Swash Freezing bard - trying to bring the love back

[Eleazzar]

So I am alittle lost on how to build this. I saw some swash builds and tried to figure something out. I wanted to try and use swashing with a buckler for shield bashing along with freezing to stun mobs in hopes of using Crush Weakness. The build seems weak to me for some reason. Such as spell power metas not being used but this build seems feat starved so I threw in 2 fighter levels to help with the feats and give me shield bashing although not sure if that feat will overlap or not apply. I feel I am missing something from years ago when I first tried this.

I have not seen any freezing bard builds so I am not sure if this is even good anymore. I would like to use it for Epic PL's and to stay at cap for a while for raids and reaper points.

Anyway, below is my attempt, any assistance it welcome and I am sure needed.


Character name: Frozen bard
Classes: 18 Bard, 10 Epic, 2 Fighter, 2 Legendary
Race: Purple Dragon Knight Alignment: Neutral

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· · 0%
Str:· · ·8· · 8 · ·20 · · ·HP:· · · ·1650 · · ·AC:· ·136
Dex:· · 12· · 8 · ·24 · · ·PRR: · · · 110
Con:· · 16· · 8 · ·53 · · ·MRR: · · · ·24 · · ·+Healing Amp:· ·143
Int:· · 14· · 8 · ·33 · · ·Dodge: · 29/29 · · ·-Healing Amp:· · 30
Wis:· · ·8· · 8 · ·35 · · ·Fort:· · ·282% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · 40
Cha:· · 18· · 8 · ·64 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 25
DR: 0\-
Immunities: Magic Missiles, Weapon Durability Damage, Fear, Freedom of Movement, Death Effects, Charm, Poison, Petrification

Class and Feat Selection (Consolidated)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Fighter(1)· · · ·Standard: Single Weapon Fighting
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Purple Dragon Knight Bonus: Insightful Reflexes
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Fighter Bonus: Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·
2 · · Bard(1) · · · · ·

3 · · Fighter(2)· · · ·Standard: Precision
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Fighter Bonus: Improved Shield Bash


4 · · Bard(2) · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
· · · · · · · · · · ·

5 · · Bard(3) · · · · ·

6 · · Bard(4) · · · · ·Standard: Quicken Spell
· · · · · · · · · · ·

7 · · Bard(5) · · · · ·

8 · · Bard(6) · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up

9 · · Bard(7) · · · · ·Standard: Improved Single Weapon Fighting


10· · Bard(8) · · · ·

11· · Bard(9) · · · · ·

12· · Bard(10)· · · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up

13· · Bard(11)· · · · ·

14· · Bard(12)· · · · ·A

15· · Bard(13)· · · · ·Standard: Greater Single Weapon Fighting


16· · Bard(14)· · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up


17· · Bard(15)· · · ·

18· · Bard(16)· · · · ·Standard: Weapon Finesse


19· · Bard(17)· · · · ·

20· · Bard(18)· · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up

21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Inspire Excellence


22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting

23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·A

24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Spell Focus: Enchantment
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up


25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Doublestrike


26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·

27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Spell Focus: Evocation


28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Holy Strike
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up


29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·

30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of the Astral Plane


31· · Legendary(1)· · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Crush Weakness


32· · Legendary(2)· · ·Charisma: +1 Level up



Skills
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill Points· · ·20 10· 6 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 12 12 12 12 12 12
Skill Name· · · ·01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20· Total Buffed
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance · · · · · 2 ·1· ½ ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·20.5 · 46.5
Bluff · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 45.0
Concentration · · 2 ·1· ½ ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·20.5 · 59.5
Diplomacy · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 45.0
Disable Device· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 30.0
Haggle· · · · · ·1½ ·2· ½ ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·21.0 · 67.0
Heal· · · · · · · 2 ·½· ½ ·½· ½ ·½· ½ ·½· ½ ·½· ½ ·½· ½ ·½· ½ ·½· ½ ·½· ½ · · ·11.0 · 42.0
Hide· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 25.0
Intimidate· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 47.0
Jump· · · · · · · 4 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 46.0
Listen· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 32.0
Move Silently · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 25.0
Open Lock · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 25.0
Perform · · · · · 2 ·1· ½ ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·20.5 · 65.5
Repair· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 31.0
Search· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 31.0
Spell Craft · · · 2 ·1· ½ ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·20.5 · 52.5
Spot· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 33.0
Swim· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 23.0
Tumble· · · · · · ½ · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.5 · 25.5
Use Magic Device· 2 ·1· ½ ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·20.5 · 66.5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Available Points-12 ·1 -2 ·2· 2 ·2· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 4 ·4· 4 ·4· 4 ·5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Xgya]

If you're going to use a buckler, take the Shield Mastery feats.
Far more useful than the Shield Bash feat.
I don't see why you'd ever take Insightful Reflexes. Is the +4 Reflex somehow worth more than another feat?

