Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
whoaa.. yeah that's insane. Just do 2 epic lives max then TR back to 1.
That was a rippoff
- Thread starter Konsumer
- Start date
Fleming
Well-known member
Which is fine unless you have all the Heroic, Iconic and Racials you want...
That points to user error though.
You should run 1 racial + 1 or 2 epics together for full first time bonusses, and 1 iconic + 1 heroic together.
If you ran a bunch of racial lives without an epic live .. well, thats what I would call user error
Fleming
Well-known member
That points to user error though.
You should run 1 racial + 1 or 2 epics together for full first time bonusses, and 1 iconic + 1 heroic together.
If you ran a bunch of racial lives without an epic live .. well, thats what I would call user error
Well now you are assuming someone wants a whole bunch of Heroic, Iconic and Racial lives. You really don't need all your toons to be completionists.
Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
it should never come to this; your epics should always been complete (you get the most power bang for your time from epic lives anyway) and then class completionist (low hanging fruit) and then racials (you actually get the most power from racials but it takes a crapload of TR's).
rabidfox
The People's Champion
People play how they want to play; it's a game about fun. Some folks do 2 or more epic past lives per go, some TR the second they hit 20, others knock out iconics earlier alongside classes, others just make alts, there's no standard nor correct method for fun.
Fair enough. If you want very few heroic/racial/archtype/iconic lives - but want all epic lives - you have a problem. But thats a problem of your own choice as far as I can see.
Fleming
Well-known member
That points to user error though.
You should run 1 racial + 1 or 2 epics together for full first time bonusses, and 1 iconic + 1 heroic together.
If you ran a bunch of racial lives without an epic live .. well, thats what I would call user error
I am not even saying anyone is playing right or wrong, you guys are the ones saying how the game should be played...
I wouldn't use an Epic Otto's either, but I was just saying it might not seem like a slog if you are a one and done, or two and done. But not everyone plays the same.
Aelonwy
Well-known member
To support rabidfox here, to advocate as if you have to TR at all, let alone must TR in some specific order or strategy is to reinforce those players that say its no longer D&D Online but Spreadsheets & Statistics Online. Some of us don't seem to be playing for fun anymore, some seem to play as if they're hostages of a system they're trying to escape as swiftly as possible, will even pay to escape faster.
Don't mind me just idle thoughts.
Mordenkainen
Please SSG, no more nerfs. Thank you!
That's exactly why many of us play.To support rabidfox here, to advocate as if you have to TR at all, let alone must TR in some specific order or strategy is to reinforce those players that say its no longer D&D Online but Spreadsheets & Statistics Online. Some of us don't seem to be playing for fun anymore, some seem to play as if they're hostages of a system they're trying to escape as swiftly as possible, will even pay to escape faster.
We don't call it Stockholm syndrome as a meme because it literally is that.
The fun for the majority of the people is ever increasing numbers, to be first on the kill count, to make a "OP character".
Is it healthy? Probably not, but I bet it accounts for 90% of SSG's revenue.
Konsumer
Well-known member
I just got completionist this life and wanted a boost to getting to cap so i could enjoy the fruits of my labor on my preferred build. After months of TRing past lives on classes I didn't want to play I was tired of it.
Konsumer
Well-known member
I did not know there was an "improved" epic ottos box.
Otto boxes would be far more palatable if they at least gave you more value for your money like an entire past life, or two (or three). At least that is something that doesn't go poof as soon as you TR. Theoretically. Don't like to level bards (what is wrong with you?) but still want their PL bonus for whatever reason? Buy an Otto and now you don't have to. A number of levels you can count on one hand for 40 - 50 bucks is a BS product.
The way I have done my lives is I level as a rogue, and had 1 maybe 2 free +20 hearts, then I bought 2 +20 hearts and used them and then used the free +5 hearts, I'm on my last class life now pdk 1/14 fighter rogue, I'll take the last 5 levels as cleric and then lr5 out the rogue levels to get the cleric past life, its a workaround, I never understood why you couldn't level up whatever you wanted and just choose the power up, and don't say because of immersion as playing a cleric or whatever to cap to reincarnate back to rogue isn't immersive whatsoever
Griglok (Karatemack)
Leader- The Casual Obsession (Khyber)
true story... i have 2 heroic ottos boxes in the bank that i purchased at some point last year. I'm currently running dragonlord and playing from 1-32. Why don't I just skip to 20? Especially with the VIP XP bonus which puts you 100K short of 20?
I get a better feel for a class playing it from the ground up. Because you get the abilities over time, you end up experimenting more with abilities that you might not otherwise think are worth the time/effort at cap. Since there's little chance of failure with the group I'm in, I can take more risks without causing any harm to the group vs when we get to cap and are running R10 quests/raids.
Also, having played other classes from 1-32- this gives me a better baseline on how the class/build is performing comparatively. Once I've gotten the build to cap and am ready to give feedback, I'll have good idea for it's capabilities at every level of gameplay, not just in R10s at cap.
It turns out... there's not actually any substitution for playing the game. The only real reason for Ottos boxes IMO is to either circumvent playing a class/race/build or to save time such as when you have to rush back to cap because someone asked you to change roles in an R10 raid push for the guild at the last second and you don't want to delay the group by leveling it up. Not that that ever happens.
