Too much "balancing", I've have enough

[Ethnyae]

No, not really. I don't use spellpower imbues, I don't like the abundant immunities those builds come with. But I'm going to lose 5 imbue dice just because they decided to completely redesign a tree with a new direction.

That's not a small change, and I'm tired of them being unable to stay in one design direction. They lurch more than a ship in the middle of a storm. It's all the time: today this, tomorrow that, the day after that... damn, stop once and decide what you want to do, don't drive us crazy by changing everything every update.

yeah it's not a simple matter of respeccing, if you've done 2 years of equipment tetris to tune your build and then they nuke it, all that work goes too

 

[Contessor]

yeah it's not a simple matter of respeccing, if you've done 2 years of equipment tetris to tune your build and then they nuke it, all that work goes too

But remember they sell you more jewlers kits and sentience tool kits as well.

 

[Eme]

yeah it's not a simple matter of respeccing, if you've done 2 years of equipment tetris to tune your build and then they nuke it, all that work goes too

imagine the average amount of time a player puts in working out their build, multiply that by how many players there are, and then work out how many full human lives (that roughly equals) that are entirely lost in total with each of these whim changes to remove the fun aspect to make things more b̷l̷a̷n̷d̷ balanced

 

[Spook]

I stopped playing 2015 returned roughly 2020 and see posts like this every time something gets changed.
What happens is people keep playing regardless and adapt to the changes and in the end it isn't a big deal.

I can only speak for myself and a lot of the changes have been a big deal to me to the point where my spending on DDO is now almost non-existent and far below levels of just a couple of years ago.

I would be very surprised if SSG hadn’t noticed a reduction in revenue in the last couple of years as the game has been through some very rough times. I imagine they did notice and blamed it on daily gold rolls hence the “fiscally irresponsible” meme.

 

[gravisrs]

My 5 cents:
We saw the EG7 meeting and heard how LOTRO and DDO is focused on squeezing old players rather than attract new ones. This means the only one scenario for both games is to steadily slowly die (just see ddoaudit numbers for yourself). DDOFREEQUESTS just gave a small boost but it was mostly returning players that were content-paygated previously and hadn't resources to unlock content on their own (money nor time) so this was not a wave of newly attracted players.
Squeezing old players comes in two waves, nerfing some popular meta, then sell it back (or introduce new one) as a new race/class/epic destiny/etc. This is how squeezing works in modern MMO's! You think that melee handwrap Razorclaw Shifter meta is coincidence or a mistake? Or Macrotechnic synergies? History of alchemist, warlock didn't teached you anything? Or p2w items in collector editions like tomes of universal enchantments?

We are just a bunch of junkies that stays with the old drug and we actually should be happy that our teammates leaves this no perspective jail!

So I'm happy for you OP that you had a good trip (pun intended), and you moved on from being a lemon. Rest of us will struggle a little bit more...

 

[Br4d]

So the DDO paradigm around power balance is really simple:

1. Power creep stuff through the roof.

2. Nerf the outlying power builds somehow.

3. Sell new power in the form of a class, race or enhancement tree that requires a purchase. Make sure that it outclasses everything else.

Rinse and repeat.

This new "balance pass" thing is just some form of item 2 above.

No idea what item 3 will be but it will be here soon.

 

[geltril]

Is my bastard sword legendary 13 better or weaker now that it went from 15w down to 5.4w. Regular 13 was 5w before and I dont know now. I spent more than a few shards rerolling to finally get it. Never again. Ive been playing for one year and have hit the brick wall which tells me this is run by the same SSG that ruined Lotro that I played for over 10 years. The same thing happens over there. Invest time and real life money into a toon and have it "balanced" into uselessness. I quit raiding for that reason. RNG, constant nerfing and rebalancing, BTA and BTC, all designed to force you into the store unless the game is your full time job. I think this will be my last MMO. Any game that has a store for anything other than cosmetics is out.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Is my bastard sword legendary 13 better or weaker now that it went from 15w down to 5.4w. Regular 13 was 5w before and I dont know now. I spent more than a few shards rerolling to finally get it. Never again. Ive been playing for one year and have hit the brick wall which tells me this is run by the same SSG that ruined Lotro that I played for over 10 years. The same thing happens over there. Invest time and real life money into a toon and have it "balanced" into uselessness. I quit raiding for that reason. RNG, constant nerfing and rebalancing, BTA and BTC, all designed to force you into the store unless the game is your full time job. I think this will be my last MMO. Any game that has a store for anything other than cosmetics is out.

