Too much "balancing", I've have enough

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DDO Gaming

Well-known member
Anyway, I don't think the problem is so much that they've 'homogenized everything'. If that is the goal, then I can only call it a spectacular failure as there are CLEARLY still some builds that are vastly stronger than others.
quod erat demonstrandum :)

BTW this is also the main difference between reaper-level gamers and non-reaper gamers. Reaper-level gamers have a strong idea of how to put together an effective build (ie they have developed "insider knowledge")
 
I really Do see this post as a .... you made the game too easy now....

I believe I face this same thought years ago when I was playing Everquest... and realized how much easier it was for new players to grind to cap and get almost as good as armor as I had/have.

Wouldn't you rather have new players in DDO be able to contribute a bit better in quests ? or Do you want new players to suffer like you did until they get the hard knocks like you did.... Personally... I would rather see new players come to the game and enjoy it... Not Stressed about having the best gear or any reaper points. Their are still niche(s).... but it's not as vast as it used to be... A new player wont' have the experience in the dungeons/reaper points/mechanics like a veteran player would. Balancing Classes give new players not knowing what their doing a better chance at surviving.

Your post was worthless and is selfish.
--This might be a little hard statement... but that's how I feel about this post right now

Thanks for playing and support the game.
 

Shear-buckler

Well-known member
Lots of hyperbole and overreactions here....

The recent changes were nearly all minor buffs to underutilized abilities. The only meaningful nerf was to EK and AA, and if a ~10% overall dps loss with no other change to functionality "breaks" your build, then it was a borderline garbage build to begin with... and I say this as a current EK player.

What I believe this stems from is a lack of actual challenge/difficulty in the game. Everything feels "streamlined" if you are stuck on the grind wheel because max dps and speed is all that matters. If we had a difficulty setting (and incentive to play it) that players couldn't just faceroll, then the nuances of different builds would become more relevant.

It's far more than 10% dps loss for builds that focus on imbues. Combined with the buff to the non-imbue damage is does end up breaking builds and keeps the non-EK spellpower imbue builds irrelevant.
 

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
Wouldn't you rather have new players in DDO be able to contribute a bit better in quests ?
DDO WAS NEVER CONCEIVED AS A SOLO GAMING EXPERIENCE (sorry for the caps but this point needs emphasizing).

Once you play enough you soon realize this is a teamgame and you really need to bring family/friends together and play quests as a team. Guilds are even more geared toward team gaming.

Agreed there exists some insane builds that can waltz through legendary quests @R10 BUT when such gamers take control of forums they create the impression DDO is supposed to be ONLY for God-awesome builds and nobody else is invited to the party
 
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DDO WAS NEVER CONCEIVED AS A SOLO GAMING EXPERIENCE (sorry for the caps but this point needs emphasizing).

Once you play enough you soon realize this is a teamgame and you really need to bring family/friends together and play quests as a team. Guilds are even more geared toward team gaming.

Agreed there exists some insane builds that can waltz through legendary quests @R10 BUT when such gamers take control of forums they create the impression DDO is supposed to be ONLY for God-awesome builds and nobody else is invited to the party
Run 3 static groups... :) We pick up new players every so often... and sometimes they dont feel like they can contribute.
 

Onyxia2016

Well-known member
Remember the days when solo'ing a wizard at anything above normal difficulty was a real challenge?
I play with a static group and usually take the tank/meat shield route. My last life I played an EK/PM wizard.
I tanked everything as if I was a fighter or barb and we played only reaper.

There is just something not right about that.
 

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
Remember the days when solo'ing a wizard at anything above normal difficulty was a real challenge?
I play with a static group and usually take the tank/meat shield route. My last life I played an EK/PM wizard.
I tanked everything as if I was a fighter or barb and we played only reaper.

There is just something not right about that.
You're complaining about your "insider knowledge". The moment you're ready for reaper, you have developed a strong understanding of game mechanics
 

Raedier

Well-known member
EK used to be one of my favourite classes.

If imbue scaling gets reduced by 25% that seems like a pretty substantial nerf to me. on a build that was already underperforming at endgame. All that while Kensei is getting pretty huge buffs and that was already one of the best endgame trees for melee.
That doesn’t seem entirely fair from my perspective.
 
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Blunt Hackett

Well-known member
Players: Your lag changes are dumb and aren't targeting the real issues.

Devs: kk, we'll punt
JK, enjoy the new purple lag
challenge

Devs: We're nerfing Amber temple and
heroic weapon W multipliers, but
good news! It'll buff melee
late game a little too!

Players: What?! No!

Devs: Ok, we heard you. We'll fix it.
*uses healing kit +1 on weapons
they killed*
*makes cutscene skippable*

To be fair, I came back to the game after asking to have my account deleted years ago. I quit because I just couldn't build how I wanted because some s/s/s gear was statistically improbable. I bought an expansion with perks that didn't work, and drop rates were generally abysmal. Fortunately, that has changed (well, I bet the broken stuff is still broken, but idk because you can't buy it anymore).

