U61 Patch 1 (Raid Patch Preview) Balance Refresh

[Shear-buckler]

Completely wrong. Pure builds are supposed to be more powerful in what they specialize in, while multiclasses give up some of that power for the ability to do more things.

No. Pure builds are typically very generalized. To specialize is probably the most commong reason to multiclass, not to generalize even more.

If they become more flexible and more powerful then pure builds are obsolete and the game becomes much less varied.

No. If one multiclass replaces one pure class you have more variety not less, because there are far more ways to customize a multiclass build.

Want an example? Just look at what happened with monkchers back in the day. Too much low hanging fruit in so many trees and classes made them cokmpletely dominant and SSG decided to just kill the archetype. Not nerf, kill it. I know people who had 3 or 4 different toons as Monkchers, basically had ALL their toons as monchers.

There were a lot of variety among "monkchers", and there was far more customization and interesting choices compared to if it was a pure build that was equally dominant so I am not sure what your point is.

 

[Contessor]

No. Pure builds are typically very generalized. To specialize is probably the most commong reason to multiclass, not to generalize even more.



No. If one multiclass replaces one pure class you have more variety not less, because there are far more ways to customize a multiclass build.



There were a lot of variety among "monkchers", and there was far more customization and interesting choices compared to if it was a pure build that was equally dominant so I am not sure what your point is.

So you are implying that taking 1 lvl of FVS (for a cheap trance) and 1 lvl of Warlock (for Arcane Warrior procs) adds variety on a melee build? If anything it has come compulsory since the capstones are weak. Their is zero sense to any of your points. Multiclassing has become favorable and pure builds are dying at end game, except for a few that have strong capstones (i.e sorcs, alchemists and bards).

Wizard has always had a weak capstone in any tree so multiclassing has become preferential, as well as almost every melee build for example. Although I would argue that the position of wizard capstone on a palemaster is about as close to an equitable trade as it comes.

And I do not think you understand the definition of specialization. Specialization a particular area which someone concentrates on or is an expert in. By definition, your character should spend all of their time training a particular class, not adding additional classes. And from a gameplay persepctive, less than pure should sacrifice something to gain something as far as multiclassing. It should be an equitable trade, not an advantage either way. Many capstones are weak, so choices become less equitable on many builds, hence build choices become more limited aside from flavor. People multiclass because it is the better choice for most builds and playstyles, not because it adds variety to their current build, and honestly that is counter intuitive to having build versatility.

 

[Shear-buckler]

So you are implying that taking 1 lvl of FVS (for a cheap trance) and 1 lvl of Warlock (for Arcane Warrior procs) adds variety on a melee build? If anything it has come compulsory since the capstones are weak. Their is zero sense to any of your points. Multiclassing has become favorable and pure builds are dying at end game, except for a few that have strong capstones (i.e sorcs, alchemists and bards).

Wizard has always had a weak capstone in any tree so multiclassing has become preferential, as well as almost every melee build for example. Although I would argue that the position of wizard capstone on a palemaster is about as close to an equitable trade as it comes.

And I do not think you understand the definition of specialization. Specialization a particular area which someone concentrates on or is an expert in. By definition, your character should spend all of their time training a particular class, not adding additional classes. And from a gameplay persepctive, less than pure should sacrifice something to gain something as far as multiclassing. It should be an equitable trade, not an advantage either way. Many capstones are weak, so choices become less equitable on many builds, hence build choices become more limited aside from flavor. People multiclass because it is the better choice for most builds and playstyles, not because it adds variety to their current build, and honestly that is counter intuitive to having build versatility.

I understand the definition of specialization just fine. My point is that classes are typically generalists in terms of actual capabilities. By your reasoning bards are "specialist generalist" which just does not make any sense.

The claim i responded to was that multiclassing is to add versatility and more generalized capabilities to your character. But every example brought up so far shows multiclassing is done to specialize in more DPS.

 

[Guntango]

And I do not think you understand the definition of specialization. Specialization a particular area which someone concentrates on or is an expert in. By definition, your character should spend all of their time training a particular class, not adding additional classes.

I think Shear is saying that, if you want to play a build that has a slightly different purpose than that of a pure class, you could specialize (customize) by multi-classing.

I'm sure you'll agree that if you want to trap, but also want to be a bard, you only need to splash 1 rogue level, making the 19/1 multiclass more specialized than the pure bard.