Legendary thirteen was buffed...

 

[dur]

imagine the average amount of time a player puts in working out their build, multiply that by how many players there are, and then work out how many full human lives (that roughly equals) that are entirely lost in total with each of these whim changes to remove the fun aspect to make things more b̷l̷a̷n̷d̷ balanced

Image how much time the casual player puts into their build only to have to reapply Enhancements every other week because they've changed; and Fred just stands there and looks at you funny.

 

[CBDunk]

I sometimes wonder if SSG wouldn't be better served saving up all of these 'balance adjustments' and releasing them en masse every two years or so. That way character design would be less of a moving target and more like a series of 'seasons';

Season 1: D&D v3.5
Season 2: Enhancements!
Season 3: Epic
Season 4: Complete overhaul (MRR/PRR, Melee/Ranged/Spell power, etc)
Season 5: LGS
Season 6: NEW Epic
Season 7: Legendary
Season 8: Imbues!

 

[dur]

Annually, just like the checkup. But that doesn't get folks putting down $$$. *according to SSG, clearly, given the direction of the last 8 (?) years.

 

[CBDunk]

No, they could still put out NEW content regularly to keep the money rolling in. New classes, races, enhancement trees, quests, zones, et cetera... all still good. Just hold off on rewriting / replacing existing systems for less frequent major releases.

 

[dur]

No, they could still put out NEW content regularly to keep the money rolling in. New classes, races, enhancement trees, quests, zones, et cetera... all still good. Just hold off on rewriting / replacing existing systems for less frequent major releases.

Of course. Like they did with Ravenloft.

eta: And then blah
And then blah
And then blah

Have any Shadowfell Conspiracy weapons been 'nerfed?'

 

[dur]

blah #1 - Stormhorns
Blah#2 & 3 = Feywilds and whatever..

Does anyone have weapons from it? I've got the goggles on 3 toons.

 

[Br4d]

Most MMO's that have been significantly updated have return problems for players returning after several years. This is not just DDO.

LotRO has an almost impossible curve to learn and understand the new Legendary system, particularly when you left with fully updated gear and are returning to a brand new system with all new items and some huge one-time decisions to make with the gear you already have.

WoW Retail has a couple of really bad points to return from in which you are caught in story quests that take forever to finish or that make you just ditch the entire quest line to start fresh on the new x-pac in dated gear.

For DDO the problems are all related too no reset and power layered behind many different systems some of which might be strange to a returning player.

This is why the Classic and Time-Locked Progression systems do so well. You can pop back in after 2 years, or 6 years or 12 years and the game will be at least vaguely familiar to you. Often it will be within immediate recall and boom you are up and running.

 

[Onyxia2016]

It would be very ease to get frustrated, hate and even quit the game when these "balancing" events happen, which screws up long standing good builds. Instead I take a deep breath and look at it as yet another challenge. A throwing down of the gauntlet so to speak.
Some builds may just need a little tweak and others may need a complete top down revamp.


If you enjoy the build design game within the main game, I mean the deep dive from starting stats to what potion you have up at level cap. This is more like solving a mathematical proof vs a simple 2+2=4 equation. It can be an interesting time. Although it does suck when this happens and you almost had a built tuned prefect. Better to have in happen now than just after its finished I guess.

I am betting streamers out there love it when "balancing" occurs. They can dust off old content on a build and create a 2.0 version to share.

In the end you have to find what makes you happy and go with it.

 

[Falkor]

We saw the EG7 meeting and heard how LOTRO and DDO is focused on squeezing old players rather than attract new ones. This means the only one scenario for both games is to steadily slowly die

Gravisrs, would you mind posting a link to this? I'd really like to see it for myself and think others here need to read it.

Without a marketing strategy to attract and retain new players, this does mean the only scenario is a long drawn out decline. The end game being servers getting turned off.

I've gone from playing daily to playing every month or so, and I'm not the only one. PlayerAudit.com shows the stats.

I really do want to play. I login excited, sit there for a minute, and log-out. Just can't get back into it knowing that

1. grinding for gear that will get nerfed, is a waste of time.
2. speccing a character to the nth degree is a waste of time because it'll get nerfed
3. And that leaves running the hamster wheel, which is enjoyable on occasion. Having run the content so many times, enjoyable is rare.
4. Not to mention the aggravation of lag, constant disconnects, misfired spells and attacks, ladder bug and movement issues ...

