We need Melee strong again. Vote yes or no

[KylerrTheMajty]

atm most of melee characters need revamp or repair

Paladin weak (low dps) nothing special about him and for a big minus is that he lack of ED:
-fury is best melee choice now and it bad interacts with paladin just 0 synergy and lore
- LD is imo to much focused on tactic and thats why is mostly back up ed
-Divine crusader would be nice but
got awful epic moment insted of doing it multiselctor and make something for dps they did only mass ressurect
same goes for Bring down Wrath why cant it be a multiselector with something for not shield?

Fighter atm very good but:
- good only bc kensai other 2 trees dosent matter
- good bc you take vistani capston that is 2 or 3x more op then all other enhants for other trees
- good synergy with fury
- can be splashed 18 fighter 1 cleric/fvs (divine might) 1 warlock (free 20Mp from Arcane Worrior +Eldritch aura this + vistani capstone= 40 MP , 2 ability and 5% speed)

Barbarian would be good if not so many bugs in him:

- frenzy not op but good
- ravager bugged as hell
- occult crap as hell
- can be splashed same as fighter 18/1/1
- great synergy with Fury

Ranger tempest atm:

- weak as hell almost no1 plays him

Rogue atm:

- assasin + vistani works good but requires a lot of gear , past lifes and skill
- acrobat would be nice if have more support bc queatersaves are weak weapons saddly

Monk atm:

- hate handwraps so cant tell
-staffs henshin just bad
- ninja spy just... (could be good but was abandoned long ago)

and we got 1 more game breaking tree, i mean razorclaw...


Paladin
Change Blessed purpose to gain stack on hiting every evil creature and not only an undead or evil outsider

Divine Crusader
Beckon Divinity - make it multiselector and make it a dps version paladin can go THF too you know (atm ONLY good ed is Fury)
Bring down the Wrath - same thing make it some dps version (atm its shield crap and ther is like 0,1% shield users)

Ranger
Longstrinder speed bonus should stack with striding
give tempest some imbue dice

Fury or LD
choose 1 and add there some more support to TWF bc luck of it hurts
for example no1 use quick cutter
and Dire charge is weak as epic strike


IMO the worst thing is Adrenaline is so much overtakes all other epic strikes its just ussless to take anything else ( exepction is drifting lotus but you need to have monk's lvl for it)

atm if you want to be a good dps you just have to take adrenaline and that bad imo it locks builds

Rogue
would be awsome if you would add shortsword to Assasins tree
Assassinate - change that its for example lvl1 core but it upgrades with tiers and cores and make it more ussable atm its good only for endgame and needs much of gear and skill to use it ( and still caster blast everthing before you even get to mob)
add more speed to sneaking

Vistani
change capstone or update all other's melee capstone bc this1 is just too op to miss

 

[PraetorPlato]

How many tempest rangers do you see at endgame?

if we count 18/1/1 (which we probably should), and 15/5 (with ranger as 5 with t5 tempest, which I understand is arguable), tempest is pretty darn good. One of the only top tier DPS melee that gets AoE as well!

 

[PraetorPlato]

Paladin weak (low dps) nothing special about him and for a big minus is that he lack of ED:

Paladins have crazy DPS right now-SWF pally can both push 500 MP sustainably, and shoot up way higher than that. TWF pally is one of the better non shifter DPS in the game, and brings way more utility with it. KoTC is a very very good tree already.

IMO, paladins could use a slight HP buff or an improvement to SacDef capstone, but those aren’t really melee considerations.

 

[Thulsadoom]

The player numbers are so low not because of R10 or even melees being bad. Let me give you a few points:

1) 150+ past lives with no catch-up mechanics, requiring years of farming XP or spending around 40,000$ on Ottos boxes.
2) Outside of coupon code, spending of 1000$ to buy all expansions and adventure packs.
3) Lack of end-game - where exactly are players going with all those past lives?
4) Dilution of DnD mechanics and existance of arbitarty systems such as PRR, MRR, Melee power, Spell power.
5) Non-availability of cross-server LFMs, Auction houses and Shard exchanges
6) Game population split further into heroic TR, epic TR and iconic TRs. Legendary TR to split player base even further, leaving new players staring at zero LFMs in their level range.
7) Zero investment from EG7 since acquisition in actual game systems, server infrastructure and development team - where is all my money going?

I can go on and on, you get the point by now. Most of the veterans/whales are dead or moved on to other games, with absolutely no new blood "sticking around" to replace them. Those of us left are getting older by year and wont be here soon.

Paladins have crazy DPS right now-SWF pally can both push 500 MP sustainably, and shoot up way higher than that. TWF pally is one of the better non shifter DPS in the game, and brings way more utility with it. KoTC is a very very good tree already.

IMO, paladins could use a slight HP buff or an improvement to SacDef capstone, but those aren’t really melee considerations.

Who wants to run around with a single weapon like that animation? It looks horrid.

 

[Thulsadoom]

if we count 18/1/1 (which we probably should), and 15/5 (with ranger as 5 with t5 tempest, which I understand is arguable), tempest is pretty darn good. One of the only top tier DPS melee that gets AoE as well!