I get a better feel for a class playing it from the ground up. Because you get the abilities over time, you end up experimenting more with abilities that you might not otherwise think are worth the time/effort at cap. Since there's little chance of failure with the group I'm in, I can take more risks without causing any harm to the group vs when we get to cap and are running R10 quests/raids.
Also, having played other classes from 1-32- this gives me a better baseline on how the class/build is performing comparatively. Once I've gotten the build to cap and am ready to give feedback, I'll have good idea for it's capabilities at every level of gameplay, not just in R10s at cap.
It turns out... there's not actually any substitution for playing the game. The only real reason for Ottos boxes IMO is to either circumvent playing a class/race/build or to save time such as when you have to rush back to cap because someone asked you to change roles in an R10 raid push for the guild at the last second and you don't want to delay the group by leveling it up. Not that that ever happens.
NightHiker
Well-known member
Ok, so it seems we were able to at least reach some consensus, despite us "SSG shills" ( ). That is good.
Summarizing:
Otto's Boxes are not a "rip off", but do not offer the best value for their price. Sure, I can get behind that. "Value" is highly subjective, but I'd never be against any product in the store offering a better value to the costumers.
Otto's Boxes could do with a revamp and offer levels instead of xp - I can also get behind that. It would sure minimize room for error and confusion. I have myself missed a few xp points here and there by forgetting to drink this pot or get that buff. Not sure it's something they can implement straight up, though, as they may not have the tech to give straigth up levels and need to use xp instead - which then would demand they just give enough xp to get people to reach the cap even without any modifiers. Not sure about the financial impact for SSG, but of course I'd be all for that as well.
There's also a lot of talk about how the game keeps getting easier because of power creep, but very little attention is paid to the fact that content will always get easier as time goes by and people get to know it well and how to play it to optimize their strengths. As I said on another thread, I have not replace my gear for almost 2 years, but I still keep increasing the difficulty I run, because I learned to play better and have improved my build.
Which leads me to: I also see this thing about Otto's Boxes being "P2W" being flaunted a lot, and it's something I can't get behind. The reason is pretty simple: in DDO, no matter how many past lives you have, the biggest differential is and likely will always be skill and knowledge of the game's systems and content.
A new player can empty their bank account and buy Otto's Boxes to get all past lives the game has to offer, and they will still be pretty bad compared to a first lifer ran by an experienced player. Otto boxes don't teach how to build your character, nor how to navigate the content best. Sure, all things being equal, past lives give you an advantage, but that only really comes into play very late into the endgame - which is why I don't think Ottos are "P2W" - the same is true about pretty much everything you can buy from the store.
There are some action RPG titles where having the best gear and keep button smashing will get you thru any content, in wich you can literally "P2W". I don't think DDO is one of those games. With DDO, to play is the only way to really get to "win" - which, ironically enough, is the one thing you don't do when you use an Otto's Box.
Cheers,
NH
). That is good.Summarizing:
Otto's Boxes are not a "rip off", but do not offer the best value for their price. Sure, I can get behind that. "Value" is highly subjective, but I'd never be against any product in the store offering a better value to the costumers.
Otto's Boxes could do with a revamp and offer levels instead of xp - I can also get behind that. It would sure minimize room for error and confusion. I have myself missed a few xp points here and there by forgetting to drink this pot or get that buff. Not sure it's something they can implement straight up, though, as they may not have the tech to give straigth up levels and need to use xp instead - which then would demand they just give enough xp to get people to reach the cap even without any modifiers. Not sure about the financial impact for SSG, but of course I'd be all for that as well.
There's also a lot of talk about how the game keeps getting easier because of power creep, but very little attention is paid to the fact that content will always get easier as time goes by and people get to know it well and how to play it to optimize their strengths. As I said on another thread, I have not replace my gear for almost 2 years, but I still keep increasing the difficulty I run, because I learned to play better and have improved my build.
Which leads me to: I also see this thing about Otto's Boxes being "P2W" being flaunted a lot, and it's something I can't get behind. The reason is pretty simple: in DDO, no matter how many past lives you have, the biggest differential is and likely will always be skill and knowledge of the game's systems and content.
A new player can empty their bank account and buy Otto's Boxes to get all past lives the game has to offer, and they will still be pretty bad compared to a first lifer ran by an experienced player. Otto boxes don't teach how to build your character, nor how to navigate the content best. Sure, all things being equal, past lives give you an advantage, but that only really comes into play very late into the endgame - which is why I don't think Ottos are "P2W" - the same is true about pretty much everything you can buy from the store.
There are some action RPG titles where having the best gear and keep button smashing will get you thru any content, in wich you can literally "P2W". I don't think DDO is one of those games. With DDO, to play is the only way to really get to "win" - which, ironically enough, is the one thing you don't do when you use an Otto's Box.
Cheers,
NH
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Weaponalpha
Well-known member
Opinion: Otto's Boxes are too expensive, p2w, unnecessary, should be banned...
Fact: No one has to buy one.
Fact: No one has to buy one.