 

[Eleazzar]

If you're going to use a buckler, take the Shield Mastery feats.
Far more useful than the Shield Bash feat.
I don't see why you'd ever take Insightful Reflexes. Is the +4 Reflex somehow worth more than another feat?

This is the rub. Where do I take those feats? Do I remove the Melee DPS? Are their shield feats auto granted for this in Swashing? Do
I add more fighter levels for more feats?

As far as ins reflexes, I took it because at level 1 thats was pretty much the best option and since he is not a tank, I figured my not using Int vs a lower dex for reflexes. I am up for suggestions.

 

[unbongwah]

It looks like you're trying to update the Icebreaker so starting from there as our guideline:

• Unless you really need the extra feat from fighter 2, splash cleric or Favored Soul for Divine Might. Or go for a deeper multiclass like bard 16 / fighter 3 / cleric 1 so you have access to more fighter Enhancements.
• I don't understand why you took Weapon Finesse on a CHA-based PDK bard. Aren't you going to use Cormyrian Knight Training for CHA to hit and damage with short swords?
• You should definitely have the Shield Mastery feats if you can, the big question is whether you take them while leveling heroics or grab Shield Mastery Specialty at level 31. Which depends on whether you're just running an Iconic life or you're planning to spend time at endgame with this toon.
• Holy Strike is a weak feat IMO, I only take it on my ranged toons who will also be using Shiradi. Harbinger of Chaos on a Chaotic Neutral/Good melee is better (+2% doublestrike +2 Imbue dice).

Update 61 just buffed Warchanter and Swashbuckler a bit. So now's as good a time as any to revisit this build.

Character name: PDK Freezechanter (U61)
Classes: 18 Bard, 10 Epic, 2 Legendary, 1 Cleric, 1 Fighter
Race: Purple Dragon Knight Alignment: Chaotic Neutral

· · ·Start Tome Final · · ·Incorp:· · ·0% · · ·Displacement:· · 0%
Str:· · ·8· · 0 · ·12 · · ·HP:· · · ·1158 · · ·AC:· · 20
Dex:· · 14· · 0 · ·18 · · ·PRR: · · · ·34
Con:· · 14· · 0 · ·19 · · ·MRR: · · · · 0 · · ·+Healing Amp:· · 30
Int:· · 12· · 0 · ·15 · · ·Dodge: · ·8/25 · · ·-Healing Amp:· · 10
Wis:· · ·8· · 0 · ·11 · · ·Fort:· · · 50% · · ·Repair Amp:· · · 10
Cha:· · 18· · 0 · ·30 · · ·SR:· · · · · 0 · · ·BAB: · · · · · · 25
DR: 0\-
Immunities: Fear, Crushing Despair, Waves of Fatigue, Waves of Exhaustion, Sleep, Fatigue, Most forms of Knockdown, Fear, Charisma Damage

Class and Feat Selection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Level Class · · · · · ·Feats
1 · · Fighter(1)· · · ·Standard: Shield Mastery
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Purple Dragon Knight Bonus: Precision
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Fighter Bonus: Single Weapon Fighting
2 · · Cleric(1) · · · ·Follower of Faith: Favored by Helm
3 · · Bard(1) · · · · ·Standard: Quicken Spell
4 · · Bard(2) · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
5 · · Bard(3) · · · · ·
6 · · Bard(4) · · · · ·Standard: Empower Healing Spell
7 · · Bard(5) · · · · ·
8 · · Bard(6) · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
9 · · Bard(7) · · · · ·Standard: Improved Single Weapon Fighting
10· · Bard(8) · · · · ·
11· · Bard(9) · · · · ·
12· · Bard(10)· · · · ·Standard: Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
13· · Bard(11)· · · · ·
14· · Bard(12)· · · · ·
15· · Bard(13)· · · · ·Standard: Improved Shield Mastery
16· · Bard(14)· · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
17· · Bard(15)· · · · ·
18· · Bard(16)· · · · ·Standard: Greater Single Weapon Fighting
19· · Bard(17)· · · · ·
20· · Bard(18)· · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
21· · Epic(1) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Inspire Excellence
22· · Epic(2) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
23· · Epic(3) · · · · ·
24· · Epic(4) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Overwhelming Critical
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
25· · Epic(5) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Crush Weakness
26· · Epic(6) · · · · ·
27· · Epic(7) · · · · ·Epic Feat: Greater Shield Mastery
28· · Epic(8) · · · · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Harbinger of Chaos
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Charisma: +1 Level up
29· · Epic(9) · · · · ·
30· · Epic(10)· · · · ·Epic Feat: Epic Damage Reduction
· · · · · · · · · · · ·Legendary: Scion of the Feywild
31· · Legendary(1)· · ·Epic Destiny Feat: Enhanced Elemental Dice
32· · Legendary(2)· · ·Charisma: +1 Level up

