vryxnr
Well-known member
Soloing them IS something special, and it also IS possible. Both statements can be true. It's not a dichotomy.
Shortmanning is easier than soloing. It's also an accomplishment compared to always being in a full group. But it is also possible. All it takes is a little bit of effort and flexibility.
DDO raids are much easier and more forgiving than raids in other games, especially on the lower difficulties. But that doesn't mean all challenge or prestige is non-existent. That doesn't change the fact that - if someone is willing to put in the effort - many raids CAN be soloed. Not guaranteed, but can be. The main reason soloing was brought up was as a counter to the claim that "I am blocked from raiding because I can't find groups". That is simply factually not true, as those who have put in the time, effort, flexibility with builds, and personal skill, have been able to solo and shortman raids (completed raids without having a full group). This doesn't mean everyone can solo raids, but it does mean that the statement "you have to have a full party to do raids" is simply not true. Soloing is just the extreme opposite.
It's also the absolute nature of the claim that causes a lot of the pushback imo (well, that and the attitude coming with it).
It's one thing to say you don't raid because you don't like the concept of raids.
It's one thing to say you don't raid because you feel your character's power is not ready for it yet.
It's one thing to say you don't raid because you are not personally skilled enough or capable of fast reactions that are sometimes needed.
But those were not the claims or complaints being made. The OP's complaints were there were no one joining their groups and that they can't raid without others. Hence the suggestion of lowering the difficulty and shortmanning, or even learning to solo.
You know why I started to solo raids? I had some really negative experiences with other people being jerks, and decided it's not worth the annoyance of dealing with people like that. Rather than giving up on raiding, I pushed myself to be better until I could solo raids. It also helps that I enjoy challenges like that and figuring things out (how do I deal with these mechanics while solo, etc). It wasn't about not being able to group, it was not wanting to group at that time.
That was many years ago. Now I'm leader of a guild that raids 3 times a week with a focus on being new player friendly and teaching raid mechanics so everyone can learn, participate, and better themselves to be better contributors to success in non-guild groups, and eventually push raid difficulty as well (we're no where near the level of guilds on other servers, but we've built a community that is - I hope - non-toxic and friendly and able to work towards that level via encouragement rather than elitism).
However, the excuse of "I can't participate because people, therefor no one can, or should be able to even try" as the OP essentially said (by asking for raids to be removed from games), is a load of foul. It is not black and white as portrayed. There are ways around such obstacles. That is one of the things the talk about shortmanning and soloing was supposed to relay.
And yes, this takes effort. No one is entitled to success or rewards because of being busy IRL with other things. You are too busy with work? Your reward is the money you made working. Too busy with family? Your reward is time spend with your family! Want rewards in game? You're going to have to put time and effort in to get something out. DDO has some pay for _ aspects to it, but no where near what many other "pay to win" games out there have. Despite some people who really want it to be, DDO is not a true pay to win game. It has aspects of one, yes (otto boxes and exp pots to fast track leveling), and many people find that alone quite gross, but it isn't like other games where you can "buy x to get to max level instantly", or "buy BiS items outright for real money" that appears in other games. Here, you are still expected to play to get the most out of it all.
I personally hope it never gets to be like that here. Furthermore, the exp pots and stones from boxes can be a double edged sword. I've seen it a few times where someone uses otto boxes and piking in groups where the others did all the gameplay to get all the past lives and reaper wings, so they could build what they wanted with all the bonuses... and they end up sucking as a player, not knowing what they were doing or even how to play their builds well. DDO has more to it, and more that is needed to perform well, than just that.
At the end of the day (and I know this is a long post, so I wonder how many people will actually read this part), I want to help Elminster and anyone else wanting to get the most out of the game. I want to help people be able to be less reliant on others and more capable of doing what they want when they want. If someone wants to learn how to shortman or solo raids, I will try to help. It's not for everybody, but even being willing to try, or get together some friends to do shortman runs, can and does make a huge difference. I will not force anyone to do content they do not want to do or do not enjoy, but I will push back on entitled attitudes or asking for the removal of things others enjoy and the diminishing of achievements.
