NightHiker
Well-known member
Ok, I stand corrected. That is the ONE thing you can buy on the store if you want to "P2W"....I can p2w a ton of winning for what 1 otto's box costs. So much winning!
Cheers,
NH
That was a rippoff
- Thread starter Konsumer
- Start date
Cheers,
NH
*Blink* Is that real? Does... does it actually do something? I almost want to buy it to find out.I can p2w a ton of winning for what 1 otto's box costs. So much winning!
Griglok (Karatemack)
Leader- The Casual Obsession (Khyber)
This. Lives <> Winning.
You can have all the lives and still be on a bad build, make poor gear choices, position wrong, mismanage aggro, fail to heal the party, not be a team player, run head-first into traps, etc., etc., etc.
Lives unlock additional build choices for high reaper endgame content. That's it.
If you min/max... PLs aren't required for R10 questing at 32. PLs aren't required for R10 raiding at 32. Having PLs doens't make you invincible. Having PLs doesn't unlock soloing content.
Owlbear
Well-known member
I really don't get why DDO always over complicates this kind of stuff... They would sell a lot more Otto's Boxes if someone didn't have to do 30 minutes of research on wikipedia and do XP calculations with added XP pots and items... People are paying premium prices for these. Just let them get to 20 or 30. I don't even care if it's first life or not. If people want to boost a life with an Otto's box get their cash! These items will sell better if people understand them right away. Get rid of the inconsistenties.
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Weaponalpha
Well-known member
Seems pretty straight forward,
Heroic box- 2mil xp
Epic box- 2mil xp
Improved epic box- 4mil xp
No where does it say anything about what level will it get you to since this depends entirely on the toons current level, what life they are on, any tomes of learning, ship buff, voice of master, xp pot... If they were to sell a box that got you to levels 20 or 30 or 32 they would cost more since they would potentially grant more xp. As far as having to do research to understand how to maximize xp you will need to learn that somehow anyway to improve how effeciently you level. Again though, if someone feels they are not worth it don't buy them. DDO prices them as they see fit since they are complete luxury items.
Umm, how many players know exactly how much XP it takes to get from 1 to 20 on life one, from 1 to 20 on life two, and from 1 to 20 on life 3+ , and from 20 to 30 off the top of their heads? I've been playing for 13+ years and I don't happen to know. No-one cares about the XP they grant per se, the only thing players care about is how many levels they translate into.
So yes, looking stuff up on the wiki and doing calculations, just like the guy you are responding to said.
The very first xp stones (January 2012) did have a fixed level. They took you from level 8 to level 16 (or from anyway between 8 and 15 to 16). If SSG had made the xp stones fixed level it would likely take you to level 16, not to level 20.
The reason you can get more is that it takes an effort (and further payment) - you need VIP, you need a 50% xp pot and you need voice and max ship. If the xp stone gave the full potential without such an effort - then the full potential would very likely be less.
Also, I am pretty certain that it is very deliberate that the xp stone does not take you full from 1 to 20 even when there is a VIP xp bonus running, because SSG wants you to actually play the character a little (the least have been 100k xp during a 15% vip bonus weekend). Note, that this promotes VIP for those that want to use boxes - which a straight 1-20 would not.
Further, the xp stone mentions in its text that you further its xp using xp potions and other means. You are being directed towards doing so, which certainly argues against it being a rip off.
Finally, I doubt many (If any) new players decide to use a heroic xp stone on their second or third life (if some do on their first, it will take them to level 20). If someone does use one that fast I would hope they either have so much money that they just done case, or that it is based on advice from someone with lots of game experience. If someone does use an xp stone on their 4th or later life they definited should have learned that 3.8 mill is the capstone by then.
You can argue that the Ottos Box is too expensive or does not offer enough value for its cost - I am inclined to agree, in particular for the epic boxes that I would never, ever buy. But trying to argue that the mechanics are not clear or have a sound reasoning behind them is just silly.
Why does everyone that says ottos boxes are not P2W always include these caveats in there argument, a new player that boxes is still a newb, or if they have a bad build, etc they will still be behind an experience player on a first life?
Why assume this? On what planet does a new player who has never played the game walk in and put 2k or whatever it is on the table and say I want the most powerful character right now? No one does this, no one.
Let's take the work Win out, because its a PVE game, we all win anyway, let's say Power instead, P4P, Pay for Power.
Why assume this? On what planet does a new player who has never played the game walk in and put 2k or whatever it is on the table and say I want the most powerful character right now? No one does this, no one.
Let's take the work Win out, because its a PVE game, we all win anyway, let's say Power instead, P4P, Pay for Power.
I never understood the caveats and counterarguments for p2w. It's semantics - p2w is used generally to imply that players who pay have easier access to power and success than those who do not - even in some of the worst p2w games I ever played like Revelation Online there were a few examples of f2p players competing to an extent with whales, but those people lived and breathed the game. Sure, you can be bad and inexperienced and squander your paid gains in practice, doesn't mean it isn't p2w in essence, that's moving the argument. Those who are both good and swipe like mad men are vastly stronger than those who are simply good, when starting on an even ground.
But maybe I'm oldschool if I consider paying to have an easier time at winning whatever goals the game sets for you is p2w. They're still p2w mechanics. And DDO has a lot of them. This is the only gaming community where I've been that actually fights this argument, some stockholm syndrome going on, but then again I generally avoid p2w games and DDO is the first one where I've stuck around.
And no, I don't think p2w is as much of a big deal in a PVE game as it is obnoxious and awful in a PVP game. It's still p2w. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does make competitive events in PvE games harder and it drives away people competitive by nature, because finding actually even ground is harder - there are plenty of PvE games where we still have push events, competitions, monetized gauntlets and whatnot. DDO is hard to do that in because it is simply that hard to actually find even ground to compete on, and that's ignoring the plethora of let's say creative use of game mechanics that DDO has in play.
That being said, SSG is not gonna stop minmaxing their gains and causing buyers regret on the players' side any time soon. They make money off it and you can chalk it up to buyers error in the end, even if it may be deliberately taking advantage of a lapse in judgement on the customers' side and attempting to do so shamelessly. DDO is a game that has a lot of good going for it but the shop and monetization are some of the less glamorous and commendable things about it.
But maybe I'm oldschool if I consider paying to have an easier time at winning whatever goals the game sets for you is p2w. They're still p2w mechanics. And DDO has a lot of them. This is the only gaming community where I've been that actually fights this argument, some stockholm syndrome going on, but then again I generally avoid p2w games and DDO is the first one where I've stuck around.
And no, I don't think p2w is as much of a big deal in a PVE game as it is obnoxious and awful in a PVP game. It's still p2w. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does make competitive events in PvE games harder and it drives away people competitive by nature, because finding actually even ground is harder - there are plenty of PvE games where we still have push events, competitions, monetized gauntlets and whatnot. DDO is hard to do that in because it is simply that hard to actually find even ground to compete on, and that's ignoring the plethora of let's say creative use of game mechanics that DDO has in play.
That being said, SSG is not gonna stop minmaxing their gains and causing buyers regret on the players' side any time soon. They make money off it and you can chalk it up to buyers error in the end, even if it may be deliberately taking advantage of a lapse in judgement on the customers' side and attempting to do so shamelessly. DDO is a game that has a lot of good going for it but the shop and monetization are some of the less glamorous and commendable things about it.