Granted Feats
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diehard
Uncanny Dodge
Magical Training
Bardic Inspiration
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skills
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill Points· · ·16 ·4· 8 ·8· 8 ·8· 8 ·8· 8 ·8· 8 ·8· 8 ·8· 8 ·8· 8 ·8· 8 ·8
Skill Name· · · ·01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20· Total Buffed
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Balance · · · · · 2 · · · ·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 7.0 · 27.0
Bluff · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 26.0
Concentration · · · · · · · · 5 ·4· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 43.0
Diplomacy · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 28.0
Disable Device· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 18.0
Haggle· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1 ·2· 2 ·2· 2 ·2· ·11.0 · 37.0
Heal· · · · · · · 1 ·4· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 39.0
Hide· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 20.0
Intimidate· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 26.0
Jump· · · · · · · 4 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 4.0 · 21.0
Listen· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 18.0
Move Silently · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 20.0
Open Lock · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 20.0
Perform · · · · · · · · · · · · ·1· 4 ·4· 3 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 51.0
Repair· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 18.0
Search· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 18.0
Spell Craft · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1 ·3· 3 ·3· 3 ·3· 2 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 41.0
Spot· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 0.0 · 16.0
Swim· · · · · · · 4 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 4.0 · 21.0
Tumble· · · · · · · · · 1 · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 1.0 · 21.0
Use Magic Device· 1 · · 5 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· 1 ·1· ·23.0 · 51.0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Available Points· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0· 0 ·0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enhancements: 80 APs
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Purple Dragon Knight - Points spent: 3
Core1 Versatility I: Damage Boost
Tier1 Cormyrean Knight Training
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warchanter - Points spent: 42
Core1 Skaldic Rage / Skaldic Constitution: Skaldic Constitution
Tier1 Enchant Weapon
Tier1 The Poetic Edda - 3 Ranks
Core2 Weapon Training
Tier2 Arcane Shield Chant - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Sprint - 1 Ranks
Core3 Song of Heroism
Tier3 The Frozen Fury - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Balad Melody: Ironskin - 3 Ranks
Tier3 High Spirits - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Ability I: +1 Charisma
Core4 Fighting Spirit
Tier4 Northwind - 3 Ranks
Tier4 Ballad Melody: Recklessness - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Spinning Ice - 3 Ranks
Tier5 Howl of the North
Tier5 Chant of Power - 3 Ranks
Core5 Victory Song
Tier5 Movement Booster: Expeditious Chant - 3 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Swashbuckler - Points spent: 16
Core1 Confidence
Tier1 Blow By Blow: Blow By Blow - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Tavern Shanties - 1 Ranks
Core2 Swashbuckling
Tier2 Fast Movement
Tier2 En Pointe - 3 Ranks
Core3 Uncanny Dodge
Tier3 Resonant Arms
Tier3 Swashbuckling Style: Skirmisher
Tier3 Elegant Footwork
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spellsinger - Points spent: 13
Core1 Spellsinger
Tier1 Sonic Blast: Sonic Blast - 3 Ranks
Tier1 Lingering Songs - 1 Ranks
Core2 Music of the Sewers
Tier2 Spell Like Ability: Suggestion - 2 Ranks
Tier2 Marigold Crown: Yellow Marigold Crown
Core3 Music of the Dead
Tier3 Spell Song Trance
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Warpriest - Points spent: 2
Core1 Smite Foe: Smite Foe (Melee)
Tier1 Divine Might - 1 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kensei - Points spent: 4
Core1 Kensei Focus: Kensei Focus: Light Blades
Tier1 Action Boost: Haste Boost - 3 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Epic Destinies: 40 APs + 13 permanent Destiny Points
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fatesinger - Points spent: 34
Core1 Fate Singer's Repertoire
Tier1 Epic Strike: The Sword Sings
Tier1 Harmonic Resonance
Tier2 Discord: Blade of Discord
Core2 Intoxicating Presence
Tier2 Mantle of Sound and Fury
Tier2 Grandeur
Core3 Glitter of Fame
Tier3 The Magic of Music: Enchantment - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Reign - 3 Ranks
Tier3 The Sonata to Serve - 3 Ranks
Tier3 A Little bit of Music
Core4 Hear my Voice Friend
Tier4 Majesty
Tier4 Metamagics Attunement: Extend
Tier4 Resonance of Fate: Martial Resonance
Tier5 Ballad of the ages
Tier5 Blade Song
Tier5 Turn the Tide
Tier5 Cut the Strings
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unyielding Sentinel - Points spent: 14
Core1 Unyielding
Tier1 Divine Energy Resistance
Tier1 Brace for Impact - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Mantle of the Sentinel
Core2 Ward Against Darkness
Tier2 Renewal
Core3 Stand Against the Tide
Tier3 Legendary Shield Mastery - 3 Ranks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legendary Dreadnought - Points spent: 13
Core1 Fearless
Tier1 Dire Attack: Dire Charge
Tier1 Push Through The Line - 3 Ranks
Tier2 Ghost Touch
Core2 Weaponmaster
Tier2 Extra Action Boosts - 3 Ranks
Tier3 Momentum Swing
Core3 Thick Skinned
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Build goals:

• Melee DPS from Swashbuckler crits, Fatesinger effects, and Resonant Arms Imbue (+11 dice from feats, Enhancements and EDs)
• Crowd-control from Warchanter freezes and Enchantment spells (disco balls etc.)
• Solid party support from bard songs and Warchanter buffs

Drawbacks:

• Swashbuckling short swords are only 15-20/x3 weapons apart from some named options (e.g., Cutthroat's Smallblade is 13-20/x3). Compared to bard 3 / barbarian 5 builds which have 15-20/x5 with handaxes, personal DPS is lacking.
• Squeezed in as many AoE attacks as I could, but still pales in comparison to a good 2H DPS build.
• Like most hybrids, neither its DPS nor its spellcasting are as good as they would be if you optimized for only one.

Basically, this build can solo fine, but it shines in groups where your CC abilities and bard buffs are force multipliers for the rest of your party's DPS. Bring along a half-orc barbarian buddy who can really go to town on all the mobs you freeze.

You could also build for Offhand Versatility (empty offhand) instead of Skirmisher (bucklers): pro is saving two feats and gaining +0.25x CHA bonus to damage; con is losing buckler defensive benefits and some doublestrike in high epics (+10% Dashing Scoundrel vs +16% Greater + Legendary Shield Mastery).

 

[Contessor]

It looks like you're trying to update the Icebreaker so starting from there as our guideline:

• Unless you really need the extra feat from fighter 2, splash cleric or Favored Soul for Divine Might. Or go for a deeper multiclass like bard 16 / fighter 3 / cleric 1 so you have access to more fighter Enhancements.
• I don't understand why you took Weapon Finesse on a CHA-based PDK bard. Aren't you going to use Cormyrian Knight Training for CHA to hit and damage with short swords?
• You should definitely have the Shield Mastery feats if you can, the big question is whether you take them while leveling heroics or grab Shield Mastery Specialty at level 31. Which depends on whether you're just running an Iconic life or you're planning to spend time at endgame with this toon.
• Holy Strike is a weak feat IMO, I only take it on my ranged toons who will also be using Shiradi. Harbinger of Chaos on a Chaotic Neutral/Good melee is better (+2% doublestrike +2 Imbue dice).

Update 61 just buffed Warchanter and Swashbuckler a bit. So now's as good a time as any to revisit this build.

Build goals:

• Melee DPS from Swashbuckler crits, Fatesinger effects, and Resonant Arms Imbue (+11 dice from feats, Enhancements and EDs)
• Crowd-control from Warchanter freezes and Enchantment spells (disco balls etc.)
• Solid party support from bard songs and Warchanter buffs

Drawbacks:

• Swashbuckling short swords are only 15-20/x3 weapons apart from some named options (e.g., Cutthroat's Smallblade is 13-20/x3). Compared to bard 3 / barbarian 5 builds which have 15-20/x5 with handaxes, personal DPS is lacking.
• Squeezed in as many AoE attacks as I could, but still pales in comparison to a good 2H DPS build.
• Like most hybrids, neither its DPS nor its spellcasting are as good as they would be if you optimized for only one.