 

[Lotoc]

Ah yes, multiclassing makes you more generalist, like the 12/6/2 (or 13/6/1) rogue archer builds are super flexible and can shoot bow good or shoot bow good.
Or the 15/3/2 alchemist imbue build is so flexible, it can do all sorts of things, like imbue inquisitive or... imbue thrower?

Class splits are usually for specializing super hard into a very specific shared mechanic between multiple classes rather than the more generalist capacity of a pure 20 being able to swap enhancements and feats and do kind of okay in another role.
A 12pal/4fighter/4arti ac stacking tank will make a god awful dps trying to respec into melee.

 

[Teh_Troll]

Split build archers, for example, do more damage than pure 20 Ranger.

Pure 20 Ranger is easier to level.

That's the difference.

 

[The Blonde]

So I love that you changed Poison Exploit in the monk tree. However the DC is still outdated (doesn't use a tatics/assassinate DC). If this could be added to make a good DC achievable that would be great!

The fix to deadly exploits is awesome! The main issue tho was the saving throw required to land poison exploit was far too low and needs to have tactics behind it to make it viable, sunder or assassin should synergize well with it.

Doesn't the poison exploit DC correspond to the DC for Touch of Despair? If so, stunning bonuses should apply to it (stunning bonuses apply to all the offensive finishers). On that note, if they are separate DC types, would Exploit poison benefit from something like the saves vs poison debuff from shiv?

I also thought that Ninjutsu (aka Poison Exploit etc) doesn't have its own DC, but is rather based on the DC of Touch of Despair, which according to the wiki does scale via Stunning (unsure if this is reflected on the Touch of Despair tooltip). Whether a) the current Touch of Despair DC is good enough for endgame content and b) if Touch of Despair should be using Assassinate instead of Stunning, are 2 different questions.

everything in ninja spy works in my testing EXCEPT poison exploits does not scale with melee power, with and without deadly expoits. did not test ranged.

Anybody else able to test this?

 

[Deathbringer]

Hello again! Your feedback on the last update's version of this kind of feature was quite positive, so we're trying another round of generalized balance changes to help keep you all on your toes.

• Warpriest/Warsoul
  
  • Divine Vessel is now just a cleave, no stack requirements

THIS is good! In it actual state is an awful skill and waste of AP...

 

[VinoeWhines]

Hello again! Your feedback on the last update's version of this kind of feature was quite positive, so we're trying another round of generalized balance changes to help keep you all on your toes.

• Swashbuckler
  • AP cost of double strike action boost reduced to 1ap/rank
• Archmage
  • Damage dice of SLAs increased to match modern values
  • Damage SLAs now scale with highest of all spell schools
  • Energy of the Scholar SP cost increase to 100 at 3rd rank
• Harper
  • Increase universal to match 1mp/rp = 3universal
  • Harper Leadership wrong min level fixed
• Sorc
  • T5 SLAs scale with evoc/conj
• Vistani
  • Fan of Knives break breakables
• Frenzied Berzerker
  • Power Rage reduced to 1ap/rank
• Ninja Spy
  • Diversion now grants +5 assassinate DCs when active
  • Shadow Double t5 now grants +5 assassinate DCs when active
  • Crippling Strike t5 now grants +3 assassinate DCs
  • Crit Mult in core 20 moves to core 18
  • Flash Bang and Touch of Death now factor in Assassinate bonuses
  • Poison Exploits now scales with higher of melee/ranged power
  • Deadly Exploits is now fixed, is 1 rank 2AP, causes your poison exploit to deal double damage, and scales with higher of melee/ranged power
• Warpriest/Warsoul
  • Divine Vessel is now just a cleave, no stack requirements
• Falconry
  • Practiced Accuracy now has a 3rd rank
• Nature's Protector
  • Rage of the Beast, Primal Beast, and Enduring Beast now have 3rd ranks
• Battle Engineer
  • Crit Mult in core 20 moves to core 12

If you like these kinds of changes and want to see more of them, let us know! Please also feel free to suggest your own small tweaks that you feel would be cool to see in an upcoming update. Thanks!