Years and years of this approach is just not sustainable for me as a player, I have almost no joy playing this game any more for many specific reasons that SSG doesn't care about.

SSG just, flat out, does not care about its customers and people who keep the lights on.

This is evidenced by how they've treated the player base and comments made by upper staff over the years. It seems as if SSG believes we are stupid and only holds the players in contempt.

"Don't like it, don't play it." Thats a fact. Ok. Hows that attitude working out for player retention ?

How SSG continues in this approach is mindboggling. Doing the same thing and expecting different results is a definition of insanity.

I don't know of a single long term player who looks at SSG and their approach and believes its sustainable. All the ones I know expect this game to die b/c of bad management.

Old School Runescape has an actual marketing plan and community communication strategy that is making them grow, despite it being an ancient game.

Old games are not the issue, management style is. The people at SSG could have a far more successful title on their hand if they simply adjusted their strategies.

But, whatever, they can't and won't and don't care. And neither do the players who have left or on their way out.

 

[Aebro Komatme]

Trollishly dim-witted, recycled garbage replies like this indicate that you’ve probably got absolutely nothing of value to add to the conversation anyway.

We’re currently shedding players at an alarming rate and it has everything to do with SSG‘s complete and utter disregard for the player base. Eventually, even the whales spending the most to keep the lights on are going to leave. So, when this game finally craps out, SSG will only have themselves and their bean counting overlords at EG7 to blame.

 

[Mary]

It is very interesting having played Baldur's Gate 3 which uses the 5e D&D ruleset how imbalanced and out of balance the rules in dungeons and dragons are. The dps is all over the place in that game but there are some clear standouts that overperform - fireball really obliterates literally everything as an example. It will always be and should always be impossible for a fireball to be balanced; that the whole point of playing the squishy wizard - once you get fireball you dominate. And it just gets better. Other classes have their niches. In DDO that can still be but the og poster is correct - the game is getting too dumbed down. Diablo IV is tanking directly because of balance nonsense like this. SWToR died because of balance nonsense. It is a real thing that developers who think they are making the game better actually ruin the game. The og poster said it beautifully ' let me balance myself ' in other words, devs, please stop trying to make the next meta by destroying the current. The game is a 17 going on 18 year old candy machine. Just let us have our 90000 different flavors of candy and do not try to boil it down to 3 candy bars, a bag of corn chips, and an apple. No one buys from those vending machines. We go for the ones with the good candy.

 

[Nokowi]

I sometimes wonder if SSG wouldn't be better served saving up all of these 'balance adjustments' and releasing them en masse every two years or so. That way character design would be less of a moving target and more like a series of 'seasons';

Season 1: D&D v3.5
Season 2: Enhancements!
Season 3: Epic
Season 4: Complete overhaul (MRR/PRR, Melee/Ranged/Spell power, etc)
Season 5: LGS
Season 6: NEW Epic
Season 7: Legendary
Season 8: Imbues!

I think their approach of buff/nerf is wrong. It breaks to many builds and playstyles.

A better approach would have been to simply have a month long buff that changes each month. The buff has synergy with the first month of release of the newest thing and has synergy with another month of buffing on release into the DDO store. Synergize this with future sales after release.

1) SSG is encouraged to make the new thing balanced absent the buff
2) everyone knows the buff is temporary
3) other builds are not negatively affected by the buff/nerf cycle
4) other builds have their turn in the sunlight when they have a monthly buff
5) people are competing against each other to best utilize the new build better within that first month (less sharing of overpowered or broken mechanics)
6) They can actually encourage more playstyles instead of narrowly focusing on RXP/min and buff/nerf and removing playstyles that make this difficult to monetize (like stealth!).

Their hardcore approach is also wrong. Their hardcore design pushes them into changes for hardcore that are not needed for the regular servers. They should have competitions within the regular servers and a "new-player" server with free transfer out that limits you to 5 past lives and 20 reaper points. The competitions should be significantly different from the usual choices for grinding XP or RP. The competitions should synergize with the monthly buff so that trying out the latest things is always worth considering. Competition rankings could be tiered by lives/reaper points.

You have the choice to play the new thing when it is at it's peak or to check it out later.