What server do you play on? I'm on Khyber we don't see any tempest rangers at cap. Five levels of ranger doesn't make a ranger in my opinion.

 

[KylerrTheMajty]

Just Dev's hate melee and about 70% players are casters or range so melee are in deep swamp

 

[Br4d]

I agree with the responses to my post above.

I do think that a point that is missed is that due to the AoE meta and all the power creep group roles have been severely damaged.

There's no agreed upon way for most archetypes to play at this point and that makes groups the equivalent of flaming furry freaks doing their own thing very effectively for those that are on meta.

This is extraordinarily disorienting for newer players and more casual players who wind up in the groups feeling like they are on a 5 minute tour of the instance with no freaking idea what is going on most of the time.

There's no catchup mechanism in general but this is magnified in every instance as most people can't catch up to the FFF's speeding through the dungeon ahead of them.

This is a phenomenon that does damage to DDO every day, because it is effectively anti-social while masquerading as a social endeavor. The effects are catastrophic over time for retention of players however they play out in a slow regression that periodically spikes when players are suddenly offered a better play experience somewhere else.

The HC leagues temporarily revive the player base because the flaming furry freak effect suddenly dissolves to almost nothing for a month or two.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

I agree with the responses to my post above.

I do think that a point that is missed is that due to the AoE meta and all the power creep group roles have been severely damaged.

There's no agreed upon way for most archetypes to play at this point and that makes groups the equivalent of flaming furry freaks doing their own thing very effectively for those that are on meta.

This is extraordinarily disorienting for newer players and more casual players who wind up in the groups feeling like they are on a 5 minute tour of the instance with no freaking idea what is going on most of the time.

There's no catchup mechanism in general but this is magnified in every instance as most people can't catch up to the FFF's speeding through the dungeon ahead of them.

This is a phenomenon that does damage to DDO every day, because it is effectively anti-social while masquerading as a social endeavor. The effects are catastrophic over time for retention of players however they play out in a slow regression that periodically spikes when players are suddenly offered a better play experience somewhere else.

The HC leagues temporarily revive the player base because the flaming furry freak effect suddenly dissolves to almost nothing for a month or two.

I tend to agree, at least partially.

I wonder if a first/2nd life only lfm system could help with new player retention. (with opt out of course)

 

[Br4d]

I tend to agree, at least partially.

I wonder if a first/2nd life only lfm system could help with new player retention. (with opt out of course)

That's my solution with the idea of a new player server that is also available to more casual vets.

 

[Kimbere]

Who said I dont do well? And why does this turn out into a harassment thread?

Do you normally go starting threads claiming something is weak and needs to be buffed when you already do well with it? Are you just trolling?

Do you also normally try to turn a simple joke meme into harassment? Sad, sad days we live in when people can't even chuckle at a bad meme.

/eyeroll

 

[Dude]

That's my solution with the idea of a new player server that is also available to more casual vets.

I think part of the problem of new player retention is the state of melee classes. In most games melee are sort of the easy way to try a game out. When I first started the game I rolled a human fighter thinking it would be a good way to get to know the game. At character creation, fighters are listed as "Easy" in terms of solo ability, so this made sense. It was terrible. I then tried human Paladin because the character creation screen says they are "Very Easy" in terms of solo ability. I lasted a bit longer, but it was still terrible.

It wasn't until I posted my experience on the old forums that someone told me that I should really be going ranged instead of melee. C-Dog suggested that I try a Rogue ranged build using Inquisitive. That didn't make sense to me because Rogues are listed as being "Challenging" in terms of solo ability, but I tried it. All of a sudden, I was completing dungeons, killing all sorts of monsters, and not being killed. Ranged being more DPS than melee is pretty common in gaming. Ranged being more survivable is not.

I don't know what melee or any other class looks like for end game, R10, or raiding, but melee sucks for a new player experience.

 

[Ddealti]

Laws of physics. Ranged comes with the price of transport. Melee always offered greater firepower, on the spot.

the amount of power I can put into a spear charge, with my weight behind it, vs. the amount of power left in a thrown spear, at 30 yards, is greater.

My plane can't carry as many men, as a freight train can, to the front.

Physical Ranged does less damage than a THF Cleave. Trade off is the defensive advantage of being at range.

If there was a transport cost with Mana, spells at distance would be exponentially less powerful than a spell that occurs close to the caster. Fire Shield should melt ****, while a Fireball, at range does much less. So, perhaps caster ranged, should function similarly to physical ranged.

No idea how this would influence the game, but it would provide some real world consistency to the situation.

 

[Thulsadoom]

Do you normally go starting threads claiming something is weak and needs to be buffed when you already do well with it? Are you just trolling?

Do you also normally try to turn a simple joke meme into harassment? Sad, sad days we live in when people can't even chuckle at a bad meme.