Thanks for communicating to forum,
A lot of posters happy with the direction of improvements to classes.
Will there be a hard look at Rogue Assassin Enhancement tree as it seems to loose abilities and somehow they appear in other trees.
I’m not advocating to remove those abilities from other trees but to at least put back in the Rogue tree since other trees have it when Rogues had it before to just be removed and still in other trees.

Rogue Assassin had Vorpal on 20 in its Core 5 or 6 before and it was removed but Monks get it in their Cores still.

Rogues had Cheat Death before but it got removed and Monk still has Rise of the Phoenix.

Other Enhancement trees are getting solid Stealth/CC abilities/Assassinate boosts even while the “Assassin” tree gets neglected in Assassinate abilities or Rogueish abilities.
Thanks for fixing the poison strikes to have workable DC that factor Assassinate in them.

The 25% HP Bonus should be in Measure the Foe as the Light Armor Mastery only works on Light Armor and not for Clothe Rogue wearers that have no use for Light Armor, that Enhancements PRR is only for Light Armor and no benefit for clothe/Robe wearers.

Since the Removal of Double strike and offhand doublestrike, TWF Rogues loose out on multiple sneak attacks Assassinates to more mobs
With Dark Hunter and Falconry and now Monk(DC wise) abilities getting “Assassinate” abilities and DCs in their trees, what would give Rogues back at least some dignity back to its class could be allowing it to have inherent Strikethrough percentage/ability in its attacks to at least differentiate it as the Assassin class specialist it once was, this could be in putting in Strikethrough boost % percentage added to Assassinate to separate it from Dark Hunter or Melee Falconry Assassinate, or give the ability to lower cooldown of Assassinate from 12 seconds to 8 seconds or less,In order to allow assassins to have some Prestige in its class as seems the case right now that abilities keep getting removed from the class and given to other trees or other trees kept same abilities.

Dark Hunters Throw Bear traps is a great example of a nice ability, that Assassins could use in the Tree as well as the Monks create distraction dummy or the Feydarks familial distract pet, as this would allow an assassin to use Sneak Attacks on first hit, since sneaking to mobs is almost impossible in group where everyone “Wings” and AOE cast/ranges mobs before your halfway there.
This is where Strikethrough would help Two Weapon fighting styles get back the mainhand/offhand double strike we lost and in essence the multi-assassinates that this class would differentiate itself from the Me Too Assassinates that are being introduced in Trees now.

TLDR list is:

* Put back Vorpal on 20 in Core(Monks still have it)
* Cheat Death which is what Monks still have in Rise of the Phoenix
*25% HP moved to Measure the Foe, as Light Armor Mastery is gated to only Light armor Rogues when there are Clothe/Robe wearing Rogues that don’t get any benefit at all from 3 points wasted to get the HP bonus and locks them out from spending the 3 points in using for Deadly/Weakening Strikes
* Having a form of tossing vial:/traps as a Rogue in stealth(Dark Hunter/Feydark Famial CC-distracts opens Sneak Attacks)
* Allowing Strikethrough to be calculated in Assassinate/Sneak Attacks(to differentiate from Dark Hunter/Falconry “Assassinate”
* Fix Sneak speed to actually be 75% instead of 50% and the having to re-equip weapon or “reStealth” to gain sneak speed bonus.

Thanks Torc as for your hard work and communication is appreciated very much so, in sometimes a thankless job/endeavor, as I know can sometimes be felt as in how many choose to express and communicate to others, in a never satisfied society we are in.

 

[rabidfox]

Minor thing for Bard warchanters. Iced Edges imbue stops working after death but the toggle stays on. Doesn't work until you toggle it off and back on. (technically not a balance change but bug/QoL, but as long as devs are checking this thread and doing small work on various classes)

 

[Neo]

I also thought that Ninjutsu (aka Poison Exploit etc) doesn't have its own DC, but is rather based on the DC of Touch of Despair, which according to the wiki does scale via Stunning (unsure if this is reflected on the Touch of Despair tooltip). Whether a) the current Touch of Despair DC is good enough for endgame content and b) if Touch of Despair should be using Assassinate instead of Stunning, are 2 different questions.


Anybody else able to test this?

I tested, it is touch of despair. Touch of despair does not explicitly say it uses stunning DCs - It reads "(DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod)" HOWEVER the save does match that of my other stunning attacks. So tooltip is wrong but it seems the wiki is right that it does scale with stunning. Good Catch.


