Bonus to Fortification and +3 PRR (found on shields only) - this is also decent but would be nice if at the vendor Runearms and Orbs could take this boost. I've seen Runearms and Orbs dropped in quest with this boost so I dont see any reason why we can't craft this bonus on Runearms/Orbs.
• The ring reaper boost are decent. Doesn't need to change it.

IMO every type of bonuses (curse, reaper, mythic) should be a part of a same system and should give the relativly same percent or unique bonuses, like the HP bonus is always 2-3%, AC bonus always 3-5% (regardless if it's reaper bonus or curse) the spell DC bonus always +1, etc.
The degree of the bonus is determined by the nature of the type of the bonus within a range.

Hope @Tonquin will check on theese

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

50 definitely feels like a more reasonable price, but these special reaper bonuses are intended to be chase items so if SSG makes it too easy to add reaper bonuses people will end up with those on every piece of gear which clearly isn't what SSG intends.

 

[Nickodeamous]

I also think 50 is the sweet spot. I agree they are chase items, but by the time you get enough to even craft 1 item, a new pack is out that trivializes your gear.

I did some math on what it would look like if you ran 10 quests a day on r3.

The way it works is if you run R3, you have a 36% chance to pull a named item. Now, I don't know what % of the time it would contain a reaper bonus, so I ran 4 scenarios for 10%-40% of the time a named item drops, it contains a reaper bonus.

for example, If you run 10 quests on R3 and the chance a reaper bonus shows up is 10% (out of the 36% chance you have on a named item), you would pull ~130 named items (with a reaper bonus) per year. Then I estimated that 10% of the time, its a 5 fragment version, and 90% of the time, its a 1 fragment version. You would end up with ~180/year, or enough to craft 2 items...

I feel like the drop rate for reaper bonus is very low, so this example may be even lower if its more like 5% for a reaper boosted item.

Also, the chances go up by skull, but not by much.

does anybody have any data behind what % of the time a reaper item appears??

	R3	R3	R3	R3
Base chance	33%	33%	33%	33%
Reaper	3%	3%	3%	3%
Named	36%	36%	36%	36%
Quests	10	10	10	10
Named Items	3.6	3.6	3.6	3.6
Reaper %	10%	20%	30%	40%
Reaper Items/day	0.36	0.72	1.08	1.44
Days	365	365	365	365
Reaper Items	131	263	394	526
% 5 fragments	10.0%	10.0%	10.0%	10.0%
% 1 fragments	90.0%	90.0%	90.0%	90.0%
Items worth 5 frags	13	26	39	53
items worth 1 frag	118	237	355	473
Total Frags/year	184	368	552	736
crafting Cost	75	75	75	75
Items craftable	2	5	7	10

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

The OP proposal is far too easy IMO.

However I do agree that the cost is much too high, especially given how quickly gear can become obsolete.

Personally I don't deploy any reaper crafted bonuses and wont do so until a stable cap is reached at 40. I'm currently hoarding my reaper fragments. Crafting for me is literally years away as a result.

I can't see dropping the cost to 50 frags, whilst welcome, would change my behaviour in context.

Even so, having played for years at cap running r10s frequently, I don't yet have enough frags for even two items. Getting frags as a focus for play is an impossible farm and enormous grind for me, though I'm almost certainly doing it wrong, or just unlucky!

Personally, to make me gamble my frags on gear obsolescence, the cost would need to be more like 20 frags a pop. That way, garnering frags would have more chance of keeping pace with the changes in gear.

Or, allow transfers of crafted reaper bonuses somehow.

 

[Marshal_Lannes]

Reaper bonuses are supposed to be stretch items. You are not supposed to have crafted reaper bonuses on every item you ever wear. The system is fine as is. We don't need another convoluted crafting system.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Reaper bonuses are supposed to be stretch items. You are not supposed to have crafted reaper bonuses on every item you ever wear. The system is fine as is. We don't need another convoluted crafting system.

But we've already got one. Didn't you notice?

 

[voenixa121]

50 definitely feels like a more reasonable price, but these special reaper bonuses are intended to be chase items so if SSG makes it too easy to add reaper bonuses people will end up with those on every piece of gear which clearly isn't what SSG intends.

Right, and then they will just up the difficulty of new content again to compensate. Let's just leave it as it is: Something min-maxers can chase if they want, but doesn't have any other impact on the game. The same with the curse system.

 

[DBZ]

Just being able to trade gear again would be 1 single thing to do

 

[TavernBrawler]

Reaper bonuses are supposed to be stretch items. You are not supposed to have crafted reaper bonuses on every item you ever wear. The system is fine as is. We don't need another convoluted crafting system.