/eyeroll

I'm not trolling at all. Its sad to see in quests when you walk into a room and everything dies in one second from a fireball and your the melee and just watch room after room. Every class enhancement tree should be good instead of what is happening now. When the cap was level 10 we didn't have these problems just to compare.

 

[Col Kurtz]

people familiar with D&D think casters will be limited to their 3 spells a day like pen n paper, and ranged is usually pretty difficult in pnp without some melee tank around to protect you, thieves are fodder at low lvl's on dice rolling tables

*so naturally new players try melee 1st...it's really good in other games like diablo

...then they find out its not a great choice to start with in DDO. Hence >all the melee need buff threads

vets know melee "CAN" be good, with some work and practice...these threads are not aimed at end game characters.

maybe we will all get along if everyone realizes the perspective

 

[Br4d]

However a well-built melee with some healing or other HP recovery method built-in is the strongest early levels build in the game. A 2HF Barbarian is basically unkillable as long as you can move ok in combat and keep pushing the whack-whack-whack buttons.

Then at level 5 or 6 other builds catch up and by level 8 or 9 they're mostly ahead and by 13 it's definitely ahead.

 

[Thulsadoom]

I agree with the responses to my post above.

I do think that a point that is missed is that due to the AoE meta and all the power creep group roles have been severely damaged.

There's no agreed upon way for most archetypes to play at this point and that makes groups the equivalent of flaming furry freaks doing their own thing very effectively for those that are on meta.

This is extraordinarily disorienting for newer players and more casual players who wind up in the groups feeling like they are on a 5 minute tour of the instance with no freaking idea what is going on most of the time.

There's no catchup mechanism in general but this is magnified in every instance as most people can't catch up to the FFF's speeding through the dungeon ahead of them.

This is a phenomenon that does damage to DDO every day, because it is effectively anti-social while masquerading as a social endeavor. The effects are catastrophic over time for retention of players however they play out in a slow regression that periodically spikes when players are suddenly offered a better play experience somewhere else.

The HC leagues temporarily revive the player base because the flaming furry freak effect suddenly dissolves to almost nothing for a month or two.

yeah its all of AOE meta, love this post.

 

[Thulsadoom]

people familiar with D&D think casters will be limited to their 3 spells a day like pen n paper, and ranged is usually pretty difficult in pnp without some melee tank around to protect you, thieves are fodder at low lvl's on dice rolling tables

*so naturally new players try melee 1st...it's really good in other games like diablo

...then they find out its not a great choice to start with in DDO. Hence >all the melee need buff threads

vets know melee "CAN" be good, with some work and practice...these threads are not aimed at end game characters.

maybe we will all get along if everyone realizes the perspective

This is what I am talking about, thank you for the post

 

[Monkey_Archer]

I think part of the problem of new player retention is the state of melee classes. In most games melee are sort of the easy way to try a game out. When I first started the game I rolled a human fighter thinking it would be a good way to get to know the game. At character creation, fighters are listed as "Easy" in terms of solo ability, so this made sense. It was terrible. I then tried human Paladin because the character creation screen says they are "Very Easy" in terms of solo ability. I lasted a bit longer, but it was still terrible.

All the "guidance" on the character creation screens and pre-planned builds are useless. It should all be removed to stop confusing new players.

I propose that next hardcore season, the top builds of each class become the new default build paths.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Who wants to run around with a single weapon like that animation? It looks horrid.

Might be the only time I’ve seen someone ask for a cosmetic buff to fix a power disparity… honestly, sure! Let’s fix that animation! Not sure it’s the best use of dev time, but I wouldn’t object TWF pally is better DPS, though, it’s just slightly lower MP than SWF.

What server do you play on? I'm on Khyber we don't see any tempest rangers at cap. Five levels of ranger doesn't make a ranger in my opinion.

Argo-they’re not as common as shifters, but when good players play them, they’re extremely strong.

I’m mostly confused about what buff you’re looking for melees-melee damage numbers are already super far ahead of casters, from 1-7 and 15-20 melees are way better than casters for new players leveling, from 1-4 melees are always better than casters leveling, etc. I can’t think of any way to fix the inherent reason melees will always be worse at leveling than casters for vets (you have to run to the mobs to kill them, which is less efficient), but …that seems pretty fine that there’s an optimal efficiency leveling style as long as all styles are viable. The one thing that I think feels a little bad is that it’s pretty routine to level on r4-r6 soloish on a caster through epics, and doing that on a melee is way harder. I wouldn’t mind a slight HP bump for melees in that level range-maybe make the perfect feat give an extra 25% combat style bonus?

 

[Kimbere]

I'm not trolling at all. Its sad to see in quests when you walk into a room and everything dies in one second from a fireball and your the melee and just watch room after room. Every class enhancement tree should be good instead of what is happening now. When the cap was level 10 we didn't have these problems just to compare.

Weird. I'm on my 5th or maybe 6th consecutive melee DPS live currently and I don't have those problems. Maybe you need to up the difficulty to where your casters aren't one-shotting everything?

I run low to mid reaper difficulty while leveling the melee toon up and run 10-skull at cap. Melee do just fine.