EDIT: Tested touch of death, does not scale off any tatics/assassinate DCs. Could be a good change to make it scale off one or the other.

 

[The Blonde]

I tested, it is touch of despair. Touch of despair does not explicitly say it uses stunning DCs - It reads "(DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod)" HOWEVER the save does match that of my other stunning attacks. So tooltip is wrong but it seems the wiki is right that it does scale with stunning. Good Catch.


EDIT: Tested touch of death, does not scale off any tatics/assassinate DCs. Could be a good change to make it scale off one or the other.

If you check the original post in this thread, you will see they plan to change Touch of Death to scale with Assassinate

 

[Tuxedomanwashere]

Whether a) the current Touch of Despair DC is good enough for endgame content and b) if Touch of Despair should be using Assassinate instead of Stunning, are 2 different questions.

Touché

 

[Descone]

Mechanic needs some heavy fixes and QoL updates, I will only focus on that tree in this post. I quoted 2 other posters suggestions for Mechanic at the bottom of the post. I will only be posting suggested changes and what is wrong with items in this tree.

Suggestions
- As dxeo said, adding the Accelerate Spell Feat to the tree would help with the Alchemical Trap Attacks seeing as rogues cannot take Metamagics without multiclassing
- Normalize the DCs on the Alchemical Trap Attacks, they peak pretty low and become useless. Either make them no save or make them scale based on 50% of Disable Device up to 100% with 3 ranks in T2 Improved Traps
-
Cores
Core 2(level 3) Tanglefoot: Cast animation is too slow, 30 second cooldown is too long, damage is underwhelming per tick and tick duration, utility would be nice if it wasn't a pain to use
Core 4(Level 12) Add Insightful Reflexes Feat in addition to existing
Core 6(Capstone) Make this +4 Intelligence(remove Dexterity), Add either +1 Competence Threat Range with Great Crossbows and/or +10/20 Ranged power and/or 100% reduced Ranged Threat(Rogues have no source of Ranged Threat Reduction)

Tier 1
Thunderstone: Damage is low, DC is low, doesn't function how it reads. Make this cost 2 AP for 1 Rank only, make it deal 1d6+3 Sonic Damage per Rogue Level, scale DC off Disable Device like suggested above
Awareness: Add +1 attack per rank in addition to it's existing bonus

Tier 2
Add: Accelerate Spell Feat with prereq of Thunderstone and as a prereq to Ooze Flask at cost of 1 or 2 AP

Tier 3
Ooze Flask: Damage is low, DC is low. Along same process, Make a single Rank Costing 2 AP, make it deal 1d8+6 Acid/Rust Damage per Rogue Level, reduce AC/PRR by 10, scale DC off Disable Device
Use Magic Device: Replace this with something more exciting, maybe a 3 rank Threat Reduction -20/30/40%

Tier 5
Time Bomb: Clunky animation, AoE is tiny, it explodes with no effect 80% of the time, Damage is not worth the headache of using, DC is low. Make this a single Rank 2 AP Enhancement, dealing 50 Sonic/Fire per Rogue Level and give it scaling off 400% Ranged Power(it's a T5 skill shot that requires placement time and a countdown to explode, it should do spectacular damage), scale DC off Disable Device

FROM dxeo
- add some passive buffs to rogue mechanic core 2; tanglefoot blows and thats all you get aside from 5 meter PBS.
- rogue mechanic core 2; tanglefoot cooldown is 30 seconds for an underwhelming effect. buff it and or decrease cooldown.
- rogue mechanic thunderstone says it dazes but it blinds. also its targetting is no good at medium and long range.
- add accelerate spell metamagic for zero spell points to rogue mechanic tree

From Requiro
Rogue
Mechanic
Core 1- Add: You can now use your Intelligence modifier for to hit with all crossbows and thrown weapons
Core 3 - Move: gain proficiency with light repeating crossbows from Core 6
Core 6 - Move: gain proficiency with heavy repeating crossbows from Core 12
Core 12 - Move You gain a +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Multiplier with bows, crossbows & thrown weapons from Core 18
Core 18 - Additional +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Multiplier with Great Crossbows and +1 Sneak Attack dice
Rapid Fire (Tier 5) - 1 rank, 1 AP cost - +15% doubleshot

 

[Contessor]

Mechanic needs some heavy fixes and QoL updates, I will only focus on that tree in this post. I quoted 2 other posters suggestions for Mechanic at the bottom of the post. I will only be posting suggested changes and what is wrong with items in this tree.