Are you saying the current reaper crafting is not convoluted? I am 100% sure you don't have a single reaper boosted item and you have never participated in this crafting system. So keep quiet and let adults discuss this issue.

 

[Purr]

I agree that 75 fragments are too expensive for a reaper boost at the vendor.
The +2 reaper stat on the headwear worth the 75 frags but the other reaper boosts could be sold for 50 fragments (agreeing again)
My other concern is with reaper crafting is that I cant craft the minor boosts at all. One of the best reaper boost (for a melee) is Reaper Enhancement Boost: Power (+3 Mp/RP/USP). It can appear on any named item.
I would pay a prize (like 25 fragments because it is a minor boost) and I would put it on as many of my items as I could and would spare the endless grind to find the perfect item. The chance is almost zero.
Personally I dont find the major reaper boosts at the vendor useful at all (except the ring and the armor boosts, those are decent)
I also think there is an imbalance between stacking (like melee power, USP, PRR/MRR) and non stacking unique single boosts (like saves, HP, attack, dodge, dodge cap)
Non stacking boosts just not worth it to pay the 75 fragments.

Specific reaper bonuses for 75 frags:

• Reaper Goggles Enchantment: +1 Reaper Bonus to attack and +1 to Spell Penetration (found on goggles only) - The +1 attack bonus is a joke for 75 frags
• Reaper Helmet Enchantment: +2 Reaper Bonus to all Ability Scores (found on helmets only). This is decent
• Reaper Necklace Enchantment: +2 Reaper Bonus to melee/ranged/spell power and +2 PRR/MRR (found on necklaces only) - FYI the Reaper Enhancement: Power bonus gives more MP/RPUSP as a minor bonus. The +2 PRR/MRR is an extra here but I would go witht he +3 MP/RP/USP. For 75 frags it should give +5 MP/RP/USP just like the rings and +3 or even +5 PRR/MRR
• Reaper Cloak Enchantment: +1 Reaper Bonus to Dodge and Dodge Cap (found on cloaks only) - This is okish for some build but no effect on heavy armor users. For 75 frags investment it should do something for any kind of build.
• Reaper Belt Enchantment: +10 Reaper Bonus to hit points, and +3 PRR (found on belts only) - the +10 HP is insulting. Make it a 100 or +2% just like the curse !!!
• Reaper Gloves Enchantment: +1 Reaper Bonus to all skills and +3 PRR (found on gloves only) - not good, not bad. I stay neutral here.
• Reaper Boots Enchantment: +5 Reaper Bonus to PRR/MRR (found on boots only) - It is ok and nice especially if the item also has mythic bonus on it.
• Reaper Bracers Enchantment: +1 Reaper Bonus to saves and +3 MRR (found on bracers only) - +3 saves would be better here.
• Reaper Armor Enchantment: +5% Reaper Bonus to AC and +3 PRR (found on body armor only) - This is decent, worth the 75 frags.
• Reaper Shield Enchantment: +25% Reaper Bonus to Fortification and +3 PRR (found on shields only) - this is also decent but would be nice if at the vendor Runearms and Orbs could take this boost. I've seen Runearms and Orbs dropped in quest with this boost so I dont see any reason why we can't craft this bonus on Runearms/Orbs.
• The ring reaper boost are decent. Doesn't need to change it.

IMO every type of bonuses (curse, reaper, mythic) should be a part of a same system and should give the relativly same percent or unique bonuses, like the HP bonus is always 2-3%, AC bonus always 3-5% (regardless if it's reaper bonus or curse) the spell DC bonus always +1, etc.
The degree of the bonus is determined by the nature of the type of the bonus within a range.

Hope @Tonquin will check on theese

Can you craft reaper bonuses on cosmetic items? Seems like that would fix the problem with not being able to unclothed the bonus.

 

[Zvdegor]

Can you craft reaper bonuses on cosmetic items? Seems like that would fix the problem with not being able to unclothed the bonus.

It is not possible

 

[Chacka]

Like I suggested a long time ago, I would also prefer to see fragments dropping from killing reapers. This makes much more sense than obtaining them from destroying items with a reaper boost (IMHO).

However, I believe that receiving 1 to 5 full fragments per kill would be excessive. Instead, I would suggest a drop rate around 1/20 to 1/4 of a fragment per kill, which I think is quite generous.

 

[FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted]

heres an idea, make reaper items not be impossible to get. don't need a good crafting system if its possible to pull reaper on items you want. otherwise reducing the cost is fine. also whats wrong with it being "too easy?" the devs balance the entire endgame around having max reaper gear (at least for DCs in reaper mode) so I fail to see this as a reasom