Basically, this build can solo fine, but it shines in groups where your CC abilities and bard buffs are force multipliers for the rest of your party's DPS. Bring along a half-orc barbarian buddy who can really go to town on all the mobs you freeze.

You could also build for Offhand Versatility (empty offhand) instead of Skirmisher (bucklers): pro is saving two feats and gaining +0.25x CHA bonus to damage; con is losing buckler defensive benefits and some doublestrike in high epics (+10% Dashing Scoundrel vs +16% Greater + Legendary Shield Mastery).

Good suggestions.

Also you could throw pally in the mix as an option for imbue dmg.

Edit…if you do PDK, can’t do Sacred Defender without an LR+1 for imbue toggle. You could do 2 levels and take divine might although, which is inferior to 1 level of fighter and 1 level of cleric or FVS.

 

[unbongwah]

Also you could throw pally in the mix as an option for imbue dmg.

Not on a bard: alignment restrictions.

 

[Xgya]

It looks like you're trying to update the Icebreaker so starting from there as our guideline:

My favorite all-time Bard build, wholly support.

Someday I want to do a 2hswords Freeze Bard
Ever since they updated THF feats, I wanted to give that build idea a try, never gave it much thought yet, but I know some of the ideas would still have to come from the good ol Icebreaker, because it's a staple at this point.

 

[Contessor]

Played both. SWF hands down blows THF away on bard. Really does on almost any build.

 

[Eleazzar]

It looks like you're trying to update the Icebreaker so starting from there as our guideline:

• Unless you really need the extra feat from fighter 2, splash cleric or Favored Soul for Divine Might. Or go for a deeper multiclass like bard 16 / fighter 3 / cleric 1 so you have access to more fighter Enhancements.
• I don't understand why you took Weapon Finesse on a CHA-based PDK bard. Aren't you going to use Cormyrian Knight Training for CHA to hit and damage with short swords?
• You should definitely have the Shield Mastery feats if you can, the big question is whether you take them while leveling heroics or grab Shield Mastery Specialty at level 31. Which depends on whether you're just running an Iconic life or you're planning to spend time at endgame with this toon.
• Holy Strike is a weak feat IMO, I only take it on my ranged toons who will also be using Shiradi. Harbinger of Chaos on a Chaotic Neutral/Good melee is better (+2% doublestrike +2 Imbue dice).

Update 61 just buffed Warchanter and Swashbuckler a bit. So now's as good a time as any to revisit this build.

Build goals:

• Melee DPS from Swashbuckler crits, Fatesinger effects, and Resonant Arms Imbue (+11 dice from feats, Enhancements and EDs)
• Crowd-control from Warchanter freezes and Enchantment spells (disco balls etc.)
• Solid party support from bard songs and Warchanter buffs

Drawbacks:

• Swashbuckling short swords are only 15-20/x3 weapons apart from some named options (e.g., Cutthroat's Smallblade is 13-20/x3). Compared to bard 3 / barbarian 5 builds which have 15-20/x5 with handaxes, personal DPS is lacking.
• Squeezed in as many AoE attacks as I could, but still pales in comparison to a good 2H DPS build.
• Like most hybrids, neither its DPS nor its spellcasting are as good as they would be if you optimized for only one.

Basically, this build can solo fine, but it shines in groups where your CC abilities and bard buffs are force multipliers for the rest of your party's DPS. Bring along a half-orc barbarian buddy who can really go to town on all the mobs you freeze.

You could also build for Offhand Versatility (empty offhand) instead of Skirmisher (bucklers): pro is saving two feats and gaining +0.25x CHA bonus to damage; con is losing buckler defensive benefits and some doublestrike in high epics (+10% Dashing Scoundrel vs +16% Greater + Legendary Shield Mastery).

Thanks for the reply. Weapon Finess...ehhh....Just thinking Finessable weapons and the princess bride. lol. My mistake. That will be changed. I do wish to keep the buckler since farming Van richten cane and finally getting the epic version.

As far as the handaxes are concerned, I should just change the piercing to slashing and be ok yes? Or is there something else I should change to optimize handaxes?

 

[unbongwah]

As far as the handaxes are concerned, I should just change the piercing to slashing and be ok yes? Or is there something else I should change to optimize handaxes?

What makes handaxes good is combining Swashbuckling's crit range bonus with Kensei or Frenzied Berserker's crit multiplier bonus.