Suggestions
- As dxeo said, adding the Accelerate Spell Feat to the tree would help with the Alchemical Trap Attacks seeing as rogues cannot take Metamagics without multiclassing
- Normalize the DCs on the Alchemical Trap Attacks, they peak pretty low and become useless. Either make them no save or make them scale based on 50% of Disable Device up to 100% with 3 ranks in T2 Improved Traps
-
Cores
Core 2(level 3) Tanglefoot: Cast animation is too slow, 30 second cooldown is too long, damage is underwhelming per tick and tick duration, utility would be nice if it wasn't a pain to use
Core 4(Level 12) Add Insightful Reflexes Feat in addition to existing
Core 6(Capstone) Make this +4 Intelligence(remove Dexterity), Add either +1 Competence Threat Range with Great Crossbows and/or +10/20 Ranged power and/or 100% reduced Ranged Threat(Rogues have no source of Ranged Threat Reduction)

Tier 1
Thunderstone: Damage is low, DC is low, doesn't function how it reads. Make this cost 2 AP for 1 Rank only, make it deal 1d6+3 Sonic Damage per Rogue Level, scale DC off Disable Device like suggested above
Awareness: Add +1 attack per rank in addition to it's existing bonus

Tier 2
Add: Accelerate Spell Feat with prereq of Thunderstone and as a prereq to Ooze Flask at cost of 1 or 2 AP

Tier 3
Ooze Flask: Damage is low, DC is low. Along same process, Make a single Rank Costing 2 AP, make it deal 1d8+6 Acid/Rust Damage per Rogue Level, reduce AC/PRR by 10, scale DC off Disable Device
Use Magic Device: Replace this with something more exciting, maybe a 3 rank Threat Reduction -20/30/40%

Tier 5
Time Bomb: Clunky animation, AoE is tiny, it explodes with no effect 80% of the time, Damage is not worth the headache of using, DC is low. Make this a single Rank 2 AP Enhancement, dealing 50 Sonic/Fire per Rogue Level and give it scaling off 400% Ranged Power(it's a T5 skill shot that requires placement time and a countdown to explode, it should do spectacular damage), scale DC off Disable Device

A free feat at tier 2 seems a bit off don’t you think? Maybe this should be in core 3 or tier 4, or at least have a pre req for more than 2 lvls of rogue.

 

[Descone]

A free feat at tier 2 seems a bit off don’t you think? Maybe this should be in core 3 or tier 4, or at least have a pre req for more than 2 lvls of rogue.

That's a fair point, core 3 would be decent, because you still get it fairly early for leveling. How would you shift the tree around to open a spot on Tier 4?

-Maybe move Improved Traps into the progression of ooze flask.
-Shift Wrack Construct and Disable Construct both down down a Tier.
-Then add Accelerate Spell in Tier 4 with Ooze Flask as a prereq and it as a prereq for Time Bomb.

Another idea would be to open up Rogue Special Feats(10, 13, 16, 19) to select regular Rogue Style Feats, also including Metamagics that can be used for Alchemical Trap Attacks. Along that line, add to Core 4, You now count as a level 1 Alchemist for the purpose of being able to take Metamagics Feats.

 

[The Blonde]

I tested, it is touch of despair. Touch of despair does not explicitly say it uses stunning DCs - It reads "(DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod)" HOWEVER the save does match that of my other stunning attacks. So tooltip is wrong but it seems the wiki is right that it does scale with stunning. Good Catch.


EDIT: Tested touch of death, does not scale off any tatics/assassinate DCs. Could be a good change to make it scale off one or the other.

Takeaway being that Touch of Despair needs its tooltip fixed to mention it scales off of Stunning.

 

[LurkingVeteran]

Hello again! Your feedback on the last update's version of this kind of feature was quite positive, so we're trying another round of generalized balance changes to help keep you all on your toes.