Shortmanning is easier than soloing. It's also an accomplishment compared to always being in a full group. But it is also possible. All it takes is a little bit of effort and flexibility.
DDO raids are much easier and more forgiving than raids in other games, especially on the lower difficulties. But that doesn't mean all challenge or prestige is non-existent. That doesn't change the fact that - if someone is willing to put in the effort - many raids CAN be soloed. Not guaranteed, but can be. The main reason soloing was brought up was as a counter to the claim that "I am blocked from raiding because I can't find groups". That is simply factually not true, as those who have put in the time, effort, flexibility with builds, and personal skill, have been able to solo and shortman raids (completed raids without having a full group). This doesn't mean everyone can solo raids, but it does mean that the statement "you have to have a full party to do raids" is simply not true. Soloing is just the extreme opposite.
It's also the absolute nature of the claim that causes a lot of the pushback imo (well, that and the attitude coming with it).
It's one thing to say you don't raid because you don't like the concept of raids.
It's one thing to say you don't raid because you feel your character's power is not ready for it yet.
It's one thing to say you don't raid because you are not personally skilled enough or capable of fast reactions that are sometimes needed.
But those were not the claims or complaints being made. The OP's complaints were there were no one joining their groups and that they can't raid without others. Hence the suggestion of lowering the difficulty and shortmanning, or even learning to solo.
You know why I started to solo raids? I had some really negative experiences with other people being jerks, and decided it's not worth the annoyance of dealing with people like that. Rather than giving up on raiding, I pushed myself to be better until I could solo raids. It also helps that I enjoy challenges like that and figuring things out (how do I deal with these mechanics while solo, etc). It wasn't about not being able to group, it was not wanting to group at that time.
That was many years ago. Now I'm leader of a guild that raids 3 times a week with a focus on being new player friendly and teaching raid mechanics so everyone can learn, participate, and better themselves to be better contributors to success in non-guild groups, and eventually push raid difficulty as well (we're no where near the level of guilds on other servers, but we've built a community that is - I hope - non-toxic and friendly and able to work towards that level via encouragement rather than elitism).
However, the excuse of "I can't participate because people, therefor no one can, or should be able to even try" as the OP essentially said (by asking for raids to be removed from games), is a load of foul. It is not black and white as portrayed. There are ways around such obstacles. That is one of the things the talk about shortmanning and soloing was supposed to relay.
And yes, this takes effort. No one is entitled to success or rewards because of being busy IRL with other things. You are too busy with work? Your reward is the money you made working. Too busy with family? Your reward is time spend with your family! Want rewards in game? You're going to have to put time and effort in to get something out. DDO has some pay for _ aspects to it, but no where near what many other "pay to win" games out there have. Despite some people who really want it to be, DDO is not a true pay to win game. It has aspects of one, yes (otto boxes and exp pots to fast track leveling), and many people find that alone quite gross, but it isn't like other games where you can "buy x to get to max level instantly", or "buy BiS items outright for real money" that appears in other games. Here, you are still expected to play to get the most out of it all.
I personally hope it never gets to be like that here. Furthermore, the exp pots and stones from boxes can be a double edged sword. I've seen it a few times where someone uses otto boxes and piking in groups where the others did all the gameplay to get all the past lives and reaper wings, so they could build what they wanted with all the bonuses... and they end up sucking as a player, not knowing what they were doing or even how to play their builds well. DDO has more to it, and more that is needed to perform well, than just that.
At the end of the day (and I know this is a long post, so I wonder how many people will actually read this part), I want to help Elminster and anyone else wanting to get the most out of the game. I want to help people be able to be less reliant on others and more capable of doing what they want when they want. If someone wants to learn how to shortman or solo raids, I will try to help. It's not for everybody, but even being willing to try, or get together some friends to do shortman runs, can and does make a huge difference. I will not force anyone to do content they do not want to do or do not enjoy, but I will push back on entitled attitudes or asking for the removal of things others enjoy and the diminishing of achievements.