On a pure or almost-pure bard, there's not really any reason to favor handaxes over other swashbuckling weapons. A PDK bard uses short swords because of Cormyrian Knight Training:

You now use Charisma or Strength, whichever is higher, for attack and damage with shortswords, longswords, bastard swords, and greatswords.​

In addition, as long as your Charisma remains higher than your Strength and you are wielding one of the above weapons, you receive a bonus to the DCs of your Tactical Feats equal to 1/3 your Charisma modifier.​

That DC bonus will stack with Divine Might and applies to Warchanter's freeze attacks.

 

[Eleazzar]

It looks like you're trying to update the Icebreaker so starting from there as our guideline:

• Unless you really need the extra feat from fighter 2, splash cleric or Favored Soul for Divine Might. Or go for a deeper multiclass like bard 16 / fighter 3 / cleric 1 so you have access to more fighter Enhancements.
• I don't understand why you took Weapon Finesse on a CHA-based PDK bard. Aren't you going to use Cormyrian Knight Training for CHA to hit and damage with short swords?
• You should definitely have the Shield Mastery feats if you can, the big question is whether you take them while leveling heroics or grab Shield Mastery Specialty at level 31. Which depends on whether you're just running an Iconic life or you're planning to spend time at endgame with this toon.
• Holy Strike is a weak feat IMO, I only take it on my ranged toons who will also be using Shiradi. Harbinger of Chaos on a Chaotic Neutral/Good melee is better (+2% doublestrike +2 Imbue dice).

Update 61 just buffed Warchanter and Swashbuckler a bit. So now's as good a time as any to revisit this build.

Build goals:

• Melee DPS from Swashbuckler crits, Fatesinger effects, and Resonant Arms Imbue (+11 dice from feats, Enhancements and EDs)
• Crowd-control from Warchanter freezes and Enchantment spells (disco balls etc.)
• Solid party support from bard songs and Warchanter buffs

Drawbacks:

• Swashbuckling short swords are only 15-20/x3 weapons apart from some named options (e.g., Cutthroat's Smallblade is 13-20/x3). Compared to bard 3 / barbarian 5 builds which have 15-20/x5 with handaxes, personal DPS is lacking.
• Squeezed in as many AoE attacks as I could, but still pales in comparison to a good 2H DPS build.
• Like most hybrids, neither its DPS nor its spellcasting are as good as they would be if you optimized for only one.

Basically, this build can solo fine, but it shines in groups where your CC abilities and bard buffs are force multipliers for the rest of your party's DPS. Bring along a half-orc barbarian buddy who can really go to town on all the mobs you freeze.

You could also build for Offhand Versatility (empty offhand) instead of Skirmisher (bucklers): pro is saving two feats and gaining +0.25x CHA bonus to damage; con is losing buckler defensive benefits and some doublestrike in high epics (+10% Dashing Scoundrel vs +16% Greater + Legendary Shield Mastery).

Thank you for the build btw and the insights. So I am not really interested in the spell casting if I can hit the freezing and good DPS. What can I do to raise the DPS and hit my freezing stuns?

 

[unbongwah]

What can I do to raise the DPS and hit my freezing stuns?

You're kinda asking two separate questions:

• How do you boost the DCs on Warchanter freezes? By staying close to pure bard because the DC is "14 + <bard level> + <CHA/DEX/STR modifier> + Stunning bonuses." This includes a Battle Trance and (if CHA-based) Cormyrian Knight Training. Also the duration of Frozen Fury and Spinning Ice is based on your bard level. A DEX build can stick with pure bard and grab No Step Missed for Battle Trance; or a CHA bard like the one I posted splashes cleric or Favored Soul for Divine Might and also benefits from CKT if they use short swords.
• How do you boost the melee DPS of a bard? Usually by combining with other classes with bigger DPS bonuses than bard; and/or using Vistani Knife Fighter. The rogue 12 / barbarian 5 / bard 3 build linked earlier has much better DPS than a pure bard, though it is only nominally a Swashbuckler.

So you can see there's an inherent tension between your two goals. And I don't know where the threshold for "good enough" DCs is these days.

 

[Eleazzar]

You're kinda asking two separate questions:

• How do you boost the DCs on Warchanter freezes? By staying close to pure bard because the DC is "14 + <bard level> + <CHA/DEX/STR modifier> + Stunning bonuses." This includes a Battle Trance and (if CHA-based) Cormyrian Knight Training. Also the duration of Frozen Fury and Spinning Ice is based on your bard level. A DEX build can stick with pure bard and grab No Step Missed for Battle Trance; or a CHA bard like the one I posted splashes cleric or Favored Soul for Divine Might and also benefits from CKT if they use short swords.
• How do you boost the melee DPS of a bard? Usually by combining with other classes with bigger DPS bonuses than bard; and/or using Vistani Knife Fighter. The rogue 12 / barbarian 5 / bard 3 build linked earlier has much better DPS than a pure bard, though it is only nominally a Swashbuckler.