Still, Lamannia seems to be just smoke and mirrors. Devs do what they want. Response to backlash feels like they expected the behavior, go a few steps past players' boundaries, then backstep to what they can get away with.
 

fiwabar

Old-timer, mostly an observer
Players: Your lag changes are dumb and aren't targeting the real issues.

Devs: kk, we'll punt
JK, enjoy the new purple lag
challenge

Devs: We're nerfing Amber temple and
heroic weapon W multipliers, but
good news! It'll buff melee
late game a little too!

Players: What?! No!

Devs: Ok, we heard you. We'll fix it.
*uses healing kit +1 on weapons
they killed*
*makes cutscene skippable*

To be fair, I came back to the game after asking to have my account deleted years ago. I quit because I just couldn't build how I wanted because some s/s/s gear was statistically improbable. I bought an expansion with perks that didn't work, and drop rates were generally abysmal. Fortunately, that has changed (well, I bet the broken stuff is still broken, but idk because you can't buy it anymore).

Still, Lamannia seems to be just smoke and mirrors. Devs do what they want. Response to backlash feels like they expected the behavior, go a few steps past players' boundaries, then backstep to what they can get away with.
Imo hard to say it better, sad but true
 

Meharial

New member
You focus on one aspect. The fact is they standardize how active attack work, from how they scale and whether they hit one target or multiple target how much they will do. You can consider these changes good but they have been more standardize. They did not just change every where it says 1w to now say 10% etc.

Named item standardization that they did awhile back and now expanding to W on weapons is more of my issue then this particular change.
Except that is what they did? At most they changed the very few cases of .5W to 10% from what I can tell. You said 'With this recent update standardize of active attack remove some of the uniqueness of certain attacks between classes etc.'

The aspect I commented on was the most obvious example that 'standardizing' is a floating term without definition or being used incorrectly.

To 'standardize' is to have something conform to a standard or the process of setting a standard. So all weapon damage being calculated by [W] that has a set value for each [W] is a standard.

If it wasn't standardized, active attacks would be adding different unique flat damage numbers for every different active attack, eg Cracking Attack does 100/250/500 damage but Splitting Steel does 75/200/350 damage. Two attacks from two different classes going from +3W to +30% didn't change anything about the 'uniqueness' because it was already standardized. The standard was just +W.

The term you are probably looking for is 'homogenize,' an example being all melee builds have 2 cleave attacks, 1 single target and a self heal or all melee builds need points in a particular tree or skill. FvS and Cleric having near identical 'melee' trees is homogenization, not standardization.
I am certain the OP is not referring to the Special Attack Changes, and certainly not just this one update. Weapons standardization for +W weapon damage was his example. And there is no elusive shiny unicorn in this game to chase any longer. Back in teh day I longed for a scroll of Sword of Shadow or shard of Ring of Spell Storing. They were so rare and powerful, which I envied those that had them. But part of the fun was the pursuit and dedication to finding them. There is no equivalent chase left in the game. The closest thing is the rerolling of GoMF. So many whine and complain that it requires so much to find the perfect roll, and give up with something they can live with. Others will farm threads until they get what they want. There should also be a chase goal in this game. The only chase left is really meaningless rXP beyond 156pts and every single past life. Whats left after this? I guess waiting for the next nerf to your perfect build, so that you have to plan, respec, farm gear, etc, just to get back to what you already had. This is not fun.
I was replying to someone in particular, not the OP. But I also don't understand your point either. Is the sword of shadows getting a nerf to its special crit profile as well? I do not believe so, but correct me if I am wrong. And considering the +W is intended to keep scaling with higher level weapons that release, I am not sure why you are asserting that you just wait to get nerfed instead of running the new raid.

YMMV on if you want the new raids to have items you want because it's paywalled, but there it is.

How do you figure that?

Changing from 100% spell power scaling to 75% spell power scaling seems very clearly a nerf for all spell power scaling imbues.
Even if we add in the separate change to switch d6 imbues to d8, the net of the two is still a nerf... i.e. 100% of d6 is 3.5 average. 75% of d8 is 3.375 average.

Anyway, I don't think the problem is so much that they've 'homogenized everything'. If that is the goal, then I can only call it a spectacular failure as there are CLEARLY still some builds that are vastly stronger than others.

Rather, I'd say that the frequent SWEEPING changes are causing a lot of disruption and re-evaluation and thus... annoyance. You figure out a good build and then watch it get nerfed into oblivion. So you work out another design... and that gets nuked too. If the game is too much of a moving target it becomes frustrating.

And on the flip side, if the game sits on underperforming, underpowered or incredibly niche skills, weapons or classes for literal years on end, it stagnates and that is rightfully seen as a negative. And as far as I know, the only thing that got 'nuked' was caster MM Shiradi. What else?
 