• Swashbuckler
  • AP cost of double strike action boost reduced to 1ap/rank
• Archmage
  • Damage dice of SLAs increased to match modern values
  • Damage SLAs now scale with highest of all spell schools
  • Energy of the Scholar SP cost increase to 100 at 3rd rank
• Harper
  • Increase universal to match 1mp/rp = 3universal
  • Harper Leadership wrong min level fixed
• Sorc
  • T5 SLAs scale with evoc/conj
• Vistani
  • Fan of Knives break breakables
• Frenzied Berzerker
  • Power Rage reduced to 1ap/rank
• Ninja Spy
  • Diversion now grants +5 assassinate DCs when active
  • Shadow Double t5 now grants +5 assassinate DCs when active
  • Crippling Strike t5 now grants +3 assassinate DCs
  • Crit Mult in core 20 moves to core 18
  • Flash Bang and Touch of Death now factor in Assassinate bonuses
  • Poison Exploits now scales with higher of melee/ranged power
  • Deadly Exploits is now fixed, is 1 rank 2AP, causes your poison exploit to deal double damage, and scales with higher of melee/ranged power
• Warpriest/Warsoul
  • Divine Vessel is now just a cleave, no stack requirements
• Falconry
  • Practiced Accuracy now has a 3rd rank
• Nature's Protector
  • Rage of the Beast, Primal Beast, and Enduring Beast now have 3rd ranks
• Battle Engineer
  • Crit Mult in core 20 moves to core 12

If you like these kinds of changes and want to see more of them, let us know! Please also feel free to suggest your own small tweaks that you feel would be cool to see in an upcoming update. Thanks!

When you say that the Archmage SLAs have been updated, does this also mean Cyclonic Blast and Chain Missiles in the Evo path? Fixing these would be a great boon for wizards everywhere. Even if it's just Cyclonic Blast. It has tiny area, you can easily give it the standard D6+5 np.

Chain Missiles has had a bugged caster level scaling since forever, but if you gave it the standard D6+3 it would at least be relevant in heroics.

 

[YeeboF]

Hello again! Your feedback on the last update's version of this kind of feature was quite positive, so we're trying another round of generalized balance changes to help keep you all on your toes.

• Archmage
  • Damage dice of SLAs increased to match modern values
  • Energy of the Scholar SP cost increase to 100 at 3rd rank

I greatly support these changes. The second has been one of my pet peeves for years.

My suggestions would be:

In the martial FS and cleric trees (e.g., Warpriest):

1. Divine might: multiselector so that you can base it on Cha or Wisdom for a Cleric (just like FS currently). My #1 suggestion, current design where only one class can use with their casting stat is bizarre.

Other suggestions that would be stronger buffs:

2. Cut the cooldown of Smite Foe to 6 second or 5 seconds (matching cleave). It's a single target attack that only does 2[W]. If you are worried about Ameliorating Strike, tie it to Radiant flourish instead. Of course I am not sure that Ameliorating Strike is strong enough to actually worry about, especially given how much stronger Consecration is in epics, and the low amount of healing in heroics.

3. Divine power: multiselector so that you can choose Str., Wisdom, or Cha for the +6. Even making Cha an option for Clerics would make a lot more sense with the current design of divine might.

4. Righteous weapons line: Have them either add more damage or each only cost a single point. For example, add +2 damage per tier instead of +1, since each only affects a single weapon. You are also very often locking yourself into a weapon with bad base damage and/ or crit profiles to use the full line.

To prevent these being abused by splash builds, the progression should be T1: +1, T2: +1, T3: +2, T4: +3, T5: +3 (unchanged). Would be a net gain of +3 damage if you put at least 22 points in the tree.

An alternate solution would be to just cut the cost down to 1 point. Would be very nice abilities for a single point.

As it stands I feel like it really stings to only get +1 to hit and damage for such laser focused abilities. 12 USP is for 8 enhancement points is also not all that amazing even as a bonus with the damage.

 

[misterski]

2. Cut the cooldown of Smite Foe to 6 second or 5 seconds (matching cleave). It's a single target attack that only does 2[W]. If you are worried about Ameliorating Strike, tie it to Radiant flourish instead. Of course I am not sure that Ameliorating Strike is strong enough to actually worry about, especially given how much stronger Consecration is in epics, and the low amount of healing in heroics.

They could just give Ameliorating Strike it's own cool down. It's not unprecedented (the heal from Divine Smite in DC comes to mind). Then they wouldn't have to worry about speeding up Smite Foe which is a bit weak for it's current cool down.