So you can see there's an inherent tension between your two goals. And I don't know where the threshold for "good enough" DCs is these days.

OK that makes sense., So its basically DPS vs Freezing that I need to make a decisions on. I noticed that build uses 5 barb. I am wondering if a 14 Bard/ 5 barb/1 fvs would work out to give some more DPS while still able to freeze and maybe even gain some tankiness.

 

[unbongwah]

I am wondering if a 14 Bard/ 5 barb/1 fvs would work out to give some more DPS while still able to freeze and maybe even gain some tankiness.

Taking tier-5 Frenzied Berserker for +2 crit multiplier locks you out of T5 Warchanter, which means no Spinning Ice. Using fighter 6 instead gets you +1 crit multiplier for 11 APs (Kensei) while still letting you take Spinning Ice. You've also got the option of switching to THF with greatswords; SOS becomes 15-20/x4 with Strike with No Thought + Improved Critical.

So again it's a tradeoff between personal DPS and making the most of Warchanter special abilities.

I've also been trying to come up with a DEX-based Shadarkai Swashbuckler with tier-5 Warchanter using racial chain attacks - let's say bard 18 / rogue 2 - but the sticking point is AP shortages:

• 36 APs WC for Spinning Ice + Howl of the North + level 18 core
• 17 APs SDK for Greater Chain Attack
• 14 APs Swashbuckler
• 13 APs Horizon Walker for No Step Missed (DEX Battle Trance)
• 8 APs Acrobat or Vistani Knife Fighter for Haste Boost

That's 88 APs to have everything I want. So obviously something has to give if I want to do it without a bunch of extra racial APs I don't have.

 

[Thulsadoom]

This is the rub. Where do I take those feats? Do I remove the Melee DPS? Are their shield feats auto granted for this in Swashing? Do
I add more fighter levels for more feats?

As far as ins reflexes, I took it because at level 1 thats was pretty much the best option and since he is not a tank, I figured my not using Int vs a lower dex for reflexes. I am up for suggestions.

Sheild bashing is good for DPS, if you want to use a sheild and not run around with a laughable one sword swinging around looking ummmm really weird.

 

[Eleazzar]

Taking tier-5 Frenzied Berserker for +2 crit multiplier locks you out of T5 Warchanter, which means no Spinning Ice. Using fighter 6 instead gets you +1 crit multiplier for 11 APs (Kensei) while still letting you take Spinning Ice. You've also got the option of switching to THF with greatswords; SOS becomes 15-20/x4 with Strike with No Thought + Improved Critical.

So again it's a tradeoff between personal DPS and making the most of Warchanter special abilities.

I've also been trying to come up with a DEX-based Shadarkai Swashbuckler with tier-5 Warchanter using racial chain attacks - let's say bard 18 / rogue 2 - but the sticking point is AP shortages:

• 36 APs WC for Spinning Ice + Howl of the North + level 18 core
• 17 APs SDK for Greater Chain Attack
• 14 APs Swashbuckler
• 13 APs Horizon Walker for No Step Missed (DEX Battle Trance)
• 8 APs Acrobat or Vistani Knife Fighter for Haste Boost

That's 88 APs to have everything I want. So obviously something has to give if I want to do it without a bunch of extra racial APs I don't have.

Ahh I see. Racials got you!

 

[Eleazzar]

Sheild bashing is good for DPS, if you want to use a sheild and not run around with a laughable one sword swinging around looking ummmm really weird.

yeah, I want shields for extra shield bashing but I also know shields use Str to hit and that is my dump stat. So not sure yet.

 

[unbongwah]

yeah, I want shields for extra shield bashing but I also know shields use Str to hit and that is my dump stat.

FYI there's a few bucklers with inherent DEX to hit and damage (e.g., Van Richten's Cane), so one more advantage to DEX Swashbuckler.

Feydark Illusionist's Familiar's Flourish doesn't apply to shield-bashing. So AFAIK the only way to get CHA to hit and damage with bucklers is combining sorcerer Eldritch Knight's Eldritch Accuracy with Swashbuckler's Smooth Flourishes. Pre-Feywild, I ran bard 3 / sorcerer <??> for a while just to prove it worked.

 

[Eleazzar]

FYI there's a few bucklers with inherent DEX to hit and damage (e.g., Van Richten's Cane), so one more advantage to DEX Swashbuckler.

Feydark Illusionist's Familiar's Flourish doesn't apply to shield-bashing. So AFAIK the only way to get CHA to hit and damage with bucklers is combining sorcerer Eldritch Knight's Eldritch Accuracy with Swashbuckler's Smooth Flourishes. Pre-Feywild, I ran bard 3 / sorcerer <??> for a while just to prove it worked.

That buckler is exactly what I have for Heroics and epics. hmmm....Would you mind posting your Dex Swash build so I can study it?

 

[unbongwah]

Would you mind posting your Dex Swash build so I can study it?

I don't have an "official" build yet but I'm thinking it would be something like this:

DEX Chanter Skirmisher
Bard 20
Chaotic Neutral Human


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . 4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 18. . . .18 . . . 8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . .16 . . .12: DEX
Intelligence. . .8. . . . 8 . . .16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8 . . .20: DEX
Charisma. . . . 14. . . .14 . . .24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .32: DEX

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Perform . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 2. . .2 . . 3. 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Hide. . . . . . . . . . . . 1. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .2 . . 2. . .13
Heal. . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .11
Balance . 4. 1. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .7
Tumble. . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .24. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6


Feats

.1. . . . : Single Weapon Fighting
.1 Human. : Improved Shield Bash
.3. . . . : Weapon Finesse
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
15. . . . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Quicken Spell
21 Epic . : Inspire Excellence
22 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
25 Destiny: Crush Weakness OR Doublestrike
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic . : Epic Reflexes
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea
31 Destiny: Shield Mastery Specialty


Enhancements (Spent: 80 +0r +0u / Max: 80 +0r +0u AP)

Warchanter (41 AP)

• Skaldic: Constitution, Weapon Training, Song of Heroism, Fighting Spirit, Victory Song, Skaldic Scream
  1. Poetic Edda II, Enchant Weapon
  2. Ballad Melody: Arcane Shield III, Iced Edges, Sprint Boost I
  3. Ironskin Chant III, Obstinance III, High Spirits III, Frozen Fury III
  4. Ballad Melody: Recklessness III, Northwind III
  5. Chant of Power III, Howl of the North, Spinning Ice III

Swashbuckler (16 AP)

• Confidence, Swashbuckling, Uncanny Dodge
  1. Blow By Blow: Melee III, Tavern Shanties I
  2. Fast Movement, Action Boost: Double Strike Boost I
  3. Swashbuckling Style: Skirmisher, Resonant Arms I, Different Tack: Swift Strikes

Horizon Walker (14 AP)

• Mark Target, Improved Marking, Greater Marking
  1. Eye for Accuracy III, Planar Dodge I
  2. Protection from Evil and Good III, Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
  3. No Step Missed III

Vistani Knife Fighter (8 AP)

• Knife Expertise
  1. Mist Stalker, Rapid Slash
  2. Haste Boost III

Human (1 AP)

• Human Versatility: Damage Boost

Destinies (Spent: 62 (48 +14pdp) / Max: 62 (48 +14pdp) AP)

Fatesinger (33 AP)

• Fatesinger's Repertoire, Intoxicating Presence, Glitter of Fame, Hear My Voice Friend
  1. Epic Strike: The Sword Sings, Harmonic Resonance
  2. Mantle of Sound and Fury, Discord: Blade of Discord
  3. Reign III, The Sonata to Serve III, Masquerade III
  4. Great Ballads of War III, Majesty, Resonance of Fate: Martial Resonance, Metamagics Attunement: Extend
  5. Ballad of the Ages, Blade Song, Turn the Tide

Shadowdancer (15 AP)

• Shadow Training, Step Through Shadow, The Darkest Luck
  1. Stealthy III, Cover of Darkness I
  2. Dance in the Dark II, Epic Strike: Shadowstrike (melee)
  3. Shadowcaster: Shadowstriker, Epic Strike Upgrades: Dark Imbuement

Unyielding Sentinel (14 AP)

• Unyielding, Ward Against Darkness, Stand Against the Tide
  1. Divine Energy Resistance, Brace for Impact II
  2. Renewal, Shield Prowess III
  3. Legendary Shield Mastery III

Non-humans lose a feat: either Improved Shield Bash or Quicken Spell.

Sickle variant: take Swords to Plowshares at level 6, Improved Critical Slashing instead of Piercing, and Precision at level 18. Normal sickles will become 14-20/x3 weapons; a few named ones will become 12-20/x3 (e.g., Widowblight, Tharkuul's Bane, Devourer's Reaping). Also if you decide to run in Divine Crusader, sickles qualify for Favored weapon bonuses with Axiom of Faith.