Lagin

Well-known member
I've been playing since 2017 and I have NO idea what you're talking about. After multiple alleged rebalancing I see NO difference in gameplay. its possible some older weapons are no longer as effective as they used to be, so you craft new weapons or hunt new gear
hate to burst your bubble, those of us playing for 17 years or so agree with the op. We see a change, and quite frankly the more they try to change things, the worse the game game gets.

bad choices made, while ViP becomes even more meaningless. The writing is on the wall
 

Cyran

Active member
Except that is what they did? At most they changed the very few cases of .5W to 10% from what I can tell. You said 'With this recent update standardize of active attack remove some of the uniqueness of certain attacks between classes etc.'

I think we can agree that items changes in past was standardization? Every item should have x abilities, the stats should scale base on level, the recent change on what W a weapon of base on level?

When it come to active attacks I think there goal is to make standards about what damage a ability to do and how it scales.

I quote Torc "This standardization will make attacks a lot easier to balance as they'll be worth the same percentage bonus dps no matter what level you are, what dice your weapon has, what bonus damage you have, and what W score your weapon is."

The point is I believe there overall goal have been to make standards for the game to make balancing easier which will lead to homogenization which I don't like.

To be clear the point of my original post was to say I think internally they trying to make standards on how they develop and design the game with the goal of making balance easier which results in removing uniqueness from the game or in other words homogenization of the game.
 

Thor

Looking for a New Love
Please consider that they are making these changes, not to balance anything, but to drive sales of DDO Store Items as they change peoples builds and gear. It is very transparent that they make these changes to make money. Instead of making decent things we'll pay for, which is too much work for them, they've gone this route. They've been pushing this hard the last 3 or 4 years. It's rather embarrassing, but it is exactly what they do.
They could care less about balance in this game that they do not play themselves.
 

dur

aka Cybersquirt
DDO WAS NEVER CONCEIVED AS A SOLO GAMING EXPERIENCE (sorry for the caps but this point needs emphasizing).

Once you play enough you soon realize this is a teamgame and you really need to bring family/friends together and play quests as a team. Guilds are even more geared toward team gaming.

Agreed there exists some insane builds that can waltz through legendary quests @R10 BUT when such gamers take control of forums they create the impression DDO is supposed to be ONLY for God-awesome builds and nobody else is invited to the party
The way these forums read sometimes, there are more than a few players that can waltz but I digress. I work on my toons over time. I've run with 'the big boys,' and after having gained 3 levels I'm exhausted, and stuck with regearing my toons! ;P I have 2 second life characters. I cannot imagine grinding out 10 Past lives nor does it appeal to - although, over all these years, sure.

The only thing I really wish SSG would do is refund the players, somehow, when they make major changes to builds, so we can easily respec.
Fred just doesn't work right, ya know? I'd throw out suggestions but there's really no point. Like Thor, I believe this is just to get us to spend (more) money or points.

Other than that, I'm good with getting 500 points each month. It's an MMO (shrug)
 

DDO Gaming

Well-known member
hate to burst your bubble, those of us playing for 17 years or so agree with the op. We see a change, and quite frankly the more they try to change things, the worse the game game gets.
I misspoke. There are regular teaks which can amount to a huge change over time especially for gamers who are returning after several years. I recall watching a video of a gamer making the same complaint about world of warcraft.
 

Onyxia2016

Well-known member
You're complaining about your "insider knowledge". The moment you're ready for reaper, you have developed a strong understanding of game mechanics

While it is true that someone that has played for a long time has an advantage over a new player due to "inside knowledge" this does not change the fact that there are classes that are not designed to tank and take hits. Even in the early years of the game I knew every dungeon and the location of every trap and how each major fight played out. Have this knowledge did not help the fact that a Wizard in hand to hand combat would loose to a kobold not to mention a horde of kobolds. Wizards were glass cannons that could easily be one shot if not careful so having a fighter, barb, paladin, basically anyone with intimidate to shield them was needed. In turn the wizard would blast the foes down quickly. This was a truly symbiotic relationship.

The wizard class was the weakest class physically, dating back to the PnP days. Fast forward to today with all the balancing, a wizard can tank most anything except raid bosses. It is this ultra balancing of the game that is the cause for this, as game knowledge could only help to a certain point.
 

Archaic

Well-known member
I stopped playing 2015 returned roughly 2020 and see posts like this every time something gets changed.
What happens is people keep playing regardless and adapt to the changes and in the end it isn't a big deal.
Some of these posts may be legit, others I think are just fishing for discussion.
But in the grand scheme of things nothing has ever been game breaking and its always a bunch of fluff whether it's someone getting burnt out or has a lot of angst built up or like I said devs trying to get input by being critical of themselves.
I mean kind of seriously anybody mentioning SOS is kind of out of the loop IMO.
What has that to do with anything other than it once being an elitist symbol